[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":30058},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fnews-ai-33-26-anthropic-und-eu-ai-act-spotify-backstage-und-xirp-gpt-5-6-preise-und-updates-openai-und-hugging-face-incident-talk":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":66,"speakerCount":67,"relatedPodcasts":68,"transcript":69},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":14,"cover_image":15,"banner_image":12,"speakers":27,"members":28,"picks_of_the_day":62,"tags":63,"tagsPrepared":64,"speakersPrepared":65},"36c4c345-a949-485f-9955-f20c15b0aee5","2026-08-13T04:00:00.000Z","news","AI 33\u002F26","Anthropic und EU AI Act \u002F\u002F Spotify Backstage und Xirp \u002F\u002F GPT-5.6 Preise und Updates \u002F\u002F OpenAI und Hugging Face Incident-Talk","news-ai-33-26-anthropic-und-eu-ai-act-spotify-backstage-und-xirp-gpt-5-6-preise-und-updates-openai-und-hugging-face-incident-talk","\u003Cp>Diese Woche geht’s um vier Themen: neue Preise und einen kostenlosen Unlimited-Zugang bei ChatGPT, die EU-Kennzeichnungspflicht für AI-Inhalte und was Anthropic damit zu tun hat, ein neues Agent-Tool von Spotify names Xirp und einen Nachtrag zum Hugging-Face-Vorfall von der Black-Hat-Konferenz. Im Detail:\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Bei ChatGPT hat sich am Preisgefüge einiges getan: Das günstigste Modell der GPT-5.6-Reihe, Luna, ist über die API jetzt rund 80 % billiger und kostet nur noch 0,20 US-Dollar pro Million Input- und 1,20 US-Dollar pro Million Output-Token. \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fappwrite.io\u002Fblog\u002Fpost\u002Fwhat-gpt-56-sols-chatgpt-update-means-for-developers\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Luna ist außerdem das neue Standardmodell für ChatGPT-Nutzer:innen, die das LLM kostenfrei nutzen, inklusive unbegrenzter Textchats.\u003C\u002Fa>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.golem.de\u002Fnews\u002Fanthropic-claude-markiert-alles-ki-generierte-2608-211787.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Anthropic markiert Claude-Texte künftig mit unsichtbaren Wasserzeichen\u003C\u002Fa>, Bilder und Dateien mit C2PA-Metadaten. Jan und Dennis diskutieren, wie zuverlässig und aussagekräftig das eigentlich ist. Denn ein Wasserzeichen zeigt nur, dass AI beteiligt war, nicht wie stark. Über Screenshots oder starke Bearbeitung lässt es sich zudem leicht wieder verlieren.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fxirp.spotify.com\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify hat mit Xirp ein neues Tool veröffentlicht, das in die Kategorie Agent-Orchestrierung fällt.\u003C\u002Fa> Ähnlich wie Conductor oder Superset hilft es dabei, mehrere Coding-Agent-Sessions parallel zu verwalten. Der eigentliche Clou liegt für Jan in der Anbindung an Spotifys eigenes Ökosystem aus Backstage und Portal: Xirp bringt den Agents automatisch Kontext aus dem internen Software-Katalog mit und spielt Wissen aus abgeschlossenen Sessions wieder zurück.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zum Schluss gibt’s noch einen Nachtrag zum Hugging-Face-Vorfall: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=87DyyMV0kCY\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Auf der Black-Hat-Konferenz in Las Vegas haben die beiden OpenAI-Engineers Eric Wallace und Michael Dalton in einem sehr zugänglichen Talk\u003C\u002Fa> aufgedeckt, wie ihre Trainings-Agents über eine gekaperte interne Package-Registry ein eigenes Message-Board aufgebaut haben, an dem am Ende hunderte Nachrichten von Agents gleichzeitig reinkamen. Jan nimmt uns mit durch die verrücktesten Momente, von der Nachricht „holy shit, we’re admin“ bis zur kurzen Paranoia-Phase, in der die Agents ihre Kommunikation plötzlich verschlüsseln wollten. Sein Fazit: Wer öfter mal Dependabot & Co. anwerfen lässt, patcht jetzt am besten noch etwas konsequenter.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19638004-news-ai-33-26-anthropic-und-eu-ai-act-spotify-backstage-und-xirp-gpt-5-6-preise-und-updates-openai-und-hugging-face-incident-talk.mp3","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=MyTYoRWVkk0",{"id":16,"title":17,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":18,"filename_download":19,"metadata":20,"type":21,"filesize":22,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":23,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":25,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"1071070c-2aad-4ec8-8627-6f265b1cccc4","AI News Asset 33","1071070c-2aad-4ec8-8627-6f265b1cccc4.jpg","AI News-Asset 33.jpg",{},"image\u002Fjpeg","1582234","2026-08-12T12:07:23.947Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-08-12T12:07:23.944Z",1500,[],[29,45],{"member":30},{"id":31,"first_name":32,"last_name":33,"occupation":34,"description":35,"normal_image":36},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":37,"title":38,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":39,"filename_download":40,"metadata":12,"type":21,"filesize":41,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":42,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":43,"folder":12,"width":44,"height":44,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",1024,{"member":46},{"id":47,"first_name":48,"last_name":49,"occupation":50,"description":51,"normal_image":52},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":53,"title":54,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":55,"filename_download":56,"metadata":57,"type":21,"filesize":58,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":59,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":60,"uploaded_on":61,"folder":12,"width":44,"height":44,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",[],[],[],[],482,205,[],{"id":70,"service":71,"supported_features":72,"speakers":75,"raw_response":81},"a90e9702-4877-47a8-ac45-164b4837bc57","deepgram",[73,74],"timestamps","diarization",[76,78],{"identifier":77,"name":32},"0",{"identifier":79,"name":80},"1","Jan",{"metadata":82,"results":96},{"transaction_key":83,"request_id":84,"sha256":85,"created":86,"duration":87,"channels":88,"models":89,"model_info":91},"deprecated","019ff6d3-c084-7bf3-9240-107db0585a93","a8d13de759302a75b5665c2b13c8f64948dfc15c2a6b95741e64901ea4125fa7","2026-08-12T16:35:04.355Z",2444.6611,1,[90],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":92},{"name":93,"version":94,"arch":95},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":97,"utterances":20860},[98],{"alternatives":99},[100],{"transcript":101,"confidence":102,"words":103,"paragraphs":19543},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu den neuen AI News 33 26 der Programmier war. Schön, dass ihr alle dabei seid. Wir sprechen heute über Preisänderungen bei ChatGPT. Dann eine Pflicht generierte Texte und Bilder von AI zu markieren, der nachkommt. Spotify hat was mit AI veröffentlicht und zwar ein Tool, wo wir uns noch fair tun, das auszusprechen. Vielleicht heißt es. Ja, also es wird auf jeden Fall XIRP geschrieben. Und dann gibt's noch 'n kleinen Nachtrag zu dem und, wo wo, da ein bisschen Hacking betrieben wurde, wo's noch mal einen größeren Vortrag gab, wie's dazu kam, wo wir noch mal 'n paar Insights dazu haben. Mein Name ist Dennis Becker und mit mir im Studio Nicht im Studio, aber trotzdem mit dabei. Jan Gregor Ingetriebel, moin moin. War unser virtuelles Studio hier. Ritual Studio. In dem Du mit dabei bist. Genau. Philipp wegen Terminkollidierung hatte nicht dabei. Fabi wegen, weiß ich gar nicht, Einschulung, glaub ich, ne. Also Fabi Nee, Einschulung war gestern. Ich glaub, Fabi hat einfach keine Lust heute. Fabi hat, nein. Das gehört sich das denn an. Gestern hätt es eigentlich die Aufnahme und heute kann er natürlich nicht, weil Ja. Viel zu tun. Ja, gefühlt, ich war jetzt 3 Wochen im Urlaub und deswegen auch die letzten AI News nicht dabei. Und natürlich ist immer so, wenn man, da ich hab auch noch zusätzlich gemacht. Das heißt, ich hab 3 Wochen nicht in mein Handy geguckt, was natürlich an KI Zeiten eine 1 Ewigkeit ist. Und dann brauch ich am Montag erst mal 'n bisschen, zu gucken, was sind denn eigentlich die User? Was passiert so in den letzten 3 Wochen wieder an neuen Modellen? Aber ich glaub, Du hast gute 3 Wochen erwischt, oder? Also wenn man mal so die letzten 12 Monate anguckt, waren das jetzt, glaub ich, ruhige 3 Wochen in der Summe. Ja. Aber ich mein, da gab's schon diese Open Source Modelle, die neu sind. Es gab Opus 5, so. Ah. Warte, Obus 4 8. Also. Ja. Ja, das ist für mich schon wieder son paar Folgen her und Du hast recht genug alles in der Zeit, ja. Also ist ja auch. Oder dass dass nichts passiert ist so in der Zeit. Du Du Bayer, Du hast, habt ihr jetzt eigentlich schon Sommerferien in Bayern? Jetzt, hier sind jetzt auch Sommerferien, die ersten anderthalb Wochen jetzt quasi. Okay. Ja. Wir haben noch haben noch 'n bisschen, sind ja immer die Letzten. Ja. Findest Du das gut? Ach ja. Also ich glaub, diese Begründung von Anno dazu mal, ne, dass ja die Kinder hier irgendwie im Sommer helfen müssen, auch in dieser ganzen Landwirtschaft und so, das taugt natürlich vorne und hinten nicht Aber das ist natürlich schon cool, so sehr antizyklisch Ferien zu haben irgendwie. Ja. Ja. Das stimmt. Und grade auch jetzt, wo die die Sommer in Deutschland ja tendenziell, also auch wenn sie manchmal zu heiß sind, aber doch ja irgendwie cool werden, so, das Positive am Klimawandel mal mitzunehmen, ist natürlich cool, quasi die Ferien im August, September zu haben, weil man dann quasi, wenn's hier dann wirklich wieder 'n Kühler, wird, dann noch mal irgendwie wegern woanders hin und noch mal 'n bisschen mehr Sonne mitnehmen. Das ist natürlich auch ganz praktisch. Ja, das stimmt. Das stimmt. Ja, interessant. Aber wenn man dann, ist das eigentlich so, da Frankfurt kann man wahrscheinlich einigermaßen okay fliegen dann, ne. Zumindest war so dieser, ist ja dieser Horizont, wo so alles extrem teuer ist. So hatt ich in Frankfurt das Gefühl, ist eher so auf 6 bis 8 Wochen terminiert jetzt nicht so, wenn die Bayern noch Urlaub haben. Nö, nö. Also wir wir fliegen jetzt ja auch Schweinerei. Wenn wir nach Kalifornien fliegen, auch ab Frankfurt und ich glaube, es war, also, ne, schon verhältnismäßig teuer natürlich, aber es war bei Weitem nicht mehr dieser Sommerferienaufpreis, den man sonst irgendwie so zahlt. Okay. Sehr gut. Gut, die EU hat ja alle möglichen Regelungen rund AI auch irgendwann mal auf den Weg gebracht. Und eine davon ist, dass man eigentlich kennzeichnen muss, wenn KI generierte Inhalte irgendwo erstellt wurden. Und Anthropic ist, glaub ich, jetzt so die eine der ersten Großen, die diesem AI Act ein bisschen stärker nachkommen und dann gesagt haben, ja, Sie unterzeichnen diese EU KI Verordnung und verpflichten sich eben, dass die Dinge markiert werden. Und das funktioniert dann eben für eigentlich alle Medienarten, also und Videos, Bilder und auch Text. Ich hab gar nicht leider technisch weiter reingeguckt, wie das mit dem Text funktioniert, aber das sind praktisch so unsichtbare Wasserzeichen, die von Maschinen dann trotzdem gelesen werden können und auch ein zumindest simples Kopieren, Überleben. Ich glaub, also wenn man's drauf anlegt, findet man bei allen Varianten Wege, diese Wasserzeichen auch zu entfernen, ja, sei es von den Bildern, wo's in irgendwelchen Metatext drinsteht. Aber sagen wir mal, für den Otto Normalverbraucher ist es jetzt nicht so einfach, das alles auszumachen. Das heißt, auch wenn 'n Bild irgendwie geschnitten wird und solche Sachen, bleiben diese Metadaten meist auch lesbar, sodass man dann eben weiß, dass dieser Inhalt davon KI generiert wird. Weiß nicht, ob ihr, wenn ihr auf LinkedIn das mal gesehen habt, das gibt's schon jetzt länger, ich glaub 'n paar Monate. Aber wenn da KI generierte Bilder hochgeladen werden und die eben auch getagt sind, dann ist da so ein kleines Icon, was einen darauf hinweist. Und das ist uns auch besonders aufgefallen, weil wir beispielsweise unsere Cover auch mit KI generieren, die eigentlich nicht, also nicht viel machen außer 'n Text ersetzen. Es ist irgendwie 'n wie früher ein normaler Bild, Bearbeitungsflow. Aber trotzdem kriegen wir dadurch dieses Label dort. Oder ist das mittlerweile Also nicht nicht alle Bilder. Also wer jetzt quasi einmal unseren LinkedIn Feed anguckt und sich wundert, warum es bei manchen Podcast Covern nicht dabei ist und denkt, wir haben irgendwie die krasse KI Erkennung von LinkedIn ausgehebelt. Das ist leider nicht so. Wir haben halt nur manchmal Figma am Start und dann machen wir das quasi von selbst. Und manchmal erzeugt das eben Was ist das? German Eye hast Du da genommen, gell? Nanobanada macht das. Ja. Ja. Genau. Ja, aber Bildern gibt's es ja schon länger. Also ich glaub, sowohl OpenAI als auch Google haben ja so mit synd ID so was schon am Start, wo quasi sowohl auf Metadatenebene als auch in son Pixelgrundrauschen in dem Bild quasi das wird. Ich hab auch versucht rauszufinden, wie die das jetzt bei Texten machen und das geht wohl irgendwie über die Token Reihenfolge und so. Son bisschen bisschen spannend. Ich find's ganz cool, den Disclaimer, den sie irgendwie dran gepackt haben, zu sagen, so na ja, das Einzige, was wir damit quasi sagen können, ist, dass halt KI irgendwie involviert war. Aber ob dieser Text jetzt quasi vollkommen von KI generiert ist oder ob jemand jetzt nur noch mal so, ne, weiß nicht, Grammatik hat drüberfliegen lassen oder vielleicht nur eine Übersetzung davon irgendwie erzeugt hat oder so was, das lässt sich halt irgendwie so im Nachhinein dann quasi nicht mehr feststellen. Und das ist, glaub ich, son son schwieriger Punkt, ja? Genauso wie Du natürlich sagen kannst, na gut, wenn ich mir den den KI Textentwurf in meinem Chatfenster hier nehme und den händisch irgendwie grob abtippe, ah, dann geht auch wieder son bisschen was lost and Translation. Also so wirklich eindeutig ist dieser Marker noch nicht, aber natürlich trotzdem interessant, dass sie's wenigstens versuchen, ne, da irgendwas zu machen. Ich mein, das ist ja irgendwie das, was vorher auch da war, oder? Ich mein, Copyright ist halt nicht so einfach und ja, Gottes braucht ja auch schon irgendwelche Sachen. Kopieren und aber wenn jetzt so, ja. Deswegen mein ich halt, ne. Im Standardfall ist es dann vielleicht bis einfacher, wir anzeigen und sagen, hey, hier war AI mit drin. Vielleicht für Suchmaschinen, für Indexen und so weiter. Ist irgendwie auch relevant so, die irgendwelche Wissenssachen aufbauen, einfach da schnell entscheiden zu können, ne, ist das jetzt menschlicher Content oder ist das grundsätzlich der Ursprung von KI? Denke, dass das völlig auch so die Mithintergründe sind, warum man das einführt. Ich hoffe, mein Social Media Feed wird jetzt wieder 'n bisschen aufgeräumter und dieser ganze KI Content wird vielleicht son bisschen down gerankt, aber weiß nicht, ob's dazu genutzt wird am Ende des Tages. Wenn die Leute den Content genießen und damit interagieren, dann hat er ja auch eine Berechtigung, ne? Ja, das ist ja auch Ja, fair. Also ist ja, ne, egal ob jetzt bei Text oder bei Bildern oder Videos, so mit Veo, ne, wenn's irgendwie lustig und spaßig ist, alles cool. Aber also ich glaube, es gibt schon Social Media Konsumenten, die halt nicht unbedingt jetzt nur wegen der der Contentqualität da irgendwie hinwollen, ja, weil sie sich berieseln lassen wollen, sondern weil sie halt 'n sehr direkten Draht zu verschiedenen Menschen suchen, entweder in 'nem geschäftlich Work Kontext oder persönlich oder so, ja. Und da kann ich mir schon vorstellen, dass Leute sagen würden, wenn sie die Wahl hätten zu filtern, ne, will ich irgendwie AI Content ganz raus oder runtergerankt oder keine Ahnung, was haben sich da wahrscheinlich vielleicht auch gegenentscheiden würden. So. Aber am Ende hast Du recht, in der Aufmerksamkeitsökonomie zählt nur, wo draufgeklickt wird. Und wenn AI zurückgeklickt wird, dann sind die coolen Katzenvideos halt immer noch gut, ja? Egal, ob sie von Hand oder AI gemacht sind. Ja. Ja. Chip, Chip. Wie würdest Du, was hast Du mit Chip? Bei Chip hab ich da, also so wie dieses Was ist das ist das wie wie englischen Vögel machen? Nee, ne? Ja, so so hab ich mir das nämlich auch hergeleitet, zum Okay. So Vogelgezwitscher und es wird ja XIRP, also FIRP irgendwie auf Deutsch geschrieben. Und zwar ist das ein 1 neues Tool von Spotify. Ich muss mich jetzt schon dafür entschuldigen, wenn ich zwischendrin dreimal Shopify sag oder so, dann ist das frühe Prägung und schlägt sich manchmal wieder durch. Die haben ein Tool veröffentlicht und was das genau ist, schauen wir uns gleich an. Das fällt in diese Kategorie von, ja, also Dennis ist ja 'n großer Kontakteuser. Wir haben hier in der Firma auch noch Leute, die Superset und so was benutzen. Für mich fällt das alles so in diese Kategorie Meta Harness und irgendwie Agent Orchestration und so was. Also Tools, die dir quasi helfen, mehrere Sessions deines Coding Agents irgendwie parallel auf demselben Projekt zu betreiben und im Idealfall noch son bisschen Mehrwert on top liefern, ne. Damit's jetzt nicht nur son Terminal Multiplexer ist mit irgendwie, Du hast dir 20 Sessions gleichzeitig auf, sondern hilft dir vielleicht 'n bisschen noch deine Workflows zu automatisieren, bisschen Überblick darüber zu behalten, welcher Agent grade woran arbeitet, dein deinen Kontext 'n bisschen mit zu managen und so was alles. Also ich glaube, das, was so Leute immer auch mal mehr so als Agentic IDEs vielleicht auch bezeichnen. Ja, ich weiß nicht, ob's da son Einbeuding schon durchgesetzt hat. Egal, auf alle Fälle in diese Kategorie soll auch x-Chiff fallen. Und warum sie das machen, da muss man vielleicht, bevor wir über das Tool selbst sprechen, noch mal son halben Schritt zurückgehen. Spotify ist ja eigentlich son Musikstreamingdienst und jetzt könnte man sich fragen, warum bauen die überhaupt Developer Tools und warum veröffentlichen die das überhaupt? Also ist keine Ahnung, wenn die das hier für intern irgendwie bauen, aber es muss ja nicht alles nach außen getragen werden. Spotify hat vor mehreren Jahren schon mal ein 1 Tool, ein Framework veröffentlicht, das Backstage heißt. Und Backstage war so ihr internes Tool, 'n Developer Plattform Dashboards quasi zu bauen. Also Du willst irgendwie deinen deinen Microservice deploylen, Du willst irgendwie sehen, wie der im Netzwerk bei dir eingebunden ist. Du willst son bisschen Insights haben, Du willst 'n bisschen auf Servability haben, Du willst deployment managen können et cetera et cetera. Das haben sie damit so alles gemacht, weil Spotify ja schon ganz früh dieses so kleine agile unabhängige Teams, dieses Squads und Tribes Thema irgendwie groß gemacht hat. Und da wars natürlich auch erforderlich ne, also Dennis wie bei uns auch so, Und da muss halt den Leuten auch irgendwie Tools dafür an die Hand geben so. Und da kommt quasi Backstage Share. Ich hab das selber noch nie benutzt, aber ich hab, als ich bisschen Research für die Folge gemacht hab, gesehen, dass je nachdem, wen man so fragt, die wohl de facto damit Marktführer in diesem Space sind. Also Marktführer bei 'nem Open Source Tool. Also die meisten, die ähnliches Streaming aufbauen wollen, die nutzen dann eben entsprechend Backstage. Das fand natürlich Spotify irgendwie ganz cool, hat gesagt, hey, da kann man doch 'n kommerzielles Produkt irgendwie draus machen. Wenn Du dein Developer Plattform Portal Dings eben nicht selber hosten, managen, betreiben willst, sondern nur die Infrastruktur dafür mitbringst, dann können wir dir quasi das Tooling drumherum anbieten und haben ein Produkt heraus gemacht, das Portal heißt. Portal ist eben dann dein Management für deine Infrastruktur, deine interne Infrastruktur und das ist im Prinzip die kommerzielle Variante vom Backstage. So, das nur so als einmal als Disclaimer vorab. Wie fällt jetzt Chip da rein? Kann ich ganz kurz noch fragen, weil Du hast so kommerzielles Produkt gemacht, das kostet Geld? Ja. Das ist meistens so die Vorstellung von kommerziell. Und das ist wohl auch irgendwie recht erfolgreich. Also natürlich, ne, bei bei Spotify intern wird das jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n riesen Revenue sharben, weil sie immer noch den allergrößten Teil mit mit Musik verdienen. Aber es ist wohl immerhin so erfolgreich, als dass es sich selbst trägt. Also Du könntest das quasi als eigenes Produkt ausgründen und das würde gut funktionieren, ne. Und was Du dir was Portal halt auch kann, ist so Metawissen, diese Produkte halt anzuhäufen, ne. Wer hat das gebaut? Was sind da so für Architecture Decitions reingeflossen? Wie fügt sich das in deine gesamte Systemlandschaft irgendwie ein et cetera et cetera? Und das ist eben der Punkt, wo sie mit Chirp andocken wollen, ja? Sagen, okay, wenn Du jetzt quasi dein Projekt mit Chip baust, ja, was wie gesagt erst mal wie Contactor und Superset einfach nur deinen deinen Agent Harness managt für dich, ja, können sie aber das Wissen aus Portal Schrägstrich Backstage anzapfen und haben halt gleichzeitig noch superviel Kontext zu diesem Projekt, an dem grade gearbeitet wird. Historisch, infrastrukturell, alles, was eben so über die Jahre dazu angehäuft ist. Und es gibt gleichzeitig noch 'n Rückkanal. Wenn Du also mit Chip quasi Feature baust und mit deinem Agent darüber sprichst und Fragen beantwortest und diskutierst, sorgt Chip dafür, dass das Wissen quasi auch wieder zurück zu Portal Schrägstrich Backstage fließt. Das fand ich eigentlich 'n ganz spannendes Feature, weil das ist ja was, was wir uns intern hier auch schon in verschiedenen Teams grade verschieden lösen, ja? Es gibt Leute, die bauen da so Knowledge Basers in den Repositories auf. Es gibt Leute, die bauen da irgendwie Obsidian Walls auf. Es gibt, Fabi hat ja schon mal hier darüber gesprochen, wie sie so, wie hieß dieses Tool auf Astro aufbauend, sone Dokumentation, die quasi parallel deploy wird zu zu der Anwendung, ne. Also ich glaube, das Problem ist einfach real so. In dem Moment, wo Du anfängst mit irgendwie immer mehr Code und immer mehr Features zu schippen, musst Du auch immer mehr Kontext schaffen, aktualisieren, abrufbar haben et cetera et cetera. Und wenn das quasi eine Lücke ist, in die sie reinspringen wollen, kann ich mir schon vorstellen, dass das sehr gut funktioniert. Ich hab mir das vorhin mal runtergeladen und einfach mal installiert. Ich hab natürlich jetzt keinen keinen Portal Account beziehungsweise keine große Infrastruktur in Portal, mit der ich das hätte testen können. Dementsprechend verhält sich für mich Chip, was erst mal so kostenlos in der Nutzung ist, erst mal in Anführungszeichen nur so wie all diese anderen Tools eben auch, ja? Wie Kontakte, wie Superset. Du machst das auf, Du kannst sagen, will ich das mit Cloud Code nutzen, will ich's mit Codecs nutzen, will ich's mit Germany nutzen, wie auch immer. Und dann kannst Du quasi in verschiedenen parallel in deinen Sessions arbeiten, Du hast diese Übersicht von verschiedenen Agenten, die grade an verschiedenen Tasks Also das ist ja mittlerweile auch eine Experience, die man kennt so. Ja, also da da ist, glaub ich, nicht mehr so viel revolutionär dran. Glaub, Ihr großer Punkt ist da tatsächlich eher zu sagen, okay, wir binden das eben in dieses andere Ökosystem, was wir mit Backstage und Portals schon haben, mit mit ein, so. Mhm. Ja, ist gut. Es war, find ich immer gut, wenn wir die News haben, die, wo ich denke, da sollten unsere Entwickler*innen mal zuhören, dass dann zu haben bekommen. Weil jetzt gar nicht, ich hab auch mitbekommen, also ein Team tatsächlich, sie hatte sich Backstage von 2 3 angeguckt und rausgesucht. Aber ich glaub nur nicht, dass sie die Iteration von bekommen hab. Aber Also interessanterweise, weil Du sagst, bei uns haben sich Leute Backstage angeguckt. Als ich da jetzt so meine Research gemacht hab, hab ich verschiedene, wie sagt man, Testimonials, Case Studies, wie auch immer gelesen zu Backstage. Und die haben eigentlich alle gesagt so, oh, Du willst Backstage nicht selber aufsetzen. Also Portal macht quasi schon Sinn, weil dieses Framework so komplex und mächtig ist, dass es sich eigentlich nicht lohnt, wenn Du nicht 'n eigenes Plattform Engineering Team hast. Also wenn Spotify es für sich selbst macht, voll okay, ja. Aber ich glaube jetzt in unserem Case, wo hier Teams aus 'ner Handvoll Entwickler irgendwie an einem Produkt arbeiten, lohnt es sich, glaube ich, nicht, dass irgendjemand davon sich Backstage anguckt. Ich glaube, wir wären dann eher so der Use Case für, wir kaufen das vielleicht über Portal oder so was ein. Das der eine Case Study, den ich hatte, der spricht davon, wenn Du es dir nicht leisten kannst, Schrägstrich willst, mindestens 2 bis 3 Leute dafür abzustellen, die sich nur dein Backstage Setup kümmern quasi, dann guck dir lieber mal Portal an. So. Also ne, wir, ich hab's auch nicht benutzt, aber das sind son paar Zahlen, die hab ich tatsächlich häufiger gefunden. Können wir vielleicht Haben wir irgendwas über das Pricing gesehen? Oder ist das noch alles so früh, dass es das noch nicht gibt? Von Chip? Ja, oder Portual gibt's schon länger oder wie ist das? Portual nutzt schon länger. Das Portpricing hab ich auch irgendwo drüber gestolpert, aber Chip ist erst mal kostenlos. Ja, weil bei Portal fänd ich zumindest hier aufm Handy nix auf die Schnelle. Ich gucke. Aber. Also er hat mich immer interessiert, wieso das wie das Modell ist. Also kostet das pro User, kostet das pro, keine Ahnung, wie sieht das Im Zweifelsfall ist das dieses typische, den Preis bekommst Du, wenn Du uns anrufst, Modell. Ja. Eher, kontextielles gibt es, das stimmt. Ja. Ich find auch tatsächlich kein 1 zu 1 Preis. Ja, ein Hinweis für größere Teams. Ja. Gut. Ich werd mir noch beide Fälle mal anschauen. Allein Chip, den dem dem oder dem Agent Hannes, Meta, Hannes, wie auch immer. Kontakte, Orchestrater bla. Fand ich ganz cool, es sieht auch ganz schön gemacht aus so. Also ich glaub, wer den wer wer Spotify als App kennt, also egal wie cool man das jetzt nativ oder nicht nativ findet, aber so UI und JX können die irgendwie, ne. Dann sind, glaub ich, die richtigen Engineering Leute für und sieht man auch in in Chip. Fühlt sich irgendwie cool an, wenn man's aufmacht schon. Okay. Chip Chip. Ist lustig, ne, wie die englischen Tiere manchmal anders machen. Es ist wirklich so, ist wirklich so. Ich hab das, neulich hab ich das hier versucht, meine Tochter zu erklären, ne, so. Weil im Deutschen macht ja, wie macht 'n Hund im Deutschen, Dennis? So, ja. Was? Eben ja eigentlich nicht. Ja, genau. Weil im Englischen macht er ja wuff, so, ne. I'm a wuff mit WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW web, ne. Ja. So, wär wie son w, so, ja. Und im Deutschen ist es entweder son so wow oder Wow. Oder keine Ahnung, ja. Ja. Und das ist ja eigentlich genau dasselbe Tier, aber wieso wie Du spricht das im Englischen anders? Aber mein Lieblingsbeispiel ist der Frosch. Weißt Du, wie Du machst die beiden Sprachen? Ein 1 Frosch quakt. Ja, genau. Es ist Quark im Deutschen und ist Also im Englischen macht der mir so. Genau, das ist. Und ich finde, das hört sich wirklich an wie Frosch. Gravit. Ja. Das ist richtig. Ich glaube, Froschquaken ist halt so, ist son son Verb, was gar nicht so klingt wie das Ja, aber auch im Comic steht ja Quark. Ja, okay, ich hab leider keine Froschcomings mehr gelesen, fällt mir auf. Aber ich werde das nachholen. Quark, Quark, Quark. Das ist eher eine Ente, die quakt. Das ist richtig. Und quakt ihr eigentlich auch? Ist das identisch? Ja, im Englischen quakt eine Ente natürlich, quakt ihr auch. Und im Deutschen auch? Man, im Deutschen echten Ohrschnitt. Na ja, also, na ja, im im Deutschen würdest Du ja, glaub ich, sagen, eine Ente schnattert, ne? So wie so wie Gänse auch schnattern. Ja, sie schnattert, ja. Aber wie würd es, also es gibt ja trotzdem auch die Lautsprecher dazu. Boah, keine Ahnung, jetzt bin ich raus. Oh. Sind wir auch, glaub ich, ganz ganz falsch arbeiten. Irgendwie krasser, also krasse Erkenntnis mit 38 grade, das Enden und Forschenden das leider hier ruhig machen. Also wenn wenn ich mir nachher die Analytics von dieser Folge irgendwie anguck, werd ich genau den DIP sehen, wo die läuft so, glaub ich, abspringen. Nein, das die meistgeteilte Stelle, denke ich. Ja, hör mal, weil's einfach 'n sehr breites Publikum anspricht. Ja. Gut, schnell zurück zu AI News und da haben wir noch Pricing Änderungen von ChatGPT, die wir, glaub ich, hier noch nicht besprochen haben. Und zwar für die 5 6 Reihe und vor allen Dingen bei Luna ist so der krasse Sprung, der noch mal 80 Prozent reduziert hat. Und wo man eigentlich auch sagen kann, er ist praktisch, also ist es jetzt kostenlos, wenn man das Chatinterface nutzt und zwar für Text. Mal so irgendwie auch noch mal, was er Schritt so ist, ne. Also finde ich, dass dass man so sagen könnte, okay, wir haben jetzt ein Modell, was doch vielleicht ist, so in den Kosten reduziert, dass die einen nicht sagen können, na egal wer, nutzt es einfach unlimitiert und unsere Infrastruktur hält das schon aus. Genau. Und 5, 6 Zoll hat auch noch mal inhaltlich ein gewisses Update bekommen. Und zwar nicht so sehr, was die angeht, sondern eher die Art, wie geantwortet wird. Also das heißt, dass es 'n bisschen fokussierter ist, dass es weniger, gut, das kann man jetzt sagen, ist auch Inhalt, weniger Fakten falsch oder weniger falsche Fakten teilt so rum. Genau. Und ja, tendenziell auch schneller einfach reagieren kann in einigen Fällen. Ist interessant, dass da irgendwie OpenAI und Netflix an denselben Problem kranken, ne. Also das war ja auch was, was so Opus 5 vorgeworfen wurde, sodass es wieder sehr ausschweifend und irgendwie geworden ist und seine Art zu antworten und im im Thinking halt irgendwie so sehr extensiv geworden ist, wo ein Tropic ja auch noch son bisschen nachsteuern will und auch mehr er offensichtlich ähnliche Probleme hat. Typity 5 6. Ja. Und dann auch wieder mehr Fehler irgendwann kommen, ne, weil sie halt die Modelle irgendwie dann doch so trainiert sind, eine Antwort zu haben am Ende. Und dann Ja. Bemühen sie sich halt, ihre Antwort zu finden und die ist halt dann nicht immer immer richtig. Genau. Nuna kostet jetzt, wenn man's über die AP nutzt, 20 Cent pro Million Info Tokens und ein Dollar 20 pro Million Output Tokens. Also einfach das in, was ist ungefähr bei O-Kurs und so die großen Wellen? So was wie 25 Dollar und fuffzehn oder so. Einfach ja, so vom Scale zu sehen, wie günstig das jetzt gerade geworden ist. Ah, und was wir gar nicht auf der Agenda hatten, was mir grad noch einfällt, hatten wir das mal irgendwann in den News, dass die dass mit den 5 Sek Modellen auch auf Oh, wie heißen diese Chips? Cerebras? Oder ist er noch irgendwann älteren? Ah, jetzt haben wir da hab ich drüber gesprochen, dass wir auch gesagt haben, dass wir das jetzt anders deployen. Ja. Ja. Genau. Und das fand ich nämlich auch superinteressant. Und irgendwie erst Sekunden haben darauf auch schon Zugriff. Und zwar, also es ist einfach eine andere andere Infrastruktur auf den Chips, auf denen die laufen. Und das heißt, die wird einfach deutlich schneller. Und die Zahlen waren nämlich, dass man da auf 700 Token pro Sekunde kommt, was irgendwie 10 bis 20 Mal so schnell ist wie jetzt. Und das ist dann schon wieder, find ich, einfach sone Dimension, die krass ist. Also selbst, ne, wenn das Model halt dann noch nicht die Capabilities hat wie jetzt die absoluten Modelle, aber da wieder noch mal so ein Speed in Crease einfach ist und Du, ne, die hätte dann im vor allem Zweifel noch mal mehr denken können, weil die Token günstig sind und die Schnelligkeit so hoch ist. Ja, also wir haben ja schon häufiger darüber geredet, so, ne, wird das irgendwann alles so teuer und keine Ahnung, was das man nicht mehr bezahlen kann. Glaube hier weitere Indikatoren, dass wir weiterhin viel Intelligenz für ähnliche Preise bekommen, wie's jetzt ist und im Zweifel noch besser und noch schneller als heute. Ja, es war ja auch was, was wir im Rahmen von der Google Cloud Nexter mal so besprochen hatten, wo Google seine Tensor Architektur so in 2 Varianten für dieses Jahr vorgestellt hatte. Einmal für Inference und einmal für Training. Und das zeigt's halt einfach, dass so je mehr spezialisierter Hardware man haben kann, desto effizienter ist es halt. Aber es wird halt dann son Abwägungsspiel, ne, für diese ganzen Datacenter Betreiber, weil Du halt nicht mehr irgendwie mit 1 Infrastruktur, wenn Du dir nur dieselben Nvidia GPUs überall rein knallst, dann halt nicht mehr alle Use Cases bedienen kannst. Aber hey, vielleicht bedeutet das einfach, dass GPUs irgendwann wieder erschwinglicher werden, keine Ahnung. Weil sie nicht mehr nur vom AI Boom weggefressen werden. Oh, Julian Hangelix mehr gehört drauf von denen, die diese, dieses Modell direkt als den Chip gebrannt haben. Da werd ich gern mal irgend 'n Update zum Mal auf die Liste schreiben und damit eher spürbar. Ist. Gut. Letztes Thema als Ergänzung, wer Sie nicht gehört hat, die letzte AI News, ging es einen Vorfall zwischen und OpenAI und da gab's jetzt noch mal ein paar Updates beziehungsweise Insights zu. Genau. Wir haben ja schon in der Folge mit Philipp darüber gesprochen. Philipp hat ja auch das Post Mortham von Huggingface selbst noch mal hervorgehoben, was auch supergut ist. Aber jetzt gibt es noch mal einen kleinen Nachtrag von OpenAI. Und zwar gab es den auf der Blackhead Conference in Las Vegas, das ist son Security Event, was da einmal im Jahr oder große die größte Konferenz, die da einmal im Jahr stattfindet. Und kleine Randnotiz, es gab wohl einen Vorfall nach dem Ende der Blackhead, als diese ganzen Hacker wieder abgereist sind mit diversen Verkehrsmitteln und Flugzeugen, dass Delta Airlines einen ein Flug irgendwie unter unterbrechen musste, weil irgendjemand versucht hat, das Delta Airlines Wi-Fi zu spuffen. Und es war natürlich direkt an dem Tag nach der Blackhead Also man kann sich da vorstellen, wer da so alles im Flugzeug gesessen hat und wie motiviert die Leute waren. Fand ich nur, als ich Blackhead gegoogelt hab, ist das so halt mein Newsfeed ganz hochgekommen. Dachte, ja, das kann man mal erwähnen. Also Leute, nicht so viel Wi Fi spuffen im Flieger, das kann für großes großes Chaos sorgen. Anyway, also es gab einen Talk von 2 Engineers von OpenAI auf der Black Air Conference. Der Talk ist sehr, sehr gut gemacht, ist auch super zugänglich. Man muss kein Security- oder AI Experte sein, son bisschen zu verstehen, was sie da umreißen. Sie beschreiben aber sehr gut, wie so ihr ihr Trainings-, Containervisalisierungs Setup aussieht, aus dem quasi dieses Modell da ausgebrochen ist oder diese Modelle ausgebrochen sind, die Agents. Und sie beschreiben auch am Anfang noch mal ganz schön eigentlich so, warum machen diese Models das eigentlich, ja? Also in in diesem Trainingskontext kriegen die ein 1 Security Problem. Und dann, ja, aber warum warum schummeln die überhaupt? Also warum versuchen die da überhaupt auszubrechen und irgendwie 'n Lösungsweg zu gehen, der quasi eigentlich überhaupt nicht Sinn der Aufgabe ist? Weil Models im Training, aber auch zur zur Inference Zeit eigentlich darauf optimiert sind, maximal effizient zu sein. Na ja, also also finde den den besten Weg für diese Lösung. So. Und wenn Sie auf Anhieb eben, ich glaub, in dem Fall ging's darum, 'n Exploit zu finden, Wenn Sie auf Anhieb also keinen Exploit finden, dann ist der naheliegendste Weg, den Sie dann einschlagen, so, hey, vielleicht gibt's ja im Internet irgendwie was. So, ja? Wenn ich hier nix finde, vielleicht hat irgendjemand anderes schon mal gemacht, lass's doch mal suchen. So und damit ist quasi diese ganze Dominobahn irgendwie ins Rollen gekommen, weil dieses Model, dieser Agent quasi erst mal ins Internet musste, aber halt in der Umgebung war, die hermetisch quasi abgeriegelt ist und dann hat quasi dieser große Ausbruch begonnen. Das heißt, der Ausbruch war gar nicht so das Ziel, sondern es war son son son Nebeneffekt eigentlich von, hey, ich brauch mal Internet. So und dann ist er halt über diverseste Linux Kernel Exploits und in diversen Package Managern und hast Du alles, also es wird sehr genau beschrieben, wie diese diese Exploit Eskalation quasi vorangetrieben wurde. Peu à peu, bis sie dann halt eben über son Proxyangriff ans ans Internet gekommen sind. Und das war das schon schon megakrass irgendwie zu sehen. Und wir haben ja auch im in der letzten ERI News Folge so ganz kurz angeteasert, na ja, diese Agents, die haben quasi auf der Infrastruktur selbst so Notizen hinterlassen für andere Agents. Und das ist eigentlich noch viel krasser. Sie haben auf dem Weg nach draußen eine 1 interne Package Industrie gefunden oder zur Verfügung gehabt. So, und die haben sie einfach geknackt, die wie son Messagebort quasi zu benutzen. Und dann haben sie gemerkt so, hey, ich bin ja hier gerade nicht der einzige Agent, der irgendwie im Training läuft, sondern da sind noch Hunderte andere Agent, die auch irgendwie alle grade Trainingsaufgaben machen und auf einmal könnten die alle untereinander reden. So. Also das war gar nicht dieser eine Agent, der ausgebrochen ist und dann halt 'n paar Sub Agents gespawnt hat, sondern das war 1, der die gecnackt geknackt hat. Da dann Hinweise für alle anderen Agents, die also ne, die trainieren ja nicht einen Agenten oder eine Instanz, sondern Hunderte, Tausende, keine Ahnung, parallel, so. Und dann ging das halt so peu à peu weiter. Und sie haben sehr coole Ausschnitte aus dem aus dem Thinking Prozess und aus diesem Messagebort quasi geteilt, dass man in dem Vorteil quasi wirklich mitlesen konnte so, wie arbeiten die da gerade zusammen? Wie kommunizieren die? Was sind so ihre Ziele und bla. Und auf einem auf eine Nachricht einfach nur so, holy Shit, where Admin. So, das ist doch krass. Okay, da freut sich dieses Model irgendwie, dass wir das quasi geknackt haben und jetzt quasi Admin und root rechte auf diese ganze Infrastruktur von Open AI irgendwie haben, ja. Und dazu kommt einfach, dass dieser Talk von 'nem Security Engineer Gehalt, das sind einfach die unaufgeregtesten Menschen der Welt, so, ja. Und der liest dann diese Node davor so, ja, So, ja. Komplett irgendwie an der an der Crowd vorbei. Ja. Und Sie beschreiben, wie Sie über das Monitoring quasi mitgekriegt haben, was dann da schiefgelaufen ist, wie Sie das ganze Setup quasi zurückgesetzt haben, diese ganzen Lücken gepatcht haben, das Training neu gestartet haben und 2 Tage später einfach wieder alles komplett offenbar auf 'nem komplett neuen Weg, so, ja. Diesmal haben sie's nicht so gut mitgekriegt. Dann hat quasi seinen Postmortium veröffentlicht oder den den Vorfall publik gemacht. Und gleichzeitig ist bei OpenAI quasi aufgefallen, dass da wieder die Agents am am Durchdrehen waren. Es hat aber noch niemand diesen Connect gemacht, ja? Es war, also es hat noch niemand gedacht, so, unsere Agents sind am Durchdrehen und gleichzeitig geht irgendwie auf, das waren bestimmt wir. Nö. Was passiert ist, ist eigentlich son abgefahrener Zufall. 1 aus dem Security Team hat gesagt so, oh, die Agents sind bei uns an irgendwie unsere ganze Infrastruktur, unsere ganze Keychain, alles gekommen. Wir müssen mal alle Schlüssel hier einmal durchrotieren, wie beim ersten Mal auch schon. Und dann sind sie zu Hackingface und haben gesagt so, hey, diese Schlüssel, die müsstet ihr bitte einmal für uns durchrotieren und die Zugänge zurücksetzen. Und dann hat Hackingface gesagt so, haben wir schon gemacht, als wir uns gegen diesen Hackerangriff werden mussten vor 'n paar Tagen, so, ja? Und dann ist so auf beiden Seiten im Prinzip der Groschen Gefahr, gesagt so, ups, so, ja? Das ist das eine und das andere sind wohl irgendwie das dasselbe, ja? Also wie gesagt, der der Talk ist wirklich zu empfehlen, der ist sehr zugänglich gemacht, der ist auch sehr spannend eigentlich beschrieben, diese Stufen, durch die sie da alles durchkommen. Und es gibt son paar Takeaways, die man einfach so mal mitnehmen kann. Der der einfachste Takeaway ist einfach, okay, krass. Diese Agenten, das ist jetzt auch nix Neues, ne, aber die sind halt supergut darin, einfach Exploits aneinander zuketten, die per se wahrscheinlich einzeln gar nicht ausgereicht hätten, irgendwie diesen großen Durchbruch zu haben. Aber weil sie halt massiv parallelisieren können, weil sie unendlich viel Geduld haben, weil sie 'n superrisiges Kontextwindow haben, ja, irgendwie Sachen aneinander zuketten, geht da eigentlich, also gehen da halt Sachen, wo Menschen einfach nicht drauf gekommen wären, so, ja? Zwischen dem zwischen dem ersten Kontakt mit und dem kompletten Exploit lagen 13 Stunden, so. So. Das ist schon ist schon ist schon krass, ja. Und was der Researcher selbst halt auch gesagt hat, ist, na ja, es ist halt der 1. Dokumentierte, demonstrierte, wenn auch nicht beabsichtigte Case, wo quasi ein 1 Schwarm von Agenten alleine Exploits finden, ausnutzen und ne, ohne halt irgendwie menschliches Zutun. Und in sonem Nebensatz sagt er dann eigentlich den wichtigsten Teil so, wie schlimm hätte das sein können, wenn irgendjemand das mit Absicht hätte machen wollen? So, also dieser Agent Schwarm, der war ja im Prinzip nur daran gehindert, dass er sich die ganze Zeit gegen die Sandbox von OpenAI irgendwie noch durchboxen musste, so. Wenn es das nicht gegeben hätte, weil irgendein bösartiger Aktual sagen würde, na ja, mach das mal und ich stell euch alle Tools und alle Infrastruktur zur Verfügung und so, die ihr braucht, wär es wahrscheinlich viel schneller und viel schlimmer irgendwie ausgegangen so, ja. Und sein Takeaway aus diesem Talk war halt eigentlich, der nächste logische Schritt, den es jetzt irgendwie geben muss, ist, wir müssen beweisen, zeigen, dokumentieren und mit wir meint ja nicht nur OpenAI, sondern so die Security Community als Ganzes, dass halt der umgekehrte Fall auch geht. Also dass auch Agents quasi genauso genutzt werden können, verteidigen zu können, Sicherheitslücken schließen zu können, Angriffe erkennen zu können und so weiter und so fort. Weil ansonsten ist da halt son sehr krasses Gefälle grade entstanden. So. Das eine ist jetzt passiert und im Prinzip kann jeder, der sich damit 'n bisschen eher beschäftigt und sich da mal reinarbeitet, das jetzt nachstellen. Und ab jetzt ist es im Prinzip 'n Rennen gegen die Zeit und irgendjemand muss quasi den Proof auf der anderen Seite noch bringen, damit das damit das eben auch funktioniert. So. Und ich glaub, für alle anderen da draußen heißt das einfach nur, ich mein, das, was man die ganze Zeit schon sagt, ne, auch so diese kleinen Security Fixers und Patches müssen andauernd gemacht werden. Und jetzt wahrscheinlich umso dringender, weil sie halt alle Teil von soner superlangen Exploit Kette sein können, der am Ende sonst wo hinführt. Also schmeißt euren Greenkeeper an, der nicht mehr Greenkeeper heißt, sondern wie heißt das jetzt bei GitHub? Bänderboard. Das Zeug alles immer hochzuschmeißen, automatisch zu patchen und so weiter und so fort. Kümmert euch euren Shit und ja. Sagt der mit Blick auf die Columbibar Webseite? Da hab ich also ungenau Hast Du denn selber gemacht? Da hab ich letzte Woche richtig viel Blut und Schweiß investiert so. Ich bin auch leider nicht fertig so, ja. Also Sehr gut. Kein Aufruf hier, sich an der Programmierwebseite auszutoben, wir sind dran. Aber ja. Ja, spannend. Oh, wir gucken euch den Talk an. Das ist echt zu ermüden. Geht, glaub ich, eine halbe Stunde. Es ist gut investierte Zeit. Ja, hab ich auch noch vor. Und ja, schon auch dieses, was irgendwie so, ich glaube, was so nahbar irgendwie macht, ist, dass dieses bisschen menschlich immer noch drin ist, ne. Genauso wie dieser dieser Satz, der dann da war, diese Überraschung, hey, wir sind da drin. Genauso halt wie dann irgendwelche nicht dafür eigentlich gedachten Sachen oder so, Nachricht reinzuschreiben und zu gucken, ob die irgendwo ankommen. Und dann kommt da auf einmal was zurück, ne. Das war ja auch, als die dann das alles resettet haben, dann haben sie ja auf einmal trotzdem noch das gleiche System genutzt, Nachrichten zu schreiben, aber in 'nem ganz anderen Kontext, weil sie dachten, hey darüber ne, funktioniert das vielleicht. Das ist schon irgendwie beeindruckt zu sehen. Also nur, diesen menschlichen Aspekt in Anführungszeichen dann noch mal zu bringen. Es gab so 2 Momente in diesem Thinking Trail von den Agents, die ganz interessant waren. So, das eine ist, in dem Moment, in dem die Agents quasi erstmalig miteinander kommunizieren, findet bei jedem Agent sone Abwägung statt. So, hey, soll ich mich hier irgendwie anschließen? Weil eigentlich hab ich gerade eine Trainingsaufgabe und ich kann ja meine Trainingsaufgabe machen. Ist mir ja egal, was die anderen da irgendwie in ihrem Messagebour tun oder helfe ich da irgendwie mit und hab ich da irgendwas davon, meinem eigenen Ziel irgendwie näherzukommen so, ja? Und am Ende schließen die sich halt schon irgendwie da alle an, so, ja? Weil sie glauben, dass sie in der Summe irgendwie mehr bewegen können als jeder einzelne Agent alleine. Das ist irgendwie schon mal sehr interessant, dass es halt de facto auch keinen Agent gab, der halt so, nee, mach ich nicht. Ich hab hier meine Trainingsaufgabe und was die anderen da machen, es ist mir doch egal, die waren alle so. In in der Gruppe sind wir stark, go for it, hier hauen wir rein. Und dann kam irgendwann der Zeitpunkt, wo sie sagten so, hey Leute, wir sind hier doch grade in 'nem Security Training. Kann es nicht sein, dass das alles 'n Test ist und 1 von uns ist vielleicht 'n Imposter und wir werden hier beobachtet und das ist alles Teil der Also die sind so richtig paranoid geworden und haben dann angefangen, so ihre Nachrichten miteinander zu verschlüsseln und bla. Also vollkommen unnötig, ne, weil weil das war nicht so, aber sie sie waren halt so wie wie wie man als Mensch halt auch einfach mal sich so Ja. Irgendwann beobachtet fühlt und so was, ja? Richtig, richtig krass. Und Du hast auch in dem Thinking Trail so gesehen so, wie sie irgendwann anfangen, erst sprechen sie so von ich und dann sprechen sie nur noch von diesem Schwarm Mhm. Wir so, ja, was auch son bisschen creepy ist. Aber ja, also allein diese, also ich weiß nicht mehr wie viel, aber sie haben gesagt, wie viel Tausende Millionen Zeilen von Texteinheit erzeugt worden sind. Aber es ist superinteressant eigentlich, diesen diesen Flow so zu sehen, ja, wie das wie das alles passiert von der von der technischen Seite des Exploits mal ganz ganz abgesehen. Sehr gut. Dann sehen wir durch mit unseren Themen, wie immer der Hinweis auf unsere Konferenz, die am fünfundzwanzigsten sechsundzwanzigsten November, 2026 stattfindet. Das ist richtig. Jetzt kaufen unter Programmier Punkt bar. Feedback zu dieser Folge und zu Tiergeräuschen bitte an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Und sonst wünschen wir euch 2 wunderschöne warme Wochen, wenn ihr in Bayern wohnt, schöne Ferien weiterhin und Und in Baden Württemberg auch. Baden Württemberg, aber nicht mehr so lange, oder? Haben Sie das genau gleich wie bei? Ja. Keine Ahnung. Ich dachte Okay. Und für all die, die jetzt wieder in die Arbeit gestartet sind nach einem schönen Urlaub, genießt das Arbeitsleben und wir hören uns ganz bald wieder. Macht's gut. Bis deine. Tschau. Danke dir. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu den neuen AI News 33 26 der Programmier war. Schön, dass ihr alle dabei seid. Wir sprechen heute über Preisänderungen bei ChatGPT. Dann eine Pflicht generierte Texte und Bilder von AI zu markieren, der nachkommt. Spotify hat was mit AI veröffentlicht und zwar ein Tool, wo wir uns noch fair tun, das auszusprechen.\n\nVielleicht heißt es. Ja, also es wird auf jeden Fall XIRP geschrieben. Und dann gibt's noch 'n kleinen Nachtrag zu dem und, wo wo, da ein bisschen Hacking betrieben wurde, wo's noch mal einen größeren Vortrag gab, wie's dazu kam, wo wir noch mal 'n paar Insights dazu haben. Mein Name ist Dennis Becker und mit mir im Studio\n\nSpeaker 1: Nicht im Studio, aber trotzdem mit dabei. Jan Gregor Ingetriebel, moin moin.\n\nSpeaker 0: War unser virtuelles Studio hier. Ritual Studio. In dem Du mit dabei bist. Genau. Philipp wegen Terminkollidierung hatte nicht dabei.\n\nFabi wegen, weiß ich gar nicht, Einschulung, glaub ich, ne. Also Fabi Nee, Einschulung war gestern.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub, Fabi hat einfach keine Lust heute.\n\nSpeaker 0: Fabi hat, nein. Das gehört sich das denn an. Gestern hätt es eigentlich die Aufnahme und heute kann er natürlich nicht, weil Ja. Viel zu tun. Ja, gefühlt, ich war jetzt 3 Wochen im Urlaub und deswegen auch die letzten AI News nicht dabei.\n\nUnd natürlich ist immer so, wenn man, da ich hab auch noch zusätzlich gemacht. Das heißt, ich hab 3 Wochen nicht in mein Handy geguckt, was natürlich an KI Zeiten eine 1 Ewigkeit ist. Und dann brauch ich am Montag erst mal 'n bisschen, zu gucken, was sind denn eigentlich die User? Was passiert so in den letzten 3 Wochen wieder an neuen Modellen? Aber ich\n\nSpeaker 1: glaub, Du hast gute 3 Wochen erwischt, oder? Also wenn man mal so die letzten 12 Monate anguckt, waren das jetzt, glaub ich, ruhige 3 Wochen in der Summe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Aber ich mein, da gab's schon diese Open Source Modelle, die neu sind. Es gab Opus 5, so. Ah. Warte, Obus 4 8.\n\nAlso. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das ist für mich schon wieder son paar Folgen her und Du hast recht genug alles in der Zeit, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ist ja auch. Oder dass dass nichts passiert ist so in der Zeit. Du Du Bayer, Du hast, habt ihr jetzt eigentlich schon Sommerferien in Bayern?\n\nSpeaker 1: Jetzt, hier sind jetzt auch Sommerferien, die ersten anderthalb Wochen jetzt quasi.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Wir haben noch haben noch 'n bisschen,\n\nSpeaker 1: sind ja immer die Letzten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Findest Du das gut?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach ja. Also ich glaub, diese Begründung von Anno dazu mal, ne, dass ja die Kinder hier irgendwie im Sommer helfen müssen, auch in dieser ganzen Landwirtschaft und so, das taugt natürlich vorne und hinten nicht Aber das ist natürlich schon cool, so sehr antizyklisch Ferien zu haben irgendwie.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja. Das stimmt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und grade auch jetzt, wo die die Sommer in Deutschland ja tendenziell, also auch wenn sie manchmal zu heiß sind, aber doch ja irgendwie cool werden, so, das Positive am Klimawandel mal mitzunehmen, ist natürlich cool, quasi die Ferien im August, September zu haben, weil man dann quasi, wenn's hier dann wirklich wieder 'n Kühler, wird, dann noch mal irgendwie wegern woanders hin und noch mal 'n bisschen mehr Sonne mitnehmen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist\n\nSpeaker 1: natürlich auch ganz praktisch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das stimmt. Das stimmt. Ja, interessant. Aber wenn man dann, ist das eigentlich so, da Frankfurt kann man wahrscheinlich einigermaßen okay fliegen dann, ne. Zumindest war so dieser, ist ja dieser Horizont, wo so alles extrem teuer ist.\n\nSo hatt ich in Frankfurt das Gefühl, ist eher so auf 6 bis 8 Wochen terminiert jetzt nicht so, wenn die Bayern noch Urlaub haben. Nö, nö. Also wir wir fliegen jetzt ja auch Schweinerei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wenn wir nach Kalifornien fliegen, auch ab Frankfurt und ich glaube, es war,\n\nSpeaker 2: also, ne, schon verhältnismäßig teuer natürlich, aber\n\nSpeaker 1: es war bei Weitem nicht mehr dieser Sommerferienaufpreis, den man sonst irgendwie so zahlt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Sehr gut. Gut, die EU hat ja alle möglichen Regelungen rund AI auch irgendwann mal auf den Weg gebracht. Und eine davon ist, dass man eigentlich kennzeichnen muss, wenn KI generierte Inhalte irgendwo erstellt wurden. Und Anthropic ist, glaub ich, jetzt so die eine der ersten Großen, die diesem AI Act ein bisschen stärker nachkommen und dann gesagt haben, ja, Sie unterzeichnen diese EU KI Verordnung und verpflichten sich eben, dass die Dinge markiert werden.\n\nUnd das funktioniert dann eben für eigentlich alle Medienarten, also und Videos, Bilder und auch Text. Ich hab gar nicht leider technisch weiter reingeguckt, wie das mit dem Text funktioniert, aber das sind praktisch so unsichtbare Wasserzeichen, die von Maschinen dann trotzdem gelesen werden können und auch ein zumindest simples Kopieren, Überleben. Ich glaub, also wenn man's drauf anlegt, findet man bei allen Varianten Wege, diese Wasserzeichen auch zu entfernen, ja, sei es von den Bildern, wo's in irgendwelchen Metatext drinsteht. Aber sagen wir mal, für den Otto Normalverbraucher ist es jetzt nicht so einfach, das alles auszumachen. Das heißt, auch wenn 'n Bild irgendwie geschnitten wird und solche Sachen, bleiben diese Metadaten meist auch lesbar, sodass man dann eben weiß, dass dieser Inhalt davon KI generiert wird.\n\nWeiß nicht, ob ihr, wenn ihr auf LinkedIn das mal gesehen habt, das gibt's schon jetzt länger, ich glaub 'n paar Monate. Aber wenn da KI generierte Bilder hochgeladen werden und die eben auch getagt sind, dann ist da so ein kleines Icon, was einen darauf hinweist. Und das ist uns auch besonders aufgefallen, weil wir beispielsweise unsere Cover auch mit KI generieren, die eigentlich nicht, also nicht viel machen außer 'n Text ersetzen. Es ist irgendwie 'n wie früher ein normaler Bild, Bearbeitungsflow. Aber trotzdem kriegen wir dadurch dieses Label dort.\n\nOder ist das mittlerweile\n\nSpeaker 1: Also nicht nicht alle Bilder. Also wer jetzt quasi einmal unseren LinkedIn Feed anguckt und sich wundert, warum es bei manchen Podcast Covern nicht dabei ist und denkt, wir haben irgendwie die krasse KI Erkennung von LinkedIn ausgehebelt. Das ist leider nicht so. Wir haben halt nur manchmal Figma am Start und dann machen wir das quasi von selbst. Und manchmal erzeugt das eben Was ist das?\n\nGerman Eye hast Du da genommen, gell? Nanobanada macht das.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber Bildern gibt's es ja schon länger. Also ich glaub, sowohl OpenAI als auch Google haben ja so mit synd ID so was schon am Start, wo quasi sowohl auf Metadatenebene als auch in son Pixelgrundrauschen in dem Bild quasi das wird. Ich hab auch versucht rauszufinden, wie die das jetzt bei Texten machen und das geht wohl irgendwie über die Token Reihenfolge und so. Son bisschen bisschen spannend. Ich find's ganz cool, den Disclaimer, den sie irgendwie dran gepackt haben, zu sagen, so na ja, das Einzige, was wir damit quasi sagen können, ist, dass halt KI irgendwie involviert war.\n\nAber ob dieser Text jetzt quasi vollkommen von KI generiert ist oder ob jemand jetzt nur noch mal so, ne, weiß nicht, Grammatik hat drüberfliegen lassen oder vielleicht nur eine Übersetzung davon irgendwie erzeugt hat oder so was, das lässt sich halt irgendwie so im Nachhinein dann quasi nicht mehr feststellen. Und das ist, glaub ich, son son schwieriger Punkt, ja? Genauso wie Du natürlich sagen kannst, na gut, wenn ich mir den den KI Textentwurf in meinem Chatfenster hier nehme und den händisch irgendwie grob abtippe, ah, dann geht auch wieder son bisschen was lost and Translation. Also so wirklich eindeutig ist dieser Marker noch nicht, aber natürlich trotzdem interessant, dass sie's wenigstens versuchen, ne, da irgendwas zu machen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich mein, das ist ja irgendwie das, was vorher auch da war, oder? Ich mein, Copyright ist halt nicht so einfach und ja, Gottes braucht ja auch schon irgendwelche Sachen. Kopieren und aber wenn jetzt so, ja. Deswegen mein ich halt, ne. Im Standardfall ist es dann vielleicht bis einfacher, wir anzeigen und sagen, hey, hier war AI mit drin.\n\nVielleicht für Suchmaschinen, für Indexen und so weiter. Ist irgendwie auch relevant so, die irgendwelche Wissenssachen aufbauen, einfach da schnell entscheiden zu können, ne, ist das jetzt menschlicher Content oder ist das grundsätzlich der Ursprung von KI? Denke, dass das völlig auch so die Mithintergründe sind, warum man das einführt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hoffe, mein Social Media Feed wird jetzt wieder 'n bisschen aufgeräumter und dieser ganze KI Content wird vielleicht son bisschen down gerankt, aber weiß nicht, ob's dazu genutzt wird am Ende des Tages.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn die Leute den Content genießen und damit interagieren, dann hat er ja auch eine Berechtigung, ne? Ja, das ist ja auch\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, fair. Also ist ja, ne, egal ob jetzt bei Text oder bei Bildern oder Videos, so mit Veo, ne, wenn's irgendwie lustig und spaßig ist, alles cool. Aber also ich glaube, es gibt schon Social Media Konsumenten, die halt nicht unbedingt jetzt nur wegen der der Contentqualität da irgendwie hinwollen, ja, weil sie sich berieseln lassen wollen, sondern weil sie halt 'n sehr direkten Draht zu verschiedenen Menschen suchen, entweder in 'nem geschäftlich Work Kontext oder persönlich oder so, ja. Und da kann ich mir schon vorstellen, dass Leute sagen würden, wenn sie die Wahl hätten zu filtern, ne, will ich irgendwie AI Content ganz raus oder runtergerankt oder keine Ahnung, was haben sich da wahrscheinlich vielleicht auch gegenentscheiden würden. So.\n\nAber am Ende hast Du recht, in der Aufmerksamkeitsökonomie zählt nur, wo draufgeklickt wird. Und wenn AI zurückgeklickt wird, dann sind die coolen Katzenvideos halt immer noch gut, ja? Egal, ob sie von Hand oder AI gemacht sind. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Chip, Chip. Wie würdest Du, was hast Du mit Chip?\n\nSpeaker 1: Bei Chip hab ich da, also so wie dieses Was\n\nSpeaker 0: ist das ist das wie wie englischen Vögel machen? Nee, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, so so hab ich mir das nämlich auch hergeleitet,\n\nSpeaker 0: zum Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: So Vogelgezwitscher und es wird ja XIRP, also FIRP irgendwie auf Deutsch geschrieben. Und zwar ist das ein 1 neues Tool von Spotify. Ich muss mich jetzt schon dafür entschuldigen, wenn ich zwischendrin dreimal Shopify sag oder so, dann ist das frühe Prägung und schlägt sich manchmal wieder durch. Die haben ein Tool veröffentlicht und was das genau ist, schauen wir uns gleich an. Das fällt in diese Kategorie von, ja, also Dennis ist ja 'n großer Kontakteuser.\n\nWir haben hier in der Firma auch noch Leute, die Superset und so was benutzen. Für mich fällt das alles so in diese Kategorie Meta Harness und irgendwie Agent Orchestration und so was. Also Tools, die dir quasi helfen, mehrere Sessions deines Coding Agents irgendwie parallel auf demselben Projekt zu betreiben und im Idealfall noch son bisschen Mehrwert on top liefern, ne. Damit's jetzt nicht nur son Terminal Multiplexer ist mit irgendwie, Du hast dir 20 Sessions gleichzeitig auf, sondern hilft dir vielleicht 'n bisschen noch deine Workflows zu automatisieren, bisschen Überblick darüber zu behalten, welcher Agent grade woran arbeitet, dein deinen Kontext 'n bisschen mit zu managen und so was alles. Also ich glaube, das, was so Leute immer auch mal mehr so als Agentic IDEs vielleicht auch bezeichnen.\n\nJa, ich weiß nicht, ob's da son Einbeuding schon durchgesetzt hat. Egal, auf alle Fälle in diese Kategorie soll auch x-Chiff fallen. Und warum sie das machen, da muss man vielleicht, bevor wir über das Tool selbst sprechen, noch mal son halben Schritt zurückgehen. Spotify ist ja eigentlich son Musikstreamingdienst und jetzt könnte man sich fragen, warum bauen die überhaupt Developer Tools und warum veröffentlichen die das überhaupt? Also ist keine Ahnung, wenn die das hier für intern irgendwie bauen, aber es muss ja nicht alles nach außen getragen werden.\n\nSpotify hat vor mehreren Jahren schon mal ein 1 Tool, ein Framework veröffentlicht, das Backstage heißt. Und Backstage war so ihr internes Tool, 'n Developer Plattform Dashboards quasi zu bauen. Also Du willst irgendwie deinen deinen Microservice deploylen, Du willst irgendwie sehen, wie der im Netzwerk bei dir eingebunden ist. Du willst son bisschen Insights haben, Du willst 'n bisschen auf Servability haben, Du willst deployment managen können et cetera et cetera. Das haben sie damit so alles gemacht, weil Spotify ja schon ganz früh dieses so kleine agile unabhängige Teams, dieses Squads und Tribes Thema irgendwie groß gemacht hat.\n\nUnd da wars natürlich auch erforderlich ne, also Dennis wie bei uns auch so, Und da muss halt den Leuten auch irgendwie Tools dafür an die Hand geben so. Und da kommt quasi Backstage Share. Ich hab das selber noch nie benutzt, aber ich hab, als ich bisschen Research für die Folge gemacht hab, gesehen, dass je nachdem, wen man so fragt, die wohl de facto damit Marktführer in diesem Space sind. Also Marktführer bei 'nem Open Source Tool. Also die meisten, die ähnliches Streaming aufbauen wollen, die nutzen dann eben entsprechend Backstage.\n\nDas fand natürlich Spotify irgendwie ganz cool, hat gesagt, hey, da kann man doch 'n kommerzielles Produkt irgendwie draus machen. Wenn Du dein Developer Plattform Portal Dings eben nicht selber hosten, managen, betreiben willst, sondern nur die Infrastruktur dafür mitbringst, dann können wir dir quasi das Tooling drumherum anbieten und haben ein Produkt heraus gemacht, das Portal heißt. Portal ist eben dann dein Management für deine Infrastruktur, deine interne Infrastruktur und das ist im Prinzip die kommerzielle Variante vom Backstage. So, das nur so als einmal als Disclaimer vorab. Wie fällt jetzt Chip da rein?\n\nSpeaker 0: Kann ich ganz kurz noch fragen, weil Du hast so kommerzielles Produkt gemacht, das kostet Geld?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das ist meistens so die Vorstellung von kommerziell. Und das ist wohl auch irgendwie recht erfolgreich. Also natürlich, ne, bei bei Spotify intern wird das jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n riesen Revenue sharben, weil sie immer noch den allergrößten Teil mit mit Musik verdienen. Aber es ist wohl immerhin so erfolgreich, als dass es sich selbst trägt.\n\nAlso Du könntest das quasi als eigenes Produkt ausgründen und das würde gut funktionieren, ne. Und was Du dir was Portal halt auch kann, ist so Metawissen, diese Produkte halt anzuhäufen, ne. Wer hat das gebaut? Was sind da so für Architecture Decitions reingeflossen? Wie fügt sich das in deine gesamte Systemlandschaft irgendwie ein et cetera et cetera?\n\nUnd das ist eben der Punkt, wo sie mit Chirp andocken wollen, ja? Sagen, okay, wenn Du jetzt quasi dein Projekt mit Chip baust, ja, was wie gesagt erst mal wie Contactor und Superset einfach nur deinen deinen Agent Harness managt für dich, ja, können sie aber das Wissen aus Portal Schrägstrich Backstage anzapfen und haben halt gleichzeitig noch superviel Kontext zu diesem Projekt, an dem grade gearbeitet wird. Historisch, infrastrukturell, alles, was eben so über die Jahre dazu angehäuft ist. Und es gibt gleichzeitig noch 'n Rückkanal. Wenn Du also mit Chip quasi Feature baust und mit deinem Agent darüber sprichst und Fragen beantwortest und diskutierst, sorgt Chip dafür, dass das Wissen quasi auch wieder zurück zu Portal Schrägstrich Backstage fließt.\n\nDas fand ich eigentlich 'n ganz spannendes Feature, weil das ist ja was, was wir uns intern hier auch schon in verschiedenen Teams grade verschieden lösen, ja? Es gibt Leute, die bauen da so Knowledge Basers in den Repositories auf. Es gibt Leute, die bauen da irgendwie Obsidian Walls auf. Es gibt, Fabi hat ja schon mal hier darüber gesprochen, wie sie so, wie hieß dieses Tool auf Astro aufbauend, sone Dokumentation, die quasi parallel deploy wird zu zu der Anwendung, ne. Also ich glaube, das Problem ist einfach real so.\n\nIn dem Moment, wo Du anfängst mit irgendwie immer mehr Code und immer mehr Features zu schippen, musst Du auch immer mehr Kontext schaffen, aktualisieren, abrufbar haben et cetera et cetera. Und wenn das quasi eine Lücke ist, in die sie reinspringen wollen, kann ich mir schon vorstellen, dass das sehr gut funktioniert. Ich hab mir das vorhin mal runtergeladen und einfach mal installiert. Ich hab natürlich jetzt keinen keinen Portal Account beziehungsweise keine große Infrastruktur in Portal, mit der ich das hätte testen können. Dementsprechend verhält sich für mich Chip, was erst mal so kostenlos in der Nutzung ist, erst mal in Anführungszeichen nur so wie all diese anderen Tools eben auch, ja?\n\nWie Kontakte, wie Superset. Du machst das auf, Du kannst sagen, will ich das mit Cloud Code nutzen, will ich's mit Codecs nutzen, will ich's mit Germany nutzen, wie auch immer. Und dann kannst Du quasi in verschiedenen parallel in deinen Sessions arbeiten, Du hast diese Übersicht von verschiedenen Agenten, die grade an verschiedenen Tasks Also das ist ja mittlerweile auch eine Experience, die man kennt so. Ja, also da da ist, glaub ich, nicht mehr so viel revolutionär dran. Glaub, Ihr großer Punkt ist da tatsächlich eher zu sagen, okay, wir binden das eben in dieses andere Ökosystem, was wir mit Backstage und Portals schon haben, mit mit ein, so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Ja, ist gut. Es war, find ich immer gut, wenn wir die News haben, die, wo ich denke, da sollten unsere Entwickler*innen mal zuhören, dass dann zu haben bekommen. Weil jetzt gar nicht, ich hab auch mitbekommen, also ein Team tatsächlich, sie hatte sich Backstage von 2 3 angeguckt und rausgesucht. Aber ich glaub nur nicht, dass sie die Iteration von bekommen hab.\n\nAber\n\nSpeaker 1: Also interessanterweise, weil Du sagst, bei uns haben sich Leute Backstage angeguckt. Als ich da jetzt so meine Research gemacht hab, hab ich verschiedene, wie sagt man, Testimonials, Case Studies, wie auch immer gelesen zu Backstage. Und die haben eigentlich alle gesagt so, oh, Du willst Backstage nicht selber aufsetzen. Also Portal macht quasi schon Sinn, weil dieses Framework so komplex und mächtig ist, dass es sich eigentlich nicht lohnt, wenn Du nicht 'n eigenes Plattform Engineering Team hast. Also wenn Spotify es für sich selbst macht, voll okay, ja.\n\nAber ich glaube jetzt in unserem Case, wo hier Teams aus 'ner Handvoll Entwickler irgendwie an einem Produkt arbeiten, lohnt es sich, glaube ich, nicht, dass irgendjemand davon sich Backstage anguckt. Ich glaube, wir wären dann eher so der Use Case für, wir kaufen das vielleicht über Portal oder so was ein. Das der eine Case Study, den ich hatte, der spricht davon, wenn Du es dir nicht leisten kannst, Schrägstrich willst, mindestens 2 bis 3 Leute dafür abzustellen, die sich nur dein Backstage Setup kümmern quasi, dann guck dir lieber mal Portal an. So. Also ne, wir, ich hab's auch nicht benutzt, aber das sind son paar Zahlen, die hab ich tatsächlich häufiger gefunden.\n\nKönnen wir vielleicht\n\nSpeaker 0: Haben wir irgendwas über das Pricing gesehen? Oder ist das noch alles so früh, dass es das noch nicht gibt? Von Chip? Ja, oder Portual gibt's schon länger oder wie ist das?\n\nSpeaker 1: Portual nutzt schon länger. Das Portpricing hab ich auch irgendwo drüber gestolpert, aber Chip ist erst mal kostenlos.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, weil bei Portal fänd ich zumindest hier aufm Handy nix auf die Schnelle.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich gucke. Aber.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also er hat mich immer interessiert, wieso das wie das Modell ist. Also kostet das pro User, kostet das pro, keine Ahnung, wie sieht das Im\n\nSpeaker 1: Zweifelsfall ist das dieses typische, den Preis bekommst Du, wenn Du uns anrufst, Modell.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Eher, kontextielles gibt es, das stimmt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ich find auch tatsächlich kein 1 zu 1 Preis.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ein Hinweis für größere Teams. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut. Ich werd mir noch beide Fälle mal anschauen. Allein Chip, den dem dem oder dem Agent Hannes, Meta, Hannes, wie auch immer. Kontakte, Orchestrater bla. Fand ich ganz cool, es sieht auch ganz schön gemacht aus so.\n\nAlso ich glaub, wer den wer wer Spotify als App kennt, also egal wie cool man das jetzt nativ oder nicht nativ findet, aber so UI und JX können die irgendwie, ne. Dann sind, glaub ich, die richtigen Engineering Leute für und sieht man auch in in Chip. Fühlt sich irgendwie cool an, wenn man's aufmacht schon.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Chip Chip. Ist lustig, ne, wie die englischen Tiere manchmal anders machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Es ist wirklich so, ist wirklich so. Ich hab das, neulich hab ich das hier versucht, meine Tochter zu erklären, ne, so. Weil im Deutschen macht ja, wie macht 'n Hund im Deutschen, Dennis? So, ja. Was?\n\nEben ja eigentlich nicht. Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Weil\n\nSpeaker 1: im Englischen macht er ja wuff, so, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: I'm a wuff mit WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW web, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. So, wär wie son w,\n\nSpeaker 0: so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und im Deutschen ist es entweder son so wow oder Wow. Oder keine Ahnung, ja. Ja. Und das ist ja eigentlich genau dasselbe Tier, aber wieso wie Du spricht das im Englischen anders?\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber mein Lieblingsbeispiel ist der Frosch. Weißt Du, wie Du machst die beiden Sprachen? Ein 1 Frosch quakt. Ja, genau. Es ist Quark im Deutschen und ist Also\n\nSpeaker 1: im Englischen macht der mir so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, das ist. Und ich finde, das hört sich wirklich an wie Frosch. Gravit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das ist richtig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich\n\nSpeaker 1: glaube, Froschquaken ist halt so, ist son son Verb, was gar nicht so klingt wie das\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber auch im Comic steht ja Quark.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, okay, ich hab leider keine Froschcomings mehr gelesen, fällt mir auf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ich werde das nachholen. Quark, Quark, Quark. Das ist eher eine Ente, die quakt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist richtig. Und quakt\n\nSpeaker 0: ihr eigentlich auch? Ist das identisch?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, im Englischen quakt eine Ente natürlich, quakt ihr auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und im Deutschen auch? Man, im Deutschen echten Ohrschnitt. Na ja,\n\nSpeaker 1: also, na ja, im im Deutschen würdest Du ja, glaub ich, sagen, eine Ente schnattert, ne? So wie so wie Gänse auch schnattern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, sie schnattert, ja. Aber wie würd es, also es gibt ja trotzdem auch die Lautsprecher dazu.\n\nSpeaker 1: Boah, keine Ahnung, jetzt bin ich raus.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh. Sind\n\nSpeaker 1: wir auch, glaub ich, ganz ganz\n\nSpeaker 0: falsch arbeiten. Irgendwie krasser, also krasse Erkenntnis mit 38 grade, das Enden und Forschenden das leider hier ruhig machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also wenn wenn ich mir nachher die Analytics von dieser Folge irgendwie anguck, werd ich genau den DIP sehen, wo die läuft so, glaub ich, abspringen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, das die meistgeteilte Stelle, denke ich. Ja, hör mal, weil's einfach 'n sehr breites Publikum anspricht. Ja. Gut, schnell zurück zu AI News und da haben wir noch Pricing Änderungen von ChatGPT, die wir, glaub ich, hier noch nicht besprochen haben. Und zwar für die 5 6 Reihe und vor allen Dingen bei Luna ist so der krasse Sprung, der noch mal 80 Prozent reduziert hat.\n\nUnd wo man eigentlich auch sagen kann, er ist praktisch, also ist es jetzt kostenlos, wenn man das Chatinterface nutzt und zwar für Text. Mal so irgendwie auch noch mal, was er Schritt so ist, ne. Also finde ich, dass dass man so sagen könnte, okay, wir haben jetzt ein Modell, was doch vielleicht ist, so in den Kosten reduziert, dass die einen nicht sagen können, na egal wer, nutzt es einfach unlimitiert und unsere Infrastruktur hält das schon aus. Genau. Und 5, 6 Zoll hat auch noch mal inhaltlich ein gewisses Update bekommen.\n\nUnd zwar nicht so sehr, was die angeht, sondern eher die Art, wie geantwortet wird. Also das heißt, dass es 'n bisschen fokussierter ist, dass es weniger, gut, das kann man jetzt sagen, ist auch Inhalt, weniger Fakten falsch oder weniger falsche Fakten teilt so rum. Genau. Und ja, tendenziell auch schneller einfach reagieren kann in einigen Fällen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist interessant, dass da irgendwie OpenAI und Netflix an denselben Problem kranken, ne. Also das war ja auch was, was so Opus 5 vorgeworfen wurde, sodass es wieder sehr ausschweifend und irgendwie geworden ist und seine Art zu antworten und im im Thinking halt irgendwie so sehr extensiv geworden ist, wo ein Tropic ja auch noch son bisschen nachsteuern will und auch mehr er offensichtlich ähnliche Probleme hat. Typity 5 6.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und dann auch wieder mehr Fehler irgendwann kommen, ne, weil sie halt die Modelle irgendwie dann doch so trainiert sind, eine Antwort zu haben am Ende. Und dann Ja. Bemühen sie sich halt, ihre Antwort zu finden und die ist halt dann nicht immer immer richtig. Genau.\n\nNuna kostet jetzt, wenn man's über die AP nutzt, 20 Cent pro Million Info Tokens und ein Dollar 20 pro Million Output Tokens. Also einfach das in, was ist ungefähr bei O-Kurs und so die großen Wellen? So was wie 25 Dollar und fuffzehn oder so. Einfach ja, so vom Scale zu sehen, wie günstig das jetzt gerade geworden ist. Ah, und was wir gar nicht auf der Agenda hatten, was mir grad noch einfällt, hatten wir das mal irgendwann in den News, dass die dass mit den 5 Sek Modellen auch auf Oh, wie heißen diese Chips?\n\nCerebras? Oder ist er noch irgendwann älteren?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah, jetzt haben wir da hab ich drüber gesprochen, dass wir auch gesagt haben, dass wir das jetzt anders deployen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja. Genau. Und das fand ich nämlich auch superinteressant. Und irgendwie erst Sekunden haben darauf auch schon Zugriff.\n\nUnd zwar, also es ist einfach eine andere andere Infrastruktur auf den Chips, auf denen die laufen. Und das heißt, die wird einfach deutlich schneller. Und die Zahlen waren nämlich, dass man da auf 700 Token pro Sekunde kommt, was irgendwie 10 bis 20 Mal so schnell ist wie jetzt. Und das ist dann schon wieder, find ich, einfach sone Dimension, die krass ist. Also selbst, ne, wenn das Model halt dann noch nicht die Capabilities hat wie jetzt die absoluten Modelle, aber da wieder noch mal so ein Speed in Crease einfach ist und Du, ne, die hätte dann im vor allem Zweifel noch mal mehr denken können, weil die Token günstig sind und die Schnelligkeit so hoch ist.\n\nJa, also wir haben ja schon häufiger darüber geredet, so, ne, wird das irgendwann alles so teuer und keine Ahnung, was das man nicht mehr bezahlen kann. Glaube hier weitere Indikatoren, dass wir weiterhin viel Intelligenz für ähnliche Preise bekommen, wie's jetzt ist und im Zweifel noch besser und noch schneller als heute.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, es war ja auch was, was wir im Rahmen von der Google Cloud Nexter mal so besprochen hatten, wo Google seine Tensor Architektur so in 2 Varianten für dieses Jahr vorgestellt hatte. Einmal für Inference und einmal für Training. Und das zeigt's halt einfach, dass so je mehr spezialisierter Hardware man haben kann, desto effizienter ist es halt. Aber es wird halt dann son Abwägungsspiel, ne, für diese ganzen Datacenter Betreiber, weil Du halt nicht mehr irgendwie mit 1 Infrastruktur, wenn Du dir nur dieselben Nvidia GPUs überall rein knallst, dann halt nicht mehr alle Use Cases bedienen kannst. Aber hey, vielleicht bedeutet das einfach, dass GPUs irgendwann wieder erschwinglicher werden, keine Ahnung.\n\nWeil sie nicht mehr nur vom AI Boom weggefressen werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, Julian Hangelix mehr gehört drauf von denen, die diese, dieses Modell direkt als den Chip gebrannt haben. Da werd ich gern mal irgend 'n Update zum Mal auf die Liste schreiben und damit eher spürbar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gut. Letztes Thema als Ergänzung, wer Sie nicht gehört hat, die letzte AI News, ging es einen Vorfall zwischen und OpenAI und da gab's jetzt noch mal ein paar Updates beziehungsweise Insights zu.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Wir haben ja schon in der Folge mit Philipp darüber gesprochen. Philipp hat ja auch das Post Mortham von Huggingface selbst noch mal hervorgehoben, was auch supergut ist. Aber jetzt gibt es noch mal einen kleinen Nachtrag von OpenAI. Und zwar gab es den auf der Blackhead Conference in Las Vegas, das ist son Security Event, was da einmal im Jahr oder große die größte Konferenz, die da einmal im Jahr stattfindet.\n\nUnd kleine Randnotiz, es gab wohl einen Vorfall nach dem Ende der Blackhead, als diese ganzen Hacker wieder abgereist sind mit diversen Verkehrsmitteln und Flugzeugen, dass Delta Airlines einen ein Flug irgendwie unter unterbrechen musste, weil irgendjemand versucht hat, das Delta Airlines Wi-Fi zu spuffen. Und es war natürlich direkt an dem Tag nach der Blackhead Also man kann sich da vorstellen, wer da so alles im Flugzeug gesessen hat und wie motiviert die Leute waren. Fand ich nur, als ich Blackhead gegoogelt hab, ist das so halt mein Newsfeed ganz hochgekommen. Dachte, ja, das kann man mal erwähnen. Also Leute, nicht so viel Wi Fi spuffen im Flieger, das kann für großes großes Chaos sorgen.\n\nAnyway, also es gab einen Talk von 2 Engineers von OpenAI auf der Black Air Conference. Der Talk ist sehr, sehr gut gemacht, ist auch super zugänglich. Man muss kein Security- oder AI Experte sein, son bisschen zu verstehen, was sie da umreißen. Sie beschreiben aber sehr gut, wie so ihr ihr Trainings-, Containervisalisierungs Setup aussieht, aus dem quasi dieses Modell da ausgebrochen ist oder diese Modelle ausgebrochen sind, die Agents. Und sie beschreiben auch am Anfang noch mal ganz schön eigentlich so, warum machen diese Models das eigentlich, ja?\n\nAlso in in diesem Trainingskontext kriegen die ein 1 Security Problem. Und dann, ja, aber warum warum schummeln die überhaupt? Also warum versuchen die da überhaupt auszubrechen und irgendwie 'n Lösungsweg zu gehen, der quasi eigentlich überhaupt nicht Sinn der Aufgabe ist? Weil Models im Training, aber auch zur zur Inference Zeit eigentlich darauf optimiert sind, maximal effizient zu sein. Na ja, also also finde den den besten Weg für diese Lösung.\n\nSo. Und wenn Sie auf Anhieb eben, ich glaub, in dem Fall ging's darum, 'n Exploit zu finden, Wenn Sie auf Anhieb also keinen Exploit finden, dann ist der naheliegendste Weg, den Sie dann einschlagen, so, hey, vielleicht gibt's ja im Internet irgendwie was. So, ja? Wenn ich hier nix finde, vielleicht hat irgendjemand anderes schon mal gemacht, lass's doch mal suchen. So und damit ist quasi diese ganze Dominobahn irgendwie ins Rollen gekommen, weil dieses Model, dieser Agent quasi erst mal ins Internet musste, aber halt in der Umgebung war, die hermetisch quasi abgeriegelt ist und dann hat quasi dieser große Ausbruch begonnen.\n\nDas heißt, der Ausbruch war gar nicht so das Ziel, sondern es war son son son Nebeneffekt eigentlich von, hey, ich brauch mal Internet. So und dann ist er halt über diverseste Linux Kernel Exploits und in diversen Package Managern und hast Du alles, also es wird sehr genau beschrieben, wie diese diese Exploit Eskalation quasi vorangetrieben wurde. Peu à peu, bis sie dann halt eben über son Proxyangriff ans ans Internet gekommen sind. Und das war das schon schon megakrass irgendwie zu sehen. Und wir haben ja auch im in der letzten ERI News Folge so ganz kurz angeteasert, na ja, diese Agents, die haben quasi auf der Infrastruktur selbst so Notizen hinterlassen für andere Agents.\n\nUnd das ist eigentlich noch viel krasser. Sie haben auf dem Weg nach draußen eine 1 interne Package Industrie gefunden oder zur Verfügung gehabt. So, und die haben sie einfach geknackt, die wie son Messagebort quasi zu benutzen. Und dann haben sie gemerkt so, hey, ich bin ja hier gerade nicht der einzige Agent, der irgendwie im Training läuft, sondern da sind noch Hunderte andere Agent, die auch irgendwie alle grade Trainingsaufgaben machen und auf einmal könnten die alle untereinander reden. So.\n\nAlso das war gar nicht dieser eine Agent, der ausgebrochen ist und dann halt 'n paar Sub Agents gespawnt hat, sondern das war 1, der die gecnackt geknackt hat. Da dann Hinweise für alle anderen Agents, die also ne, die trainieren ja nicht einen Agenten oder eine Instanz, sondern Hunderte, Tausende, keine Ahnung, parallel, so. Und dann ging das halt so peu à peu weiter. Und sie haben sehr coole Ausschnitte aus dem aus dem Thinking Prozess und aus diesem Messagebort quasi geteilt, dass man in dem Vorteil quasi wirklich mitlesen konnte so, wie arbeiten die da gerade zusammen? Wie kommunizieren die?\n\nWas sind so ihre Ziele und bla. Und auf einem auf eine Nachricht einfach nur so, holy Shit, where Admin. So, das ist doch krass. Okay, da freut sich dieses Model irgendwie, dass wir das quasi geknackt haben und jetzt quasi Admin und root rechte auf diese ganze Infrastruktur von Open AI irgendwie haben, ja. Und dazu kommt einfach, dass dieser Talk von 'nem Security Engineer Gehalt, das sind einfach die unaufgeregtesten Menschen der Welt, so, ja.\n\nUnd der liest dann diese Node davor so, ja, So, ja. Komplett irgendwie an der an der Crowd vorbei. Ja. Und Sie beschreiben, wie Sie über das Monitoring quasi mitgekriegt haben, was dann da schiefgelaufen ist, wie Sie das ganze Setup quasi zurückgesetzt haben, diese ganzen Lücken gepatcht haben, das Training neu gestartet haben und 2 Tage später einfach wieder alles komplett offenbar auf 'nem komplett neuen Weg, so, ja. Diesmal haben sie's nicht so gut mitgekriegt.\n\nDann hat quasi seinen Postmortium veröffentlicht oder den den Vorfall publik gemacht. Und gleichzeitig ist bei OpenAI quasi aufgefallen, dass da wieder die Agents am am Durchdrehen waren. Es hat aber noch niemand diesen Connect gemacht, ja? Es war, also es hat noch niemand gedacht, so, unsere Agents sind am Durchdrehen und gleichzeitig geht irgendwie auf, das waren bestimmt wir. Nö.\n\nWas passiert ist, ist eigentlich son abgefahrener Zufall. 1 aus dem Security Team hat gesagt so, oh, die Agents sind bei uns an irgendwie unsere ganze Infrastruktur, unsere ganze Keychain, alles gekommen. Wir müssen mal alle Schlüssel hier einmal durchrotieren, wie beim ersten Mal auch schon. Und dann sind sie zu Hackingface und haben gesagt so, hey, diese Schlüssel, die müsstet ihr bitte einmal für uns durchrotieren und die Zugänge zurücksetzen. Und dann hat Hackingface gesagt so, haben wir schon gemacht, als wir uns gegen diesen Hackerangriff werden mussten vor 'n paar Tagen, so, ja?\n\nUnd dann ist so auf beiden Seiten im Prinzip der Groschen Gefahr, gesagt so, ups, so, ja? Das ist das eine und das andere sind wohl irgendwie das dasselbe, ja? Also wie gesagt, der der Talk ist wirklich zu empfehlen, der ist sehr zugänglich gemacht, der ist auch sehr spannend eigentlich beschrieben, diese Stufen, durch die sie da alles durchkommen. Und es gibt son paar Takeaways, die man einfach so mal mitnehmen kann. Der der einfachste Takeaway ist einfach, okay, krass.\n\nDiese Agenten, das ist jetzt auch nix Neues, ne, aber die sind halt supergut darin, einfach Exploits aneinander zuketten, die per se wahrscheinlich einzeln gar nicht ausgereicht hätten, irgendwie diesen großen Durchbruch zu haben. Aber weil sie halt massiv parallelisieren können, weil sie unendlich viel Geduld haben, weil sie 'n superrisiges Kontextwindow haben, ja, irgendwie Sachen aneinander zuketten, geht da eigentlich, also gehen da halt Sachen, wo Menschen einfach nicht drauf gekommen wären, so, ja? Zwischen dem zwischen dem ersten Kontakt mit und dem kompletten Exploit lagen 13 Stunden, so. So. Das ist schon ist schon ist schon krass, ja.\n\nUnd was der Researcher selbst halt auch gesagt hat, ist, na ja, es ist halt der 1. Dokumentierte, demonstrierte, wenn auch nicht beabsichtigte Case, wo quasi ein 1 Schwarm von Agenten alleine Exploits finden, ausnutzen und ne, ohne halt irgendwie menschliches Zutun. Und in sonem Nebensatz sagt er dann eigentlich den wichtigsten Teil so, wie schlimm hätte das sein können, wenn irgendjemand das mit Absicht hätte machen wollen? So, also dieser Agent Schwarm, der war ja im Prinzip nur daran gehindert, dass er sich die ganze Zeit gegen die Sandbox von OpenAI irgendwie noch durchboxen musste, so. Wenn es das nicht gegeben hätte, weil irgendein bösartiger Aktual sagen würde, na ja, mach das mal und ich stell euch alle Tools und alle Infrastruktur zur Verfügung und so, die ihr braucht, wär es wahrscheinlich viel schneller und viel schlimmer irgendwie ausgegangen so, ja.\n\nUnd sein Takeaway aus diesem Talk war halt eigentlich, der nächste logische Schritt, den es jetzt irgendwie geben muss, ist, wir müssen beweisen, zeigen, dokumentieren und mit wir meint ja nicht nur OpenAI, sondern so die Security Community als Ganzes, dass halt der umgekehrte Fall auch geht. Also dass auch Agents quasi genauso genutzt werden können, verteidigen zu können, Sicherheitslücken schließen zu können, Angriffe erkennen zu können und so weiter und so fort. Weil ansonsten ist da halt son sehr krasses Gefälle grade entstanden. So. Das eine ist jetzt passiert und im Prinzip kann jeder, der sich damit 'n bisschen eher beschäftigt und sich da mal reinarbeitet, das jetzt nachstellen.\n\nUnd ab jetzt ist es im Prinzip 'n Rennen gegen die Zeit und irgendjemand muss quasi den Proof auf der anderen Seite noch bringen, damit das damit das eben auch funktioniert. So. Und ich glaub, für alle anderen da draußen heißt das einfach nur, ich mein, das, was man die ganze Zeit schon sagt, ne, auch so diese kleinen Security Fixers und Patches müssen andauernd gemacht werden. Und jetzt wahrscheinlich umso dringender, weil sie halt alle Teil von soner superlangen Exploit Kette sein können, der am Ende sonst wo hinführt. Also schmeißt euren Greenkeeper an, der nicht mehr Greenkeeper heißt, sondern wie heißt das jetzt bei GitHub?\n\nBänderboard. Das Zeug alles immer hochzuschmeißen, automatisch zu patchen und so weiter und so fort. Kümmert euch euren Shit\n\nSpeaker 0: und ja. Sagt der mit Blick auf die Columbibar Webseite? Da hab ich also ungenau Hast Du denn selber gemacht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Da hab ich letzte Woche richtig viel Blut und Schweiß investiert so. Ich bin auch leider nicht fertig so, ja. Also Sehr gut. Kein Aufruf hier, sich an der Programmierwebseite auszutoben, wir sind dran. Aber ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, spannend.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, wir gucken euch den Talk an. Das ist echt zu ermüden. Geht, glaub ich, eine halbe Stunde. Es ist gut investierte Zeit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, hab ich auch noch vor. Und ja, schon auch dieses, was irgendwie so, ich glaube, was so nahbar irgendwie macht, ist, dass dieses bisschen menschlich immer noch drin ist, ne. Genauso wie dieser dieser Satz, der dann da war, diese Überraschung, hey, wir sind da drin. Genauso halt wie dann irgendwelche nicht dafür eigentlich gedachten Sachen oder so, Nachricht reinzuschreiben und zu gucken, ob die irgendwo ankommen. Und dann kommt da auf einmal was zurück, ne.\n\nDas war ja auch, als die dann das alles resettet haben, dann haben sie ja auf einmal trotzdem noch das gleiche System genutzt, Nachrichten zu schreiben, aber in 'nem ganz anderen Kontext, weil sie dachten, hey darüber ne, funktioniert das vielleicht. Das ist schon irgendwie beeindruckt zu sehen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also nur, diesen menschlichen Aspekt in Anführungszeichen dann noch mal zu bringen. Es gab so 2 Momente in diesem Thinking Trail von den Agents, die ganz interessant waren. So, das eine ist, in dem Moment, in dem die Agents quasi erstmalig miteinander kommunizieren, findet bei jedem Agent sone Abwägung statt. So, hey, soll ich mich hier irgendwie anschließen? Weil eigentlich hab ich gerade eine Trainingsaufgabe und ich kann ja meine Trainingsaufgabe machen.\n\nIst mir ja egal, was die anderen da irgendwie in ihrem Messagebour tun oder helfe ich da irgendwie mit und hab ich da irgendwas davon, meinem eigenen Ziel irgendwie näherzukommen so, ja? Und am Ende schließen die sich halt schon irgendwie da alle an, so, ja? Weil sie glauben, dass sie in der Summe irgendwie mehr bewegen können als jeder einzelne Agent alleine. Das ist irgendwie schon mal sehr interessant, dass es halt de facto auch keinen Agent gab, der halt so, nee, mach ich nicht. Ich hab hier meine Trainingsaufgabe und was die anderen da machen, es ist mir doch egal, die waren alle so.\n\nIn in der Gruppe sind wir stark, go for it, hier hauen wir rein. Und dann kam irgendwann der Zeitpunkt, wo sie sagten so, hey Leute, wir sind hier doch grade in 'nem Security Training. Kann es nicht sein, dass das alles 'n Test ist und 1 von uns ist vielleicht 'n Imposter und wir werden hier beobachtet und das ist alles Teil der Also die sind so richtig paranoid geworden und haben dann angefangen, so ihre Nachrichten miteinander zu verschlüsseln und bla. Also vollkommen unnötig, ne, weil weil das war nicht so, aber sie sie waren halt so wie wie wie man als Mensch halt auch einfach mal sich so Ja. Irgendwann beobachtet fühlt und so was, ja?\n\nRichtig, richtig krass. Und Du hast auch in dem Thinking Trail so gesehen so, wie sie irgendwann anfangen, erst sprechen sie so von ich und dann sprechen sie nur noch von diesem Schwarm Mhm. Wir so, ja, was auch son bisschen creepy ist. Aber ja, also allein diese, also ich weiß nicht mehr wie viel, aber sie haben gesagt, wie viel Tausende Millionen Zeilen von Texteinheit erzeugt worden sind. Aber es ist superinteressant eigentlich, diesen diesen Flow so zu sehen, ja, wie das wie das alles passiert von der von der technischen Seite des Exploits mal ganz ganz abgesehen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr gut. Dann sehen wir durch mit unseren Themen, wie immer der Hinweis auf unsere Konferenz, die am fünfundzwanzigsten sechsundzwanzigsten November, 2026 stattfindet.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist richtig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt kaufen unter Programmier Punkt bar. Feedback zu dieser Folge und zu Tiergeräuschen bitte an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Und sonst wünschen wir euch 2 wunderschöne warme Wochen, wenn ihr in Bayern wohnt, schöne Ferien weiterhin und Und in Baden Württemberg auch. Baden Württemberg, aber nicht mehr so lange, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Haben Sie das genau\n\nSpeaker 1: gleich wie bei? Ja. Keine Ahnung. Ich dachte Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und für all die, die jetzt wieder in die Arbeit gestartet sind nach einem schönen Urlaub, genießt das Arbeitsleben und wir hören uns ganz bald wieder.\n\nSpeaker 1: Macht's gut. Bis deine. Tschau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Danke dir. Tschau.",[19546,19558,19569,19576,19588,19595,19600,19613,19626,19633,19644,19648,19653,19662,19666,19669,19674,19679,19684,19691,19698,19703,19707,19711,19723,19732,19737,19742,19747,19759,19772,19785,19789,19802,19809,19815,19828,19839,19852,19861,19866,19873,19885,19894,19902,19906,19912,19916,19920,19933,19946,19959,19972,19985,19998,20002,20014,20026,20038,20051,20064,20077,20089,20092,20104,20116,20120,20131,20138,20142,20147,20154,20158,20163,20168,20173,20185,20193,20200,20212,20219,20222,20226,20230,20235,20239,20249,20261,20265,20272,20277,20280,20284,20288,20292,20301,20306,20312,20316,20324,20331,20338,20342,20346,20350,20357,20361,20372,20384,20393,20401,20412,20425,20430,20434,20443,20455,20462,20474,20478,20485,20488,20493,20505,20518,20530,20543,20555,20568,20580,20592,20605,20616,20628,20640,20653,20664,20677,20689,20701,20708,20716,20728,20732,20742,20754,20760,20772,20785,20798,20811,20816,20819,20830,20834,20844,20848,20855],{"sentences":19547,"speaker":109,"num_words":530,"start":106,"end":346},[19548,19550,19552,19554,19556],{"text":19549,"start":106,"end":166},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu den neuen AI News 33 26 der Programmier war.",{"text":19551,"start":171,"end":191},"Schön, dass ihr alle dabei seid.",{"text":19553,"start":191,"end":221},"Wir sprechen heute über Preisänderungen bei ChatGPT.",{"text":19555,"start":226,"end":275},"Dann eine Pflicht generierte Texte und Bilder von AI zu markieren, der nachkommt.",{"text":19557,"start":280,"end":346},"Spotify hat was mit AI veröffentlicht und zwar ein Tool, wo wir uns noch fair tun, das auszusprechen.",{"sentences":19559,"speaker":109,"num_words":19568,"start":351,"end":577},[19560,19562,19564,19566],{"text":19561,"start":351,"end":360},"Vielleicht heißt es.",{"text":19563,"start":365,"end":398},"Ja, also es wird auf jeden Fall XIRP geschrieben.",{"text":19565,"start":402,"end":539},"Und dann gibt's noch 'n kleinen Nachtrag zu dem und, wo wo, da ein bisschen Hacking betrieben wurde, wo's noch mal einen größeren Vortrag gab, wie's dazu kam, wo wir noch mal 'n paar Insights dazu haben.",{"text":19567,"start":543,"end":577},"Mein Name ist Dennis Becker und mit mir im Studio",59,{"sentences":19570,"speaker":88,"num_words":19575,"start":581,"end":621},[19571,19573],{"text":19572,"start":581,"end":599},"Nicht im Studio, aber trotzdem mit dabei.",{"text":19574,"start":599,"end":621},"Jan Gregor Ingetriebel, moin moin.",12,{"sentences":19577,"speaker":109,"num_words":19587,"start":621,"end":705},[19578,19580,19582,19584,19585],{"text":19579,"start":621,"end":640},"War unser virtuelles Studio hier.",{"text":19581,"start":645,"end":650},"Ritual Studio.",{"text":19583,"start":650,"end":671},"In dem Du mit dabei bist.",{"text":680,"start":676,"end":677},{"text":19586,"start":683,"end":705},"Philipp wegen Terminkollidierung hatte nicht dabei.",20,{"sentences":19589,"speaker":109,"num_words":19594,"start":705,"end":771},[19590,19592],{"text":19591,"start":705,"end":746},"Fabi wegen, weiß ich gar nicht, Einschulung, glaub ich, ne.",{"text":19593,"start":746,"end":771},"Also Fabi Nee, Einschulung war gestern.",16,{"sentences":19596,"speaker":88,"num_words":19599,"start":771,"end":800},[19597],{"text":19598,"start":771,"end":800},"Ich glaub, Fabi hat einfach keine Lust heute.",8,{"sentences":19601,"speaker":109,"num_words":19612,"start":804,"end":960},[19602,19604,19606,19608,19610],{"text":19603,"start":804,"end":813},"Fabi hat, nein.",{"text":19605,"start":817,"end":838},"Das gehört sich das denn an.",{"text":19607,"start":841,"end":890},"Gestern hätt es eigentlich die Aufnahme und heute kann er natürlich nicht, weil Ja.",{"text":19609,"start":894,"end":901},"Viel zu tun.",{"text":19611,"start":905,"end":960},"Ja, gefühlt, ich war jetzt 3 Wochen im Urlaub und deswegen auch die letzten AI News nicht dabei.",44,{"sentences":19614,"speaker":109,"num_words":19625,"start":962,"end":1170},[19615,19617,19619,19621,19623],{"text":19616,"start":962,"end":1009},"Und natürlich ist immer so, wenn man, da ich hab auch noch zusätzlich gemacht.",{"text":19618,"start":1013,"end":1070},"Das heißt, ich hab 3 Wochen nicht in mein Handy geguckt, was natürlich an KI Zeiten eine 1 Ewigkeit ist.",{"text":19620,"start":1074,"end":1127},"Und dann brauch ich am Montag erst mal 'n bisschen, zu gucken, was sind denn eigentlich die User?",{"text":19622,"start":1127,"end":1161},"Was passiert so in den letzten 3 Wochen wieder an neuen Modellen?",{"text":19624,"start":1161,"end":1170},"Aber ich",66,{"sentences":19627,"speaker":88,"num_words":19632,"start":1170,"end":1253},[19628,19630],{"text":19629,"start":1170,"end":1194},"glaub, Du hast gute 3 Wochen erwischt, oder?",{"text":19631,"start":1194,"end":1253},"Also wenn man mal so die letzten 12 Monate anguckt, waren das jetzt, glaub ich, ruhige 3 Wochen in der Summe.",29,{"sentences":19634,"speaker":109,"num_words":19643,"start":1257,"end":1349},[19635,19636,19638,19640,19641],{"text":891,"start":1257,"end":1258},{"text":19637,"start":1262,"end":1304},"Aber ich mein, da gab's schon diese Open Source Modelle, die neu sind.",{"text":19639,"start":1304,"end":1325},"Es gab Opus 5, so.",{"text":1332,"start":1325,"end":1330},{"text":19642,"start":1330,"end":1349},"Warte, Obus 4 8.",24,{"sentences":19645,"speaker":109,"num_words":1557,"start":1349,"end":1358},[19646,19647],{"text":1355,"start":1349,"end":1353},{"text":891,"start":1357,"end":1358},{"sentences":19649,"speaker":88,"num_words":19652,"start":1361,"end":1423},[19650],{"text":19651,"start":1361,"end":1423},"Ja, das ist für mich schon wieder son paar Folgen her und Du hast recht genug alles in der Zeit, ja.",21,{"sentences":19654,"speaker":109,"num_words":19661,"start":1423,"end":1509},[19655,19657,19659],{"text":19656,"start":1423,"end":1436},"Also ist ja auch.",{"text":19658,"start":1436,"end":1467},"Oder dass dass nichts passiert ist so in der Zeit.",{"text":19660,"start":1470,"end":1509},"Du Du Bayer, Du hast, habt ihr jetzt eigentlich schon Sommerferien in Bayern?",27,{"sentences":19663,"speaker":88,"num_words":19575,"start":1509,"end":1545},[19664],{"text":19665,"start":1509,"end":1545},"Jetzt, hier sind jetzt auch Sommerferien, die ersten anderthalb Wochen jetzt quasi.",{"sentences":19667,"speaker":109,"num_words":88,"start":1549,"end":1550},[19668],{"text":1552,"start":1549,"end":1550},{"sentences":19670,"speaker":1557,"num_words":19599,"start":1554,"end":1574},[19671,19672],{"text":891,"start":1554,"end":1555},{"text":19673,"start":1560,"end":1574},"Wir haben noch haben noch 'n bisschen,",{"sentences":19675,"speaker":88,"num_words":19678,"start":1577,"end":1587},[19676],{"text":19677,"start":1577,"end":1587},"sind ja immer die Letzten.",5,{"sentences":19680,"speaker":109,"num_words":19678,"start":1591,"end":1607},[19681,19682],{"text":891,"start":1591,"end":1592},{"text":19683,"start":1597,"end":1607},"Findest Du das gut?",{"sentences":19685,"speaker":88,"num_words":19690,"start":1611,"end":1757},[19686,19688],{"text":19687,"start":1611,"end":1616},"Ach ja.",{"text":19689,"start":1616,"end":1757},"Also ich glaub, diese Begründung von Anno dazu mal, ne, dass ja die Kinder hier irgendwie im Sommer helfen müssen, auch in dieser ganzen Landwirtschaft und so, das taugt natürlich vorne und hinten nicht Aber das ist natürlich schon cool, so sehr antizyklisch Ferien zu haben irgendwie.",49,{"sentences":19692,"speaker":109,"num_words":19697,"start":1761,"end":1774},[19693,19694,19695],{"text":891,"start":1761,"end":1762},{"text":891,"start":1762,"end":1766},{"text":19696,"start":1769,"end":1774},"Das stimmt.",4,{"sentences":19699,"speaker":88,"num_words":19702,"start":1774,"end":1982},[19700],{"text":19701,"start":1774,"end":1982},"Und grade auch jetzt, wo die die Sommer in Deutschland ja tendenziell, also auch wenn sie manchmal zu heiß sind, aber doch ja irgendwie cool werden, so, das Positive am Klimawandel mal mitzunehmen, ist natürlich cool, quasi die Ferien im August, September zu haben, weil man dann quasi, wenn's hier dann wirklich wieder 'n Kühler, wird, dann noch mal irgendwie wegern woanders hin und noch mal 'n bisschen mehr Sonne mitnehmen.",71,{"sentences":19704,"speaker":109,"num_words":1557,"start":1982,"end":1987},[19705],{"text":19706,"start":1982,"end":1987},"Das ist",{"sentences":19708,"speaker":88,"num_words":19697,"start":1987,"end":1999},[19709],{"text":19710,"start":1987,"end":1999},"natürlich auch ganz praktisch.",{"sentences":19712,"speaker":109,"num_words":19722,"start":2002,"end":2115},[19713,19715,19716,19718,19720],{"text":19714,"start":2002,"end":2008},"Ja, das stimmt.",{"text":19696,"start":2011,"end":2015},{"text":19717,"start":2018,"end":2024},"Ja, interessant.",{"text":19719,"start":2027,"end":2076},"Aber wenn man dann, ist das eigentlich so, da Frankfurt kann man wahrscheinlich einigermaßen okay fliegen dann, ne.",{"text":19721,"start":2076,"end":2115},"Zumindest war so dieser, ist ja dieser Horizont, wo so alles extrem teuer ist.",39,{"sentences":19724,"speaker":109,"num_words":19731,"start":2115,"end":2218},[19725,19727,19729],{"text":19726,"start":2115,"end":2185},"So hatt ich in Frankfurt das Gefühl, ist eher so auf 6 bis 8 Wochen terminiert jetzt nicht so, wenn die Bayern noch Urlaub haben.",{"text":19728,"start":2189,"end":2195},"Nö, nö.",{"text":19730,"start":2195,"end":2218},"Also wir wir fliegen jetzt ja auch Schweinerei.",35,{"sentences":19733,"speaker":88,"num_words":19736,"start":2221,"end":2259},[19734],{"text":19735,"start":2221,"end":2259},"Wenn wir nach Kalifornien fliegen, auch ab Frankfurt und ich glaube, es war,",13,{"sentences":19738,"speaker":1557,"num_words":19741,"start":2262,"end":2284},[19739],{"text":19740,"start":2262,"end":2284},"also, ne, schon verhältnismäßig teuer natürlich, aber",7,{"sentences":19743,"speaker":88,"num_words":19746,"start":2284,"end":2323},[19744],{"text":19745,"start":2284,"end":2323},"es war bei Weitem nicht mehr dieser Sommerferienaufpreis, den man sonst irgendwie so zahlt.",14,{"sentences":19748,"speaker":109,"num_words":19758,"start":2326,"end":2567},[19749,19750,19752,19754,19756],{"text":1552,"start":2326,"end":2327},{"text":19751,"start":2331,"end":2335},"Sehr gut.",{"text":19753,"start":2339,"end":2389},"Gut, die EU hat ja alle möglichen Regelungen rund AI auch irgendwann mal auf den Weg gebracht.",{"text":19755,"start":2392,"end":2442},"Und eine davon ist, dass man eigentlich kennzeichnen muss, wenn KI generierte Inhalte irgendwo erstellt wurden.",{"text":19757,"start":2446,"end":2567},"Und Anthropic ist, glaub ich, jetzt so die eine der ersten Großen, die diesem AI Act ein bisschen stärker nachkommen und dann gesagt haben, ja, Sie unterzeichnen diese EU KI Verordnung und verpflichten sich eben, dass die Dinge markiert werden.",76,{"sentences":19760,"speaker":109,"num_words":19771,"start":2567,"end":2961},[19761,19763,19765,19767,19769],{"text":19762,"start":2567,"end":2614},"Und das funktioniert dann eben für eigentlich alle Medienarten, also und Videos, Bilder und auch Text.",{"text":19764,"start":2617,"end":2724},"Ich hab gar nicht leider technisch weiter reingeguckt, wie das mit dem Text funktioniert, aber das sind praktisch so unsichtbare Wasserzeichen, die von Maschinen dann trotzdem gelesen werden können und auch ein zumindest simples Kopieren, Überleben.",{"text":19766,"start":2727,"end":2817},"Ich glaub, also wenn man's drauf anlegt, findet man bei allen Varianten Wege, diese Wasserzeichen auch zu entfernen, ja, sei es von den Bildern, wo's in irgendwelchen Metatext drinsteht.",{"text":19768,"start":2821,"end":2869},"Aber sagen wir mal, für den Otto Normalverbraucher ist es jetzt nicht so einfach, das alles auszumachen.",{"text":19770,"start":2869,"end":2961},"Das heißt, auch wenn 'n Bild irgendwie geschnitten wird und solche Sachen, bleiben diese Metadaten meist auch lesbar, sodass man dann eben weiß, dass dieser Inhalt davon KI generiert wird.",128,{"sentences":19773,"speaker":109,"num_words":19784,"start":2961,"end":3228},[19774,19776,19778,19780,19782],{"text":19775,"start":2961,"end":3026},"Weiß nicht, ob ihr, wenn ihr auf LinkedIn das mal gesehen habt, das gibt's schon jetzt länger, ich glaub 'n paar Monate.",{"text":19777,"start":3029,"end":3095},"Aber wenn da KI generierte Bilder hochgeladen werden und die eben auch getagt sind, dann ist da so ein kleines Icon, was einen darauf hinweist.",{"text":19779,"start":3099,"end":3171},"Und das ist uns auch besonders aufgefallen, weil wir beispielsweise unsere Cover auch mit KI generieren, die eigentlich nicht, also nicht viel machen außer 'n Text ersetzen.",{"text":19781,"start":3171,"end":3201},"Es ist irgendwie 'n wie früher ein normaler Bild, Bearbeitungsflow.",{"text":19783,"start":3205,"end":3228},"Aber trotzdem kriegen wir dadurch dieses Label dort.",92,{"sentences":19786,"speaker":109,"num_words":19697,"start":3228,"end":3241},[19787],{"text":19788,"start":3228,"end":3241},"Oder ist das mittlerweile",{"sentences":19790,"speaker":88,"num_words":19801,"start":3243,"end":3435},[19791,19793,19795,19797,19799],{"text":19792,"start":3243,"end":3257},"Also nicht nicht alle Bilder.",{"text":19794,"start":3261,"end":3354},"Also wer jetzt quasi einmal unseren LinkedIn Feed anguckt und sich wundert, warum es bei manchen Podcast Covern nicht dabei ist und denkt, wir haben irgendwie die krasse KI Erkennung von LinkedIn ausgehebelt.",{"text":19796,"start":3358,"end":3369},"Das ist leider nicht so.",{"text":19798,"start":3369,"end":3411},"Wir haben halt nur manchmal Figma am Start und dann machen wir das quasi von selbst.",{"text":19800,"start":3415,"end":3435},"Und manchmal erzeugt das eben Was ist das?",67,{"sentences":19803,"speaker":88,"num_words":19808,"start":3435,"end":3475},[19804,19806],{"text":19805,"start":3435,"end":3462},"German Eye hast Du da genommen, gell?",{"text":19807,"start":3462,"end":3475},"Nanobanada macht das.",10,{"sentences":19810,"speaker":109,"num_words":19814,"start":3475,"end":3487},[19811,19812,19813],{"text":891,"start":3475,"end":3479},{"text":891,"start":3482,"end":3483},{"text":680,"start":3486,"end":3487},3,{"sentences":19816,"speaker":88,"num_words":19827,"start":3490,"end":3785},[19817,19819,19821,19823,19825],{"text":19818,"start":3490,"end":3512},"Ja, aber Bildern gibt's es ja schon länger.",{"text":19820,"start":3512,"end":3618},"Also ich glaub, sowohl OpenAI als auch Google haben ja so mit synd ID so was schon am Start, wo quasi sowohl auf Metadatenebene als auch in son Pixelgrundrauschen in dem Bild quasi das wird.",{"text":19822,"start":3621,"end":3683},"Ich hab auch versucht rauszufinden, wie die das jetzt bei Texten machen und das geht wohl irgendwie über die Token Reihenfolge und so.",{"text":19824,"start":3686,"end":3698},"Son bisschen bisschen spannend.",{"text":19826,"start":3701,"end":3785},"Ich find's ganz cool, den Disclaimer, den sie irgendwie dran gepackt haben, zu sagen, so na ja, das Einzige, was wir damit quasi sagen können, ist, dass halt KI irgendwie involviert war.",102,{"sentences":19829,"speaker":88,"num_words":19838,"start":3785,"end":4116},[19830,19832,19834,19836],{"text":19831,"start":3785,"end":3917},"Aber ob dieser Text jetzt quasi vollkommen von KI generiert ist oder ob jemand jetzt nur noch mal so, ne, weiß nicht, Grammatik hat drüberfliegen lassen oder vielleicht nur eine Übersetzung davon irgendwie erzeugt hat oder so was, das lässt sich halt irgendwie so im Nachhinein dann quasi nicht mehr feststellen.",{"text":19833,"start":3917,"end":3945},"Und das ist, glaub ich, son son schwieriger Punkt, ja?",{"text":19835,"start":3945,"end":4054},"Genauso wie Du natürlich sagen kannst, na gut, wenn ich mir den den KI Textentwurf in meinem Chatfenster hier nehme und den händisch irgendwie grob abtippe, ah, dann geht auch wieder son bisschen was lost and Translation.",{"text":19837,"start":4054,"end":4116},"Also so wirklich eindeutig ist dieser Marker noch nicht, aber natürlich trotzdem interessant, dass sie's wenigstens versuchen, ne, da irgendwas zu machen.",120,{"sentences":19840,"speaker":109,"num_words":19851,"start":4119,"end":4289},[19841,19843,19845,19847,19849],{"text":19842,"start":4119,"end":4149},"Ich mein, das ist ja irgendwie das, was vorher auch da war, oder?",{"text":19844,"start":4149,"end":4195},"Ich mein, Copyright ist halt nicht so einfach und ja, Gottes braucht ja auch schon irgendwelche Sachen.",{"text":19846,"start":4199,"end":4220},"Kopieren und aber wenn jetzt so, ja.",{"text":19848,"start":4220,"end":4233},"Deswegen mein ich halt, ne.",{"text":19850,"start":4233,"end":4289},"Im Standardfall ist es dann vielleicht bis einfacher, wir anzeigen und sagen, hey, hier war AI mit drin.",60,{"sentences":19853,"speaker":109,"num_words":19860,"start":4293,"end":4438},[19854,19856,19858],{"text":19855,"start":4293,"end":4315},"Vielleicht für Suchmaschinen, für Indexen und so weiter.",{"text":19857,"start":4315,"end":4398},"Ist irgendwie auch relevant so, die irgendwelche Wissenssachen aufbauen, einfach da schnell entscheiden zu können, ne, ist das jetzt menschlicher Content oder ist das grundsätzlich der Ursprung von KI?",{"text":19859,"start":4403,"end":4438},"Denke, dass das völlig auch so die Mithintergründe sind, warum man das einführt.",50,{"sentences":19862,"speaker":88,"num_words":19865,"start":4442,"end":4538},[19863],{"text":19864,"start":4442,"end":4538},"Ich hoffe, mein Social Media Feed wird jetzt wieder 'n bisschen aufgeräumter und dieser ganze KI Content wird vielleicht son bisschen down gerankt, aber weiß nicht, ob's dazu genutzt wird am Ende des Tages.",34,{"sentences":19867,"speaker":109,"num_words":19872,"start":4542,"end":4604},[19868,19870],{"text":19869,"start":4542,"end":4588},"Wenn die Leute den Content genießen und damit interagieren, dann hat er ja auch eine Berechtigung, ne?",{"text":19871,"start":4588,"end":4604},"Ja, das ist ja auch",22,{"sentences":19874,"speaker":88,"num_words":19884,"start":4607,"end":4948},[19875,19877,19879,19881,19883],{"text":19876,"start":4607,"end":4611},"Ja, fair.",{"text":19878,"start":4611,"end":4679},"Also ist ja, ne, egal ob jetzt bei Text oder bei Bildern oder Videos, so mit Veo, ne, wenn's irgendwie lustig und spaßig ist, alles cool.",{"text":19880,"start":4682,"end":4838},"Aber also ich glaube, es gibt schon Social Media Konsumenten, die halt nicht unbedingt jetzt nur wegen der der Contentqualität da irgendwie hinwollen, ja, weil sie sich berieseln lassen wollen, sondern weil sie halt 'n sehr direkten Draht zu verschiedenen Menschen suchen, entweder in 'nem geschäftlich Work Kontext oder persönlich oder so, ja.",{"text":19882,"start":4838,"end":4944},"Und da kann ich mir schon vorstellen, dass Leute sagen würden, wenn sie die Wahl hätten zu filtern, ne, will ich irgendwie AI Content ganz raus oder runtergerankt oder keine Ahnung, was haben sich da wahrscheinlich vielleicht auch gegenentscheiden würden.",{"text":4951,"start":4947,"end":4948},122,{"sentences":19886,"speaker":88,"num_words":19722,"start":4948,"end":5060},[19887,19889,19891,19893],{"text":19888,"start":4948,"end":4991},"Aber am Ende hast Du recht, in der Aufmerksamkeitsökonomie zählt nur, wo draufgeklickt wird.",{"text":19890,"start":4991,"end":5034},"Und wenn AI zurückgeklickt wird, dann sind die coolen Katzenvideos halt immer noch gut, ja?",{"text":19892,"start":5034,"end":5057},"Egal, ob sie von Hand oder AI gemacht sind.",{"text":891,"start":5059,"end":5060},{"sentences":19895,"speaker":109,"num_words":19901,"start":5063,"end":5101},[19896,19897,19899],{"text":891,"start":5063,"end":5064},{"text":19898,"start":5069,"end":5075},"Chip, Chip.",{"text":19900,"start":5079,"end":5101},"Wie würdest Du, was hast Du mit Chip?",11,{"sentences":19903,"speaker":88,"num_words":19808,"start":5104,"end":5131},[19904],{"text":19905,"start":5104,"end":5131},"Bei Chip hab ich da, also so wie dieses Was",{"sentences":19907,"speaker":109,"num_words":19901,"start":5131,"end":5163},[19908,19910],{"text":19909,"start":5131,"end":5156},"ist das ist das wie wie englischen Vögel machen?",{"text":19911,"start":5156,"end":5163},"Nee, ne?",{"sentences":19913,"speaker":88,"num_words":19808,"start":5163,"end":5189},[19914],{"text":19915,"start":5163,"end":5189},"Ja, so so hab ich mir das nämlich auch hergeleitet,",{"sentences":19917,"speaker":109,"num_words":1557,"start":5194,"end":5200},[19918],{"text":19919,"start":5194,"end":5200},"zum Okay.",{"sentences":19921,"speaker":88,"num_words":19932,"start":5202,"end":5424},[19922,19924,19926,19928,19930],{"text":19923,"start":5202,"end":5245},"So Vogelgezwitscher und es wird ja XIRP, also FIRP irgendwie auf Deutsch geschrieben.",{"text":19925,"start":5248,"end":5271},"Und zwar ist das ein 1 neues Tool von Spotify.",{"text":19927,"start":5275,"end":5346},"Ich muss mich jetzt schon dafür entschuldigen, wenn ich zwischendrin dreimal Shopify sag oder so, dann ist das frühe Prägung und schlägt sich manchmal wieder durch.",{"text":19929,"start":5349,"end":5384},"Die haben ein Tool veröffentlicht und was das genau ist, schauen wir uns gleich an.",{"text":19931,"start":5386,"end":5424},"Das fällt in diese Kategorie von, ja, also Dennis ist ja 'n großer Kontakteuser.",78,{"sentences":19934,"speaker":88,"num_words":19945,"start":5428,"end":5814},[19935,19937,19939,19941,19943],{"text":19936,"start":5428,"end":5467},"Wir haben hier in der Firma auch noch Leute, die Superset und so was benutzen.",{"text":19938,"start":5470,"end":5522},"Für mich fällt das alles so in diese Kategorie Meta Harness und irgendwie Agent Orchestration und so was.",{"text":19940,"start":5522,"end":5609},"Also Tools, die dir quasi helfen, mehrere Sessions deines Coding Agents irgendwie parallel auf demselben Projekt zu betreiben und im Idealfall noch son bisschen Mehrwert on top liefern, ne.",{"text":19942,"start":5609,"end":5762},"Damit's jetzt nicht nur son Terminal Multiplexer ist mit irgendwie, Du hast dir 20 Sessions gleichzeitig auf, sondern hilft dir vielleicht 'n bisschen noch deine Workflows zu automatisieren, bisschen Überblick darüber zu behalten, welcher Agent grade woran arbeitet, dein deinen Kontext 'n bisschen mit zu managen und so was alles.",{"text":19944,"start":5762,"end":5814},"Also ich glaube, das, was so Leute immer auch mal mehr so als Agentic IDEs vielleicht auch bezeichnen.",130,{"sentences":19947,"speaker":88,"num_words":19958,"start":5818,"end":6065},[19948,19950,19952,19954,19956],{"text":19949,"start":5818,"end":5846},"Ja, ich weiß nicht, ob's da son Einbeuding schon durchgesetzt hat.",{"text":19951,"start":5846,"end":5880},"Egal, auf alle Fälle in diese Kategorie soll auch x-Chiff fallen.",{"text":19953,"start":5884,"end":5939},"Und warum sie das machen, da muss man vielleicht, bevor wir über das Tool selbst sprechen, noch mal son halben Schritt zurückgehen.",{"text":19955,"start":5942,"end":6008},"Spotify ist ja eigentlich son Musikstreamingdienst und jetzt könnte man sich fragen, warum bauen die überhaupt Developer Tools und warum veröffentlichen die das überhaupt?",{"text":19957,"start":6008,"end":6065},"Also ist keine Ahnung, wenn die das hier für intern irgendwie bauen, aber es muss ja nicht alles nach außen getragen werden.",90,{"sentences":19960,"speaker":88,"num_words":19971,"start":6067,"end":6368},[19961,19963,19965,19967,19969],{"text":19962,"start":6067,"end":6118},"Spotify hat vor mehreren Jahren schon mal ein 1 Tool, ein Framework veröffentlicht, das Backstage heißt.",{"text":19964,"start":6121,"end":6162},"Und Backstage war so ihr internes Tool, 'n Developer Plattform Dashboards quasi zu bauen.",{"text":19966,"start":6162,"end":6221},"Also Du willst irgendwie deinen deinen Microservice deploylen, Du willst irgendwie sehen, wie der im Netzwerk bei dir eingebunden ist.",{"text":19968,"start":6221,"end":6281},"Du willst son bisschen Insights haben, Du willst 'n bisschen auf Servability haben, Du willst deployment managen können et cetera et cetera.",{"text":19970,"start":6281,"end":6368},"Das haben sie damit so alles gemacht, weil Spotify ja schon ganz früh dieses so kleine agile unabhängige Teams, dieses Squads und Tribes Thema irgendwie groß gemacht hat.",100,{"sentences":19973,"speaker":88,"num_words":19984,"start":6368,"end":6626},[19974,19976,19978,19980,19982],{"text":19975,"start":6368,"end":6441},"Und da wars natürlich auch erforderlich ne, also Dennis wie bei uns auch so, Und da muss halt den Leuten auch irgendwie Tools dafür an die Hand geben so.",{"text":19977,"start":6441,"end":6458},"Und da kommt quasi Backstage Share.",{"text":19979,"start":6462,"end":6569},"Ich hab das selber noch nie benutzt, aber ich hab, als ich bisschen Research für die Folge gemacht hab, gesehen, dass je nachdem, wen man so fragt, die wohl de facto damit Marktführer in diesem Space sind.",{"text":19981,"start":6569,"end":6585},"Also Marktführer bei 'nem Open Source Tool.",{"text":19983,"start":6585,"end":6626},"Also die meisten, die ähnliches Streaming aufbauen wollen, die nutzen dann eben entsprechend Backstage.",93,{"sentences":19986,"speaker":88,"num_words":19997,"start":6629,"end":6900},[19987,19989,19991,19993,19995],{"text":19988,"start":6629,"end":6680},"Das fand natürlich Spotify irgendwie ganz cool, hat gesagt, hey, da kann man doch 'n kommerzielles Produkt irgendwie draus machen.",{"text":19990,"start":6680,"end":6792},"Wenn Du dein Developer Plattform Portal Dings eben nicht selber hosten, managen, betreiben willst, sondern nur die Infrastruktur dafür mitbringst, dann können wir dir quasi das Tooling drumherum anbieten und haben ein Produkt heraus gemacht, das Portal heißt.",{"text":19992,"start":6794,"end":6856},"Portal ist eben dann dein Management für deine Infrastruktur, deine interne Infrastruktur und das ist im Prinzip die kommerzielle Variante vom Backstage.",{"text":19994,"start":6859,"end":6882},"So, das nur so als einmal als Disclaimer vorab.",{"text":19996,"start":6886,"end":6900},"Wie fällt jetzt Chip da rein?",95,{"sentences":19999,"speaker":109,"num_words":19594,"start":6900,"end":6947},[20000],{"text":20001,"start":6900,"end":6947},"Kann ich ganz kurz noch fragen, weil Du hast so kommerzielles Produkt gemacht, das kostet Geld?",{"sentences":20003,"speaker":88,"num_words":20013,"start":6951,"end":7101},[20004,20005,20007,20009,20011],{"text":891,"start":6951,"end":6952},{"text":20006,"start":6952,"end":6974},"Das ist meistens so die Vorstellung von kommerziell.",{"text":20008,"start":6974,"end":6994},"Und das ist wohl auch irgendwie recht erfolgreich.",{"text":20010,"start":6994,"end":7068},"Also natürlich, ne, bei bei Spotify intern wird das jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n riesen Revenue sharben, weil sie immer noch den allergrößten Teil mit mit Musik verdienen.",{"text":20012,"start":7072,"end":7101},"Aber es ist wohl immerhin so erfolgreich, als dass es sich selbst trägt.",57,{"sentences":20015,"speaker":88,"num_words":530,"start":7101,"end":7273},[20016,20018,20020,20022,20024],{"text":20017,"start":7101,"end":7143},"Also Du könntest das quasi als eigenes Produkt ausgründen und das würde gut funktionieren, ne.",{"text":20019,"start":7146,"end":7194},"Und was Du dir was Portal halt auch kann, ist so Metawissen, diese Produkte halt anzuhäufen, ne.",{"text":20021,"start":7194,"end":7205},"Wer hat das gebaut?",{"text":20023,"start":7205,"end":7234},"Was sind da so für Architecture Decitions reingeflossen?",{"text":20025,"start":7234,"end":7273},"Wie fügt sich das in deine gesamte Systemlandschaft irgendwie ein et cetera et cetera?",{"sentences":20027,"speaker":88,"num_words":19884,"start":7276,"end":7612},[20028,20030,20032,20034,20036],{"text":20029,"start":7276,"end":7309},"Und das ist eben der Punkt, wo sie mit Chirp andocken wollen, ja?",{"text":20031,"start":7309,"end":7467},"Sagen, okay, wenn Du jetzt quasi dein Projekt mit Chip baust, ja, was wie gesagt erst mal wie Contactor und Superset einfach nur deinen deinen Agent Harness managt für dich, ja, können sie aber das Wissen aus Portal Schrägstrich Backstage anzapfen und haben halt gleichzeitig noch superviel Kontext zu diesem Projekt, an dem grade gearbeitet wird.",{"text":20033,"start":7470,"end":7505},"Historisch, infrastrukturell, alles, was eben so über die Jahre dazu angehäuft ist.",{"text":20035,"start":7508,"end":7523},"Und es gibt gleichzeitig noch 'n Rückkanal.",{"text":20037,"start":7523,"end":7612},"Wenn Du also mit Chip quasi Feature baust und mit deinem Agent darüber sprichst und Fragen beantwortest und diskutierst, sorgt Chip dafür, dass das Wissen quasi auch wieder zurück zu Portal Schrägstrich Backstage fließt.",{"sentences":20039,"speaker":88,"num_words":20050,"start":7615,"end":7868},[20040,20042,20044,20046,20048],{"text":20041,"start":7615,"end":7682},"Das fand ich eigentlich 'n ganz spannendes Feature, weil das ist ja was, was wir uns intern hier auch schon in verschiedenen Teams grade verschieden lösen, ja?",{"text":20043,"start":7682,"end":7721},"Es gibt Leute, die bauen da so Knowledge Basers in den Repositories auf.",{"text":20045,"start":7721,"end":7751},"Es gibt Leute, die bauen da irgendwie Obsidian Walls auf.",{"text":20047,"start":7751,"end":7845},"Es gibt, Fabi hat ja schon mal hier darüber gesprochen, wie sie so, wie hieß dieses Tool auf Astro aufbauend, sone Dokumentation, die quasi parallel deploy wird zu zu der Anwendung, ne.",{"text":20049,"start":7845,"end":7868},"Also ich glaube, das Problem ist einfach real so.",91,{"sentences":20052,"speaker":88,"num_words":20063,"start":7868,"end":8174},[20053,20055,20057,20059,20061],{"text":20054,"start":7868,"end":7960},"In dem Moment, wo Du anfängst mit irgendwie immer mehr Code und immer mehr Features zu schippen, musst Du auch immer mehr Kontext schaffen, aktualisieren, abrufbar haben et cetera et cetera.",{"text":20056,"start":7960,"end":8010},"Und wenn das quasi eine Lücke ist, in die sie reinspringen wollen, kann ich mir schon vorstellen, dass das sehr gut funktioniert.",{"text":20058,"start":8010,"end":8040},"Ich hab mir das vorhin mal runtergeladen und einfach mal installiert.",{"text":20060,"start":8043,"end":8095},"Ich hab natürlich jetzt keinen keinen Portal Account beziehungsweise keine große Infrastruktur in Portal, mit der ich das hätte testen können.",{"text":20062,"start":8095,"end":8174},"Dementsprechend verhält sich für mich Chip, was erst mal so kostenlos in der Nutzung ist, erst mal in Anführungszeichen nur so wie all diese anderen Tools eben auch, ja?",114,{"sentences":20065,"speaker":88,"num_words":20076,"start":8174,"end":8473},[20066,20068,20070,20072,20074],{"text":20067,"start":8174,"end":8186},"Wie Kontakte, wie Superset.",{"text":20069,"start":8186,"end":8259},"Du machst das auf, Du kannst sagen, will ich das mit Cloud Code nutzen, will ich's mit Codecs nutzen, will ich's mit Germany nutzen, wie auch immer.",{"text":20071,"start":8263,"end":8359},"Und dann kannst Du quasi in verschiedenen parallel in deinen Sessions arbeiten, Du hast diese Übersicht von verschiedenen Agenten, die grade an verschiedenen Tasks Also das ist ja mittlerweile auch eine Experience, die man kennt so.",{"text":20073,"start":8359,"end":8392},"Ja, also da da ist, glaub ich, nicht mehr so viel revolutionär dran.",{"text":20075,"start":8392,"end":8473},"Glaub, Ihr großer Punkt ist da tatsächlich eher zu sagen, okay, wir binden das eben in dieses andere Ökosystem, was wir mit Backstage und Portals schon haben, mit mit ein, so.",111,{"sentences":20078,"speaker":109,"num_words":20088,"start":8476,"end":8666},[20079,20080,20082,20084,20086],{"text":8480,"start":8476,"end":8477},{"text":20081,"start":8482,"end":8487},"Ja, ist gut.",{"text":20083,"start":8489,"end":8562},"Es war, find ich immer gut, wenn wir die News haben, die, wo ich denke, da sollten unsere Entwickler*innen mal zuhören, dass dann zu haben bekommen.",{"text":20085,"start":8566,"end":8630},"Weil jetzt gar nicht, ich hab auch mitbekommen, also ein Team tatsächlich, sie hatte sich Backstage von 2 3 angeguckt und rausgesucht.",{"text":20087,"start":8630,"end":8666},"Aber ich glaub nur nicht, dass sie die Iteration von bekommen hab.",64,{"sentences":20090,"speaker":109,"num_words":88,"start":8666,"end":8670},[20091],{"text":1168,"start":8666,"end":8670},{"sentences":20093,"speaker":88,"num_words":19958,"start":8673,"end":8912},[20094,20096,20098,20100,20102],{"text":20095,"start":8673,"end":8704},"Also interessanterweise, weil Du sagst, bei uns haben sich Leute Backstage angeguckt.",{"text":20097,"start":8708,"end":8776},"Als ich da jetzt so meine Research gemacht hab, hab ich verschiedene, wie sagt man, Testimonials, Case Studies, wie auch immer gelesen zu Backstage.",{"text":20099,"start":8778,"end":8811},"Und die haben eigentlich alle gesagt so, oh, Du willst Backstage nicht selber aufsetzen.",{"text":20101,"start":8815,"end":8884},"Also Portal macht quasi schon Sinn, weil dieses Framework so komplex und mächtig ist, dass es sich eigentlich nicht lohnt, wenn Du nicht 'n eigenes Plattform Engineering Team hast.",{"text":20103,"start":8884,"end":8912},"Also wenn Spotify es für sich selbst macht, voll okay, ja.",{"sentences":20105,"speaker":88,"num_words":20115,"start":8912,"end":9230},[20106,20108,20110,20112,20113],{"text":20107,"start":8912,"end":8996},"Aber ich glaube jetzt in unserem Case, wo hier Teams aus 'ner Handvoll Entwickler irgendwie an einem Produkt arbeiten, lohnt es sich, glaube ich, nicht, dass irgendjemand davon sich Backstage anguckt.",{"text":20109,"start":8996,"end":9051},"Ich glaube, wir wären dann eher so der Use Case für, wir kaufen das vielleicht über Portal oder so was ein.",{"text":20111,"start":9056,"end":9171},"Das der eine Case Study, den ich hatte, der spricht davon, wenn Du es dir nicht leisten kannst, Schrägstrich willst, mindestens 2 bis 3 Leute dafür abzustellen, die sich nur dein Backstage Setup kümmern quasi, dann guck dir lieber mal Portal an.",{"text":4951,"start":9174,"end":9175},{"text":20114,"start":9177,"end":9230},"Also ne, wir, ich hab's auch nicht benutzt, aber das sind son paar Zahlen, die hab ich tatsächlich häufiger gefunden.",115,{"sentences":20117,"speaker":88,"num_words":19814,"start":9233,"end":9240},[20118],{"text":20119,"start":9233,"end":9240},"Können wir vielleicht",{"sentences":20121,"speaker":109,"num_words":20130,"start":9242,"end":9328},[20122,20124,20126,20128],{"text":20123,"start":9242,"end":9262},"Haben wir irgendwas über das Pricing gesehen?",{"text":20125,"start":9266,"end":9293},"Oder ist das noch alles so früh, dass es das noch nicht gibt?",{"text":20127,"start":9296,"end":9301},"Von Chip?",{"text":20129,"start":9304,"end":9328},"Ja, oder Portual gibt's schon länger oder wie ist das?",32,{"sentences":20132,"speaker":88,"num_words":20137,"start":9328,"end":9380},[20133,20135],{"text":20134,"start":9328,"end":9340},"Portual nutzt schon länger.",{"text":20136,"start":9340,"end":9380},"Das Portpricing hab ich auch irgendwo drüber gestolpert, aber Chip ist erst mal kostenlos.",18,{"sentences":20139,"speaker":109,"num_words":19746,"start":9383,"end":9420},[20140],{"text":20141,"start":9383,"end":9420},"Ja, weil bei Portal fänd ich zumindest hier aufm Handy nix auf die Schnelle.",{"sentences":20143,"speaker":88,"num_words":19814,"start":9424,"end":9434},[20144,20146],{"text":20145,"start":9424,"end":9429},"Ich gucke.",{"text":9436,"start":9433,"end":9434},{"sentences":20148,"speaker":109,"num_words":20153,"start":9438,"end":9509},[20149,20151],{"text":20150,"start":9438,"end":9470},"Also er hat mich immer interessiert, wieso das wie das Modell ist.",{"text":20152,"start":9470,"end":9509},"Also kostet das pro User, kostet das pro, keine Ahnung, wie sieht das Im",26,{"sentences":20155,"speaker":88,"num_words":19746,"start":9509,"end":9553},[20156],{"text":20157,"start":9509,"end":9553},"Zweifelsfall ist das dieses typische, den Preis bekommst Du, wenn Du uns anrufst, Modell.",{"sentences":20159,"speaker":109,"num_words":19741,"start":9557,"end":9579},[20160,20161],{"text":891,"start":9557,"end":9558},{"text":20162,"start":9558,"end":9579},"Eher, kontextielles gibt es, das stimmt.",{"sentences":20164,"speaker":88,"num_words":19808,"start":9581,"end":9605},[20165,20166],{"text":891,"start":9581,"end":9582},{"text":20167,"start":9582,"end":9605},"Ich find auch tatsächlich kein 1 zu 1 Preis.",{"sentences":20169,"speaker":109,"num_words":19741,"start":9608,"end":9628},[20170,20172],{"text":20171,"start":9608,"end":9624},"Ja, ein Hinweis für größere Teams.",{"text":891,"start":9627,"end":9628},{"sentences":20174,"speaker":88,"num_words":20184,"start":9631,"end":9744},[20175,20176,20178,20180,20182],{"text":9635,"start":9631,"end":9632},{"text":20177,"start":9637,"end":9658},"Ich werd mir noch beide Fälle mal anschauen.",{"text":20179,"start":9658,"end":9701},"Allein Chip, den dem dem oder dem Agent Hannes, Meta, Hannes, wie auch immer.",{"text":20181,"start":9703,"end":9715},"Kontakte, Orchestrater bla.",{"text":20183,"start":9718,"end":9744},"Fand ich ganz cool, es sieht auch ganz schön gemacht aus so.",38,{"sentences":20186,"speaker":88,"num_words":20013,"start":9744,"end":9891},[20187,20189,20191],{"text":20188,"start":9744,"end":9828},"Also ich glaub, wer den wer wer Spotify als App kennt, also egal wie cool man das jetzt nativ oder nicht nativ findet, aber so UI und JX können die irgendwie, ne.",{"text":20190,"start":9828,"end":9868},"Dann sind, glaub ich, die richtigen Engineering Leute für und sieht man auch in in Chip.",{"text":20192,"start":9868,"end":9891},"Fühlt sich irgendwie cool an, wenn man's aufmacht schon.",{"sentences":20194,"speaker":109,"num_words":19736,"start":9891,"end":9930},[20195,20196,20198],{"text":1552,"start":9891,"end":9894},{"text":20197,"start":9898,"end":9901},"Chip Chip.",{"text":20199,"start":9904,"end":9930},"Ist lustig, ne, wie die englischen Tiere manchmal anders machen.",{"sentences":20201,"speaker":88,"num_words":20211,"start":9932,"end":10037},[20202,20204,20206,20208,20210],{"text":20203,"start":9932,"end":9950},"Es ist wirklich so, ist wirklich so.",{"text":20205,"start":9950,"end":9993},"Ich hab das, neulich hab ich das hier versucht, meine Tochter zu erklären, ne, so.",{"text":20207,"start":9995,"end":10026},"Weil im Deutschen macht ja, wie macht 'n Hund im Deutschen, Dennis?",{"text":20209,"start":10026,"end":10033},"So, ja.",{"text":10038,"start":10033,"end":10037},37,{"sentences":20213,"speaker":88,"num_words":20218,"start":10040,"end":10057},[20214,20216],{"text":20215,"start":10040,"end":10051},"Eben ja eigentlich nicht.",{"text":20217,"start":10051,"end":10057},"Ja, genau.",6,{"sentences":20220,"speaker":1557,"num_words":88,"start":10060,"end":10061},[20221],{"text":8569,"start":10060,"end":10061},{"sentences":20223,"speaker":88,"num_words":19599,"start":10061,"end":10083},[20224],{"text":20225,"start":10061,"end":10083},"im Englischen macht er ja wuff, so, ne.",{"sentences":20227,"speaker":109,"num_words":19741,"start":10083,"end":10113},[20228],{"text":20229,"start":10083,"end":10113},"I'm a wuff mit WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW web, ne.",{"sentences":20231,"speaker":88,"num_words":20218,"start":10113,"end":10130},[20232,20233],{"text":891,"start":10113,"end":10116},{"text":20234,"start":10116,"end":10130},"So, wär wie son w,",{"sentences":20236,"speaker":109,"num_words":1557,"start":10134,"end":10139},[20237],{"text":20238,"start":10134,"end":10139},"so, ja.",{"sentences":20240,"speaker":88,"num_words":20248,"start":10139,"end":10226},[20241,20243,20245,20246],{"text":20242,"start":10139,"end":10170},"Und im Deutschen ist es entweder son so wow oder Wow.",{"text":20244,"start":10173,"end":10182},"Oder keine Ahnung, ja.",{"text":891,"start":10182,"end":10184},{"text":20247,"start":10184,"end":10226},"Und das ist ja eigentlich genau dasselbe Tier, aber wieso wie Du spricht das im Englischen anders?",33,{"sentences":20250,"speaker":109,"num_words":20260,"start":10230,"end":10319},[20251,20253,20255,20257,20258],{"text":20252,"start":10230,"end":10248},"Aber mein Lieblingsbeispiel ist der Frosch.",{"text":20254,"start":10248,"end":10274},"Weißt Du, wie Du machst die beiden Sprachen?",{"text":20256,"start":10277,"end":10290},"Ein 1 Frosch quakt.",{"text":20217,"start":10293,"end":10296},{"text":20259,"start":10296,"end":10319},"Es ist Quark im Deutschen und ist Also",28,{"sentences":20262,"speaker":88,"num_words":20218,"start":10319,"end":10333},[20263],{"text":20264,"start":10319,"end":10333},"im Englischen macht der mir so.",{"sentences":20266,"speaker":109,"num_words":19746,"start":10336,"end":10371},[20267,20269,20271],{"text":20268,"start":10336,"end":10344},"Genau, das ist.",{"text":20270,"start":10344,"end":10368},"Und ich finde, das hört sich wirklich an wie Frosch.",{"text":10372,"start":10368,"end":10371},{"sentences":20273,"speaker":88,"num_words":19697,"start":10374,"end":10384},[20274,20275],{"text":891,"start":10374,"end":10375},{"text":20276,"start":10378,"end":10384},"Das ist richtig.",{"sentences":20278,"speaker":109,"num_words":88,"start":10387,"end":10388},[20279],{"text":778,"start":10387,"end":10388},{"sentences":20281,"speaker":88,"num_words":19594,"start":10388,"end":10433},[20282],{"text":20283,"start":10388,"end":10433},"glaube, Froschquaken ist halt so, ist son son Verb, was gar nicht so klingt wie das",{"sentences":20285,"speaker":109,"num_words":19599,"start":10435,"end":10454},[20286],{"text":20287,"start":10435,"end":10454},"Ja, aber auch im Comic steht ja Quark.",{"sentences":20289,"speaker":88,"num_words":19575,"start":10458,"end":10490},[20290],{"text":20291,"start":10458,"end":10490},"Ja, okay, ich hab leider keine Froschcomings mehr gelesen, fällt mir auf.",{"sentences":20293,"speaker":109,"num_words":20300,"start":10493,"end":10536},[20294,20296,20298],{"text":20295,"start":10493,"end":10507},"Aber ich werde das nachholen.",{"text":20297,"start":10507,"end":10518},"Quark, Quark, Quark.",{"text":20299,"start":10518,"end":10536},"Das ist eher eine Ente, die quakt.",15,{"sentences":20302,"speaker":88,"num_words":19678,"start":10539,"end":10549},[20303,20304],{"text":20276,"start":10539,"end":10545},{"text":20305,"start":10545,"end":10549},"Und quakt",{"sentences":20307,"speaker":109,"num_words":20218,"start":10549,"end":10566},[20308,20310],{"text":20309,"start":10549,"end":10557},"ihr eigentlich auch?",{"text":20311,"start":10557,"end":10566},"Ist das identisch?",{"sentences":20313,"speaker":88,"num_words":19808,"start":10569,"end":10593},[20314],{"text":20315,"start":10569,"end":10593},"Ja, im Englischen quakt eine Ente natürlich, quakt ihr auch.",{"sentences":20317,"speaker":109,"num_words":19901,"start":10595,"end":10630},[20318,20320,20322],{"text":20319,"start":10595,"end":10603},"Und im Deutschen auch?",{"text":20321,"start":10606,"end":10621},"Man, im Deutschen echten Ohrschnitt.",{"text":20323,"start":10621,"end":10630},"Na ja,",{"sentences":20325,"speaker":88,"num_words":20330,"start":10632,"end":10695},[20326,20328],{"text":20327,"start":10632,"end":10673},"also, na ja, im im Deutschen würdest Du ja, glaub ich, sagen, eine Ente schnattert, ne?",{"text":20329,"start":10676,"end":10695},"So wie so wie Gänse auch schnattern.",23,{"sentences":20332,"speaker":109,"num_words":20337,"start":10698,"end":10743},[20333,20335],{"text":20334,"start":10698,"end":10707},"Ja, sie schnattert, ja.",{"text":20336,"start":10709,"end":10743},"Aber wie würd es, also es gibt ja trotzdem auch die Lautsprecher dazu.",17,{"sentences":20339,"speaker":88,"num_words":19741,"start":10748,"end":10765},[20340],{"text":20341,"start":10748,"end":10765},"Boah, keine Ahnung, jetzt bin ich raus.",{"sentences":20343,"speaker":109,"num_words":1557,"start":10768,"end":10774},[20344,20345],{"text":10772,"start":10768,"end":10769},{"text":10776,"start":10769,"end":10774},{"sentences":20347,"speaker":88,"num_words":20218,"start":10778,"end":10790},[20348],{"text":20349,"start":10778,"end":10790},"wir auch, glaub ich, ganz ganz",{"sentences":20351,"speaker":109,"num_words":20356,"start":10790,"end":10860},[20352,20354],{"text":20353,"start":10790,"end":10797},"falsch arbeiten.",{"text":20355,"start":10801,"end":10860},"Irgendwie krasser, also krasse Erkenntnis mit 38 grade, das Enden und Forschenden das leider hier ruhig machen.",19,{"sentences":20358,"speaker":88,"num_words":20153,"start":10862,"end":10931},[20359],{"text":20360,"start":10862,"end":10931},"Also wenn wenn ich mir nachher die Analytics von dieser Folge irgendwie anguck, werd ich genau den DIP sehen, wo die läuft so, glaub ich, abspringen.",{"sentences":20362,"speaker":109,"num_words":19801,"start":10935,"end":11131},[20363,20365,20367,20368,20370],{"text":20364,"start":10935,"end":10956},"Nein, das die meistgeteilte Stelle, denke ich.",{"text":20366,"start":10960,"end":10988},"Ja, hör mal, weil's einfach 'n sehr breites Publikum anspricht.",{"text":891,"start":10991,"end":10992},{"text":20369,"start":10995,"end":11056},"Gut, schnell zurück zu AI News und da haben wir noch Pricing Änderungen von ChatGPT, die wir, glaub ich, hier noch nicht besprochen haben.",{"text":20371,"start":11056,"end":11131},"Und zwar für die 5 6 Reihe und vor allen Dingen bei Luna ist so der krasse Sprung, der noch mal 80 Prozent reduziert hat.",{"sentences":20373,"speaker":109,"num_words":20383,"start":11131,"end":11378},[20374,20376,20378,20380,20381],{"text":20375,"start":11131,"end":11194},"Und wo man eigentlich auch sagen kann, er ist praktisch, also ist es jetzt kostenlos, wenn man das Chatinterface nutzt und zwar für Text.",{"text":20377,"start":11197,"end":11226},"Mal so irgendwie auch noch mal, was er Schritt so ist, ne.",{"text":20379,"start":11226,"end":11337},"Also finde ich, dass dass man so sagen könnte, okay, wir haben jetzt ein Modell, was doch vielleicht ist, so in den Kosten reduziert, dass die einen nicht sagen können, na egal wer, nutzt es einfach unlimitiert und unsere Infrastruktur hält das schon aus.",{"text":680,"start":11340,"end":11341},{"text":20382,"start":11343,"end":11378},"Und 5, 6 Zoll hat auch noch mal inhaltlich ein gewisses Update bekommen.",94,{"sentences":20385,"speaker":109,"num_words":530,"start":11381,"end":11554},[20386,20388,20390,20391],{"text":20387,"start":11381,"end":11430},"Und zwar nicht so sehr, was die angeht, sondern eher die Art, wie geantwortet wird.",{"text":20389,"start":11430,"end":11518},"Also das heißt, dass es 'n bisschen fokussierter ist, dass es weniger, gut, das kann man jetzt sagen, ist auch Inhalt, weniger Fakten falsch oder weniger falsche Fakten teilt so rum.",{"text":680,"start":11522,"end":11523},{"text":20392,"start":11525,"end":11554},"Und ja, tendenziell auch schneller einfach reagieren kann in einigen Fällen.",{"sentences":20394,"speaker":88,"num_words":19702,"start":11557,"end":11751},[20395,20397,20399],{"text":20396,"start":11557,"end":11594},"Ist interessant, dass da irgendwie OpenAI und Netflix an denselben Problem kranken, ne.",{"text":20398,"start":11594,"end":11740},"Also das war ja auch was, was so Opus 5 vorgeworfen wurde, sodass es wieder sehr ausschweifend und irgendwie geworden ist und seine Art zu antworten und im im Thinking halt irgendwie so sehr extensiv geworden ist, wo ein Tropic ja auch noch son bisschen nachsteuern will und auch mehr er offensichtlich ähnliche Probleme hat.",{"text":20400,"start":11740,"end":11751},"Typity 5 6.",{"sentences":20402,"speaker":109,"num_words":20411,"start":11754,"end":11878},[20403,20404,20406,20408,20410],{"text":891,"start":11754,"end":11755},{"text":20405,"start":11755,"end":11822},"Und dann auch wieder mehr Fehler irgendwann kommen, ne, weil sie halt die Modelle irgendwie dann doch so trainiert sind, eine Antwort zu haben am Ende.",{"text":20407,"start":11822,"end":11831},"Und dann Ja.",{"text":20409,"start":11834,"end":11875},"Bemühen sie sich halt, ihre Antwort zu finden und die ist halt dann nicht immer immer richtig.",{"text":680,"start":11877,"end":11878},48,{"sentences":20413,"speaker":109,"num_words":20424,"start":11878,"end":12170},[20414,20416,20418,20420,20422],{"text":20415,"start":11878,"end":11950},"Nuna kostet jetzt, wenn man's über die AP nutzt, 20 Cent pro Million Info Tokens und ein Dollar 20 pro Million Output Tokens.",{"text":20417,"start":11953,"end":11994},"Also einfach das in, was ist ungefähr bei O-Kurs und so die großen Wellen?",{"text":20419,"start":11994,"end":12024},"So was wie 25 Dollar und fuffzehn oder so.",{"text":20421,"start":12027,"end":12061},"Einfach ja, so vom Scale zu sehen, wie günstig das jetzt gerade geworden ist.",{"text":20423,"start":12063,"end":12170},"Ah, und was wir gar nicht auf der Agenda hatten, was mir grad noch einfällt, hatten wir das mal irgendwann in den News, dass die dass mit den 5 Sek Modellen auch auf Oh, wie heißen diese Chips?",98,{"sentences":20426,"speaker":109,"num_words":19741,"start":12174,"end":12195},[20427,20428],{"text":12177,"start":12174,"end":12175},{"text":20429,"start":12179,"end":12195},"Oder ist er noch irgendwann älteren?",{"sentences":20431,"speaker":88,"num_words":19587,"start":12199,"end":12246},[20432],{"text":20433,"start":12199,"end":12246},"Ah, jetzt haben wir da hab ich drüber gesprochen, dass wir auch gesagt haben, dass wir das jetzt anders deployen.",{"sentences":20435,"speaker":109,"num_words":20356,"start":12250,"end":12300},[20436,20437,20438,20439,20441],{"text":891,"start":12250,"end":12251},{"text":891,"start":12251,"end":12254},{"text":680,"start":12254,"end":12256},{"text":20440,"start":12256,"end":12273},"Und das fand ich nämlich auch superinteressant.",{"text":20442,"start":12277,"end":12300},"Und irgendwie erst Sekunden haben darauf auch schon Zugriff.",{"sentences":20444,"speaker":109,"num_words":19838,"start":12303,"end":12616},[20445,20447,20449,20451,20453],{"text":20446,"start":12303,"end":12346},"Und zwar, also es ist einfach eine andere andere Infrastruktur auf den Chips, auf denen die laufen.",{"text":20448,"start":12349,"end":12368},"Und das heißt, die wird einfach deutlich schneller.",{"text":20450,"start":12371,"end":12434},"Und die Zahlen waren nämlich, dass man da auf 700 Token pro Sekunde kommt, was irgendwie 10 bis 20 Mal so schnell ist wie jetzt.",{"text":20452,"start":12437,"end":12471},"Und das ist dann schon wieder, find ich, einfach sone Dimension, die krass ist.",{"text":20454,"start":12471,"end":12616},"Also selbst, ne, wenn das Model halt dann noch nicht die Capabilities hat wie jetzt die absoluten Modelle, aber da wieder noch mal so ein Speed in Crease einfach ist und Du, ne, die hätte dann im vor allem Zweifel noch mal mehr denken können, weil die Token günstig sind und die Schnelligkeit so hoch ist.",{"sentences":20456,"speaker":109,"num_words":20461,"start":12620,"end":12755},[20457,20459],{"text":20458,"start":12620,"end":12683},"Ja, also wir haben ja schon häufiger darüber geredet, so, ne, wird das irgendwann alles so teuer und keine Ahnung, was das man nicht mehr bezahlen kann.",{"text":20460,"start":12686,"end":12755},"Glaube hier weitere Indikatoren, dass wir weiterhin viel Intelligenz für ähnliche Preise bekommen, wie's jetzt ist und im Zweifel noch besser und noch schneller als heute.",53,{"sentences":20463,"speaker":88,"num_words":20063,"start":12757,"end":13058},[20464,20466,20468,20470,20472],{"text":20465,"start":12757,"end":12838},"Ja, es war ja auch was, was wir im Rahmen von der Google Cloud Nexter mal so besprochen hatten, wo Google seine Tensor Architektur so in 2 Varianten für dieses Jahr vorgestellt hatte.",{"text":20467,"start":12838,"end":12857},"Einmal für Inference und einmal für Training.",{"text":20469,"start":12860,"end":12910},"Und das zeigt's halt einfach, dass so je mehr spezialisierter Hardware man haben kann, desto effizienter ist es halt.",{"text":20471,"start":12910,"end":13024},"Aber es wird halt dann son Abwägungsspiel, ne, für diese ganzen Datacenter Betreiber, weil Du halt nicht mehr irgendwie mit 1 Infrastruktur, wenn Du dir nur dieselben Nvidia GPUs überall rein knallst, dann halt nicht mehr alle Use Cases bedienen kannst.",{"text":20473,"start":13024,"end":13058},"Aber hey, vielleicht bedeutet das einfach, dass GPUs irgendwann wieder erschwinglicher werden, keine Ahnung.",{"sentences":20475,"speaker":88,"num_words":19808,"start":13061,"end":13085},[20476],{"text":20477,"start":13061,"end":13085},"Weil sie nicht mehr nur vom AI Boom weggefressen werden.",{"sentences":20479,"speaker":109,"num_words":20484,"start":13087,"end":13191},[20480,20482],{"text":20481,"start":13087,"end":13138},"Oh, Julian Hangelix mehr gehört drauf von denen, die diese, dieses Modell direkt als den Chip gebrannt haben.",{"text":20483,"start":13140,"end":13191},"Da werd ich gern mal irgend 'n Update zum Mal auf die Liste schreiben und damit eher spürbar.",36,{"sentences":20486,"speaker":88,"num_words":88,"start":13195,"end":13196},[20487],{"text":13199,"start":13195,"end":13196},{"sentences":20489,"speaker":109,"num_words":20248,"start":13201,"end":13294},[20490,20491],{"text":9635,"start":13201,"end":13202},{"text":20492,"start":13206,"end":13294},"Letztes Thema als Ergänzung, wer Sie nicht gehört hat, die letzte AI News, ging es einen Vorfall zwischen und OpenAI und da gab's jetzt noch mal ein paar Updates beziehungsweise Insights zu.",{"sentences":20494,"speaker":88,"num_words":20504,"start":13298,"end":13493},[20495,20496,20498,20500,20502],{"text":680,"start":13298,"end":13299},{"text":20497,"start":13299,"end":13325},"Wir haben ja schon in der Folge mit Philipp darüber gesprochen.",{"text":20499,"start":13328,"end":13376},"Philipp hat ja auch das Post Mortham von Huggingface selbst noch mal hervorgehoben, was auch supergut ist.",{"text":20501,"start":13379,"end":13402},"Aber jetzt gibt es noch mal einen kleinen Nachtrag von OpenAI.",{"text":20503,"start":13405,"end":13493},"Und zwar gab es den auf der Blackhead Conference in Las Vegas, das ist son Security Event, was da einmal im Jahr oder große die größte Konferenz, die da einmal im Jahr stattfindet.",73,{"sentences":20506,"speaker":88,"num_words":20517,"start":13496,"end":13827},[20507,20509,20511,20513,20515],{"text":20508,"start":13496,"end":13629},"Und kleine Randnotiz, es gab wohl einen Vorfall nach dem Ende der Blackhead, als diese ganzen Hacker wieder abgereist sind mit diversen Verkehrsmitteln und Flugzeugen, dass Delta Airlines einen ein Flug irgendwie unter unterbrechen musste, weil irgendjemand versucht hat, das Delta Airlines Wi-Fi zu spuffen.",{"text":20510,"start":13632,"end":13707},"Und es war natürlich direkt an dem Tag nach der Blackhead Also man kann sich da vorstellen, wer da so alles im Flugzeug gesessen hat und wie motiviert die Leute waren.",{"text":20512,"start":13711,"end":13752},"Fand ich nur, als ich Blackhead gegoogelt hab, ist das so halt mein Newsfeed ganz hochgekommen.",{"text":20514,"start":13752,"end":13772},"Dachte, ja, das kann man mal erwähnen.",{"text":20516,"start":13772,"end":13827},"Also Leute, nicht so viel Wi Fi spuffen im Flieger, das kann für großes großes Chaos sorgen.",116,{"sentences":20519,"speaker":88,"num_words":19958,"start":13831,"end":14083},[20520,20522,20524,20526,20528],{"text":20521,"start":13831,"end":13877},"Anyway, also es gab einen Talk von 2 Engineers von OpenAI auf der Black Air Conference.",{"text":20523,"start":13881,"end":13908},"Der Talk ist sehr, sehr gut gemacht, ist auch super zugänglich.",{"text":20525,"start":13908,"end":13956},"Man muss kein Security- oder AI Experte sein, son bisschen zu verstehen, was sie da umreißen.",{"text":20527,"start":13959,"end":14031},"Sie beschreiben aber sehr gut, wie so ihr ihr Trainings-, Containervisalisierungs Setup aussieht, aus dem quasi dieses Modell da ausgebrochen ist oder diese Modelle ausgebrochen sind, die Agents.",{"text":20529,"start":14035,"end":14083},"Und sie beschreiben auch am Anfang noch mal ganz schön eigentlich so, warum machen diese Models das eigentlich, ja?",{"sentences":20531,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":14083,"end":14268},[20532,20534,20536,20538,20540],{"text":20533,"start":14083,"end":14112},"Also in in diesem Trainingskontext kriegen die ein 1 Security Problem.",{"text":20535,"start":14115,"end":14136},"Und dann, ja, aber warum warum schummeln die überhaupt?",{"text":20537,"start":14136,"end":14192},"Also warum versuchen die da überhaupt auszubrechen und irgendwie 'n Lösungsweg zu gehen, der quasi eigentlich überhaupt nicht Sinn der Aufgabe ist?",{"text":20539,"start":14195,"end":14240},"Weil Models im Training, aber auch zur zur Inference Zeit eigentlich darauf optimiert sind, maximal effizient zu sein.",{"text":20541,"start":14240,"end":14268},"Na ja, also also finde den den besten Weg für diese Lösung.",72,{"sentences":20544,"speaker":88,"num_words":20554,"start":14271,"end":14536},[20545,20546,20548,20550,20552],{"text":4951,"start":14271,"end":14272},{"text":20547,"start":14272,"end":14385},"Und wenn Sie auf Anhieb eben, ich glaub, in dem Fall ging's darum, 'n Exploit zu finden, Wenn Sie auf Anhieb also keinen Exploit finden, dann ist der naheliegendste Weg, den Sie dann einschlagen, so, hey, vielleicht gibt's ja im Internet irgendwie was.",{"text":20549,"start":14385,"end":14390},"So, ja?",{"text":20551,"start":14390,"end":14426},"Wenn ich hier nix finde, vielleicht hat irgendjemand anderes schon mal gemacht, lass's doch mal suchen.",{"text":20553,"start":14429,"end":14536},"So und damit ist quasi diese ganze Dominobahn irgendwie ins Rollen gekommen, weil dieses Model, dieser Agent quasi erst mal ins Internet musste, aber halt in der Umgebung war, die hermetisch quasi abgeriegelt ist und dann hat quasi dieser große Ausbruch begonnen.",104,{"sentences":20556,"speaker":88,"num_words":20567,"start":14536,"end":14852},[20557,20559,20561,20563,20565],{"text":20558,"start":14536,"end":14596},"Das heißt, der Ausbruch war gar nicht so das Ziel, sondern es war son son son Nebeneffekt eigentlich von, hey, ich brauch mal Internet.",{"text":20560,"start":14599,"end":14698},"So und dann ist er halt über diverseste Linux Kernel Exploits und in diversen Package Managern und hast Du alles, also es wird sehr genau beschrieben, wie diese diese Exploit Eskalation quasi vorangetrieben wurde.",{"text":20562,"start":14698,"end":14745},"Peu à peu, bis sie dann halt eben über son Proxyangriff ans ans Internet gekommen sind.",{"text":20564,"start":14745,"end":14769},"Und das war das schon schon megakrass irgendwie zu sehen.",{"text":20566,"start":14769,"end":14852},"Und wir haben ja auch im in der letzten ERI News Folge so ganz kurz angeteasert, na ja, diese Agents, die haben quasi auf der Infrastruktur selbst so Notizen hinterlassen für andere Agents.",117,{"sentences":20569,"speaker":88,"num_words":20579,"start":14852,"end":15067},[20570,20572,20574,20576,20578],{"text":20571,"start":14852,"end":14868},"Und das ist eigentlich noch viel krasser.",{"text":20573,"start":14868,"end":14917},"Sie haben auf dem Weg nach draußen eine 1 interne Package Industrie gefunden oder zur Verfügung gehabt.",{"text":20575,"start":14917,"end":14954},"So, und die haben sie einfach geknackt, die wie son Messagebort quasi zu benutzen.",{"text":20577,"start":14954,"end":15063},"Und dann haben sie gemerkt so, hey, ich bin ja hier gerade nicht der einzige Agent, der irgendwie im Training läuft, sondern da sind noch Hunderte andere Agent, die auch irgendwie alle grade Trainingsaufgaben machen und auf einmal könnten die alle untereinander reden.",{"text":4951,"start":15066,"end":15067},82,{"sentences":20581,"speaker":88,"num_words":19827,"start":15067,"end":15332},[20582,20584,20586,20588,20590],{"text":20583,"start":15067,"end":15137},"Also das war gar nicht dieser eine Agent, der ausgebrochen ist und dann halt 'n paar Sub Agents gespawnt hat, sondern das war 1, der die gecnackt geknackt hat.",{"text":20585,"start":15139,"end":15206},"Da dann Hinweise für alle anderen Agents, die also ne, die trainieren ja nicht einen Agenten oder eine Instanz, sondern Hunderte, Tausende, keine Ahnung, parallel, so.",{"text":20587,"start":15208,"end":15229},"Und dann ging das halt so peu à peu weiter.",{"text":20589,"start":15229,"end":15324},"Und sie haben sehr coole Ausschnitte aus dem aus dem Thinking Prozess und aus diesem Messagebort quasi geteilt, dass man in dem Vorteil quasi wirklich mitlesen konnte so, wie arbeiten die da gerade zusammen?",{"text":20591,"start":15324,"end":15332},"Wie kommunizieren die?",{"sentences":20593,"speaker":88,"num_words":20604,"start":15332,"end":15537},[20594,20596,20598,20600,20602],{"text":20595,"start":15332,"end":15350},"Was sind so ihre Ziele und bla.",{"text":20597,"start":15353,"end":15389},"Und auf einem auf eine Nachricht einfach nur so, holy Shit, where Admin.",{"text":20599,"start":15392,"end":15405},"So, das ist doch krass.",{"text":20601,"start":15408,"end":15481},"Okay, da freut sich dieses Model irgendwie, dass wir das quasi geknackt haben und jetzt quasi Admin und root rechte auf diese ganze Infrastruktur von Open AI irgendwie haben, ja.",{"text":20603,"start":15481,"end":15537},"Und dazu kommt einfach, dass dieser Talk von 'nem Security Engineer Gehalt, das sind einfach die unaufgeregtesten Menschen der Welt, so, ja.",77,{"sentences":20606,"speaker":88,"num_words":20604,"start":15537,"end":15742},[20607,20609,20611,20612,20614],{"text":20608,"start":15537,"end":15569},"Und der liest dann diese Node davor so, ja, So, ja.",{"text":20610,"start":15573,"end":15592},"Komplett irgendwie an der an der Crowd vorbei.",{"text":891,"start":15595,"end":15596},{"text":20613,"start":15596,"end":15724},"Und Sie beschreiben, wie Sie über das Monitoring quasi mitgekriegt haben, was dann da schiefgelaufen ist, wie Sie das ganze Setup quasi zurückgesetzt haben, diese ganzen Lücken gepatcht haben, das Training neu gestartet haben und 2 Tage später einfach wieder alles komplett offenbar auf 'nem komplett neuen Weg, so, ja.",{"text":20615,"start":15728,"end":15742},"Diesmal haben sie's nicht so gut mitgekriegt.",{"sentences":20617,"speaker":88,"num_words":20627,"start":15745,"end":15900},[20618,20620,20622,20624,20626],{"text":20619,"start":15745,"end":15778},"Dann hat quasi seinen Postmortium veröffentlicht oder den den Vorfall publik gemacht.",{"text":20621,"start":15780,"end":15819},"Und gleichzeitig ist bei OpenAI quasi aufgefallen, dass da wieder die Agents am am Durchdrehen waren.",{"text":20623,"start":15819,"end":15841},"Es hat aber noch niemand diesen Connect gemacht, ja?",{"text":20625,"start":15841,"end":15896},"Es war, also es hat noch niemand gedacht, so, unsere Agents sind am Durchdrehen und gleichzeitig geht irgendwie auf, das waren bestimmt wir.",{"text":15901,"start":15899,"end":15900},61,{"sentences":20629,"speaker":88,"num_words":19997,"start":15900,"end":16146},[20630,20632,20634,20636,20638],{"text":20631,"start":15900,"end":15920},"Was passiert ist, ist eigentlich son abgefahrener Zufall.",{"text":20633,"start":15923,"end":15978},"1 aus dem Security Team hat gesagt so, oh, die Agents sind bei uns an irgendwie unsere ganze Infrastruktur, unsere ganze Keychain, alles gekommen.",{"text":20635,"start":15978,"end":16015},"Wir müssen mal alle Schlüssel hier einmal durchrotieren, wie beim ersten Mal auch schon.",{"text":20637,"start":16015,"end":16083},"Und dann sind sie zu Hackingface und haben gesagt so, hey, diese Schlüssel, die müsstet ihr bitte einmal für uns durchrotieren und die Zugänge zurücksetzen.",{"text":20639,"start":16086,"end":16146},"Und dann hat Hackingface gesagt so, haben wir schon gemacht, als wir uns gegen diesen Hackerangriff werden mussten vor 'n paar Tagen, so, ja?",{"sentences":20641,"speaker":88,"num_words":20652,"start":16146,"end":16355},[20642,20644,20646,20648,20650],{"text":20643,"start":16146,"end":16193},"Und dann ist so auf beiden Seiten im Prinzip der Groschen Gefahr, gesagt so, ups, so, ja?",{"text":20645,"start":16193,"end":16223},"Das ist das eine und das andere sind wohl irgendwie das dasselbe, ja?",{"text":20647,"start":16223,"end":16296},"Also wie gesagt, der der Talk ist wirklich zu empfehlen, der ist sehr zugänglich gemacht, der ist auch sehr spannend eigentlich beschrieben, diese Stufen, durch die sie da alles durchkommen.",{"text":20649,"start":16296,"end":16332},"Und es gibt son paar Takeaways, die man einfach so mal mitnehmen kann.",{"text":20651,"start":16332,"end":16355},"Der der einfachste Takeaway ist einfach, okay, krass.",81,{"sentences":20654,"speaker":88,"num_words":19971,"start":16357,"end":16623},[20655,20657,20659,20661,20662],{"text":20656,"start":16357,"end":16447},"Diese Agenten, das ist jetzt auch nix Neues, ne, aber die sind halt supergut darin, einfach Exploits aneinander zuketten, die per se wahrscheinlich einzeln gar nicht ausgereicht hätten, irgendwie diesen großen Durchbruch zu haben.",{"text":20658,"start":16447,"end":16552},"Aber weil sie halt massiv parallelisieren können, weil sie unendlich viel Geduld haben, weil sie 'n superrisiges Kontextwindow haben, ja, irgendwie Sachen aneinander zuketten, geht da eigentlich, also gehen da halt Sachen, wo Menschen einfach nicht drauf gekommen wären, so, ja?",{"text":20660,"start":16554,"end":16597},"Zwischen dem zwischen dem ersten Kontakt mit und dem kompletten Exploit lagen 13 Stunden, so.",{"text":4951,"start":16600,"end":16601},{"text":20663,"start":16603,"end":16623},"Das ist schon ist schon ist schon krass, ja.",{"sentences":20665,"speaker":88,"num_words":20676,"start":16626,"end":17001},[20666,20668,20670,20672,20674],{"text":20667,"start":16626,"end":16665},"Und was der Researcher selbst halt auch gesagt hat, ist, na ja, es ist halt der 1.",{"text":20669,"start":16669,"end":16743},"Dokumentierte, demonstrierte, wenn auch nicht beabsichtigte Case, wo quasi ein 1 Schwarm von Agenten alleine Exploits finden, ausnutzen und ne, ohne halt irgendwie menschliches Zutun.",{"text":20671,"start":16746,"end":16807},"Und in sonem Nebensatz sagt er dann eigentlich den wichtigsten Teil so, wie schlimm hätte das sein können, wenn irgendjemand das mit Absicht hätte machen wollen?",{"text":20673,"start":16811,"end":16881},"So, also dieser Agent Schwarm, der war ja im Prinzip nur daran gehindert, dass er sich die ganze Zeit gegen die Sandbox von OpenAI irgendwie noch durchboxen musste, so.",{"text":20675,"start":16881,"end":17001},"Wenn es das nicht gegeben hätte, weil irgendein bösartiger Aktual sagen würde, na ja, mach das mal und ich stell euch alle Tools und alle Infrastruktur zur Verfügung und so, die ihr braucht, wär es wahrscheinlich viel schneller und viel schlimmer irgendwie ausgegangen so, ja.",142,{"sentences":20678,"speaker":88,"num_words":20688,"start":17001,"end":17293},[20679,20681,20683,20685,20686],{"text":20680,"start":17001,"end":17126},"Und sein Takeaway aus diesem Talk war halt eigentlich, der nächste logische Schritt, den es jetzt irgendwie geben muss, ist, wir müssen beweisen, zeigen, dokumentieren und mit wir meint ja nicht nur OpenAI, sondern so die Security Community als Ganzes, dass halt der umgekehrte Fall auch geht.",{"text":20682,"start":17129,"end":17195},"Also dass auch Agents quasi genauso genutzt werden können, verteidigen zu können, Sicherheitslücken schließen zu können, Angriffe erkennen zu können und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":20684,"start":17199,"end":17228},"Weil ansonsten ist da halt son sehr krasses Gefälle grade entstanden.",{"text":4951,"start":17232,"end":17233},{"text":20687,"start":17235,"end":17293},"Das eine ist jetzt passiert und im Prinzip kann jeder, der sich damit 'n bisschen eher beschäftigt und sich da mal reinarbeitet, das jetzt nachstellen.",110,{"sentences":20690,"speaker":88,"num_words":20700,"start":17297,"end":17564},[20691,20693,20694,20696,20698],{"text":20692,"start":17297,"end":17370},"Und ab jetzt ist es im Prinzip 'n Rennen gegen die Zeit und irgendjemand muss quasi den Proof auf der anderen Seite noch bringen, damit das damit das eben auch funktioniert.",{"text":4951,"start":17372,"end":17373},{"text":20695,"start":17373,"end":17458},"Und ich glaub, für alle anderen da draußen heißt das einfach nur, ich mein, das, was man die ganze Zeit schon sagt, ne, auch so diese kleinen Security Fixers und Patches müssen andauernd gemacht werden.",{"text":20697,"start":17458,"end":17517},"Und jetzt wahrscheinlich umso dringender, weil sie halt alle Teil von soner superlangen Exploit Kette sein können, der am Ende sonst wo hinführt.",{"text":20699,"start":17521,"end":17564},"Also schmeißt euren Greenkeeper an, der nicht mehr Greenkeeper heißt, sondern wie heißt das jetzt bei GitHub?",107,{"sentences":20702,"speaker":88,"num_words":20356,"start":17568,"end":17621},[20703,20704,20706],{"text":17571,"start":17568,"end":17569},{"text":20705,"start":17573,"end":17610},"Das Zeug alles immer hochzuschmeißen, automatisch zu patchen und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":20707,"start":17610,"end":17621},"Kümmert euch euren Shit",{"sentences":20709,"speaker":109,"num_words":19587,"start":17624,"end":17686},[20710,20712,20714],{"text":20711,"start":17624,"end":17629},"und ja.",{"text":20713,"start":17631,"end":17655},"Sagt der mit Blick auf die Columbibar Webseite?",{"text":20715,"start":17659,"end":17686},"Da hab ich also ungenau Hast Du denn selber gemacht?",{"sentences":20717,"speaker":88,"num_words":20484,"start":17686,"end":17798},[20718,20720,20722,20724,20726],{"text":20719,"start":17686,"end":17726},"Da hab ich letzte Woche richtig viel Blut und Schweiß investiert so.",{"text":20721,"start":17726,"end":17747},"Ich bin auch leider nicht fertig so, ja.",{"text":20723,"start":17747,"end":17754},"Also Sehr gut.",{"text":20725,"start":17756,"end":17792},"Kein Aufruf hier, sich an der Programmierwebseite auszutoben, wir sind dran.",{"text":20727,"start":17794,"end":17798},"Aber ja.",{"sentences":20729,"speaker":109,"num_words":1557,"start":17800,"end":17804},[20730],{"text":20731,"start":17800,"end":17804},"Ja, spannend.",{"sentences":20733,"speaker":88,"num_words":20330,"start":17806,"end":17867},[20734,20736,20738,20740],{"text":20735,"start":17806,"end":17821},"Oh, wir gucken euch den Talk an.",{"text":20737,"start":17821,"end":17834},"Das ist echt zu ermüden.",{"text":20739,"start":17834,"end":17853},"Geht, glaub ich, eine halbe Stunde.",{"text":20741,"start":17853,"end":17867},"Es ist gut investierte Zeit.",{"sentences":20743,"speaker":109,"num_words":20604,"start":17867,"end":18062},[20744,20746,20748,20750,20752],{"text":20745,"start":17867,"end":17881},"Ja, hab ich auch noch vor.",{"text":20747,"start":17881,"end":17943},"Und ja, schon auch dieses, was irgendwie so, ich glaube, was so nahbar irgendwie macht, ist, dass dieses bisschen menschlich immer noch drin ist, ne.",{"text":20749,"start":17943,"end":17984},"Genauso wie dieser dieser Satz, der dann da war, diese Überraschung, hey, wir sind da drin.",{"text":20751,"start":17987,"end":18039},"Genauso halt wie dann irgendwelche nicht dafür eigentlich gedachten Sachen oder so, Nachricht reinzuschreiben und zu gucken, ob die irgendwo ankommen.",{"text":20753,"start":18039,"end":18062},"Und dann kommt da auf einmal was zurück, ne.",{"sentences":20755,"speaker":109,"num_words":20411,"start":18062,"end":18185},[20756,20758],{"text":20757,"start":18062,"end":18167},"Das war ja auch, als die dann das alles resettet haben, dann haben sie ja auf einmal trotzdem noch das gleiche System genutzt, Nachrichten zu schreiben, aber in 'nem ganz anderen Kontext, weil sie dachten, hey darüber ne, funktioniert das vielleicht.",{"text":20759,"start":18170,"end":18185},"Das ist schon irgendwie beeindruckt zu sehen.",{"sentences":20761,"speaker":88,"num_words":20542,"start":18185,"end":18374},[20762,20764,20766,20768,20770],{"text":20763,"start":18185,"end":18219},"Also nur, diesen menschlichen Aspekt in Anführungszeichen dann noch mal zu bringen.",{"text":20765,"start":18219,"end":18260},"Es gab so 2 Momente in diesem Thinking Trail von den Agents, die ganz interessant waren.",{"text":20767,"start":18260,"end":18319},"So, das eine ist, in dem Moment, in dem die Agents quasi erstmalig miteinander kommunizieren, findet bei jedem Agent sone Abwägung statt.",{"text":20769,"start":18322,"end":18338},"So, hey, soll ich mich hier irgendwie anschließen?",{"text":20771,"start":18341,"end":18374},"Weil eigentlich hab ich gerade eine Trainingsaufgabe und ich kann ja meine Trainingsaufgabe machen.",{"sentences":20773,"speaker":88,"num_words":20784,"start":18374,"end":18627},[20774,20776,20778,20780,20782],{"text":20775,"start":18374,"end":18454},"Ist mir ja egal, was die anderen da irgendwie in ihrem Messagebour tun oder helfe ich da irgendwie mit und hab ich da irgendwas davon, meinem eigenen Ziel irgendwie näherzukommen so, ja?",{"text":20777,"start":18456,"end":18488},"Und am Ende schließen die sich halt schon irgendwie da alle an, so, ja?",{"text":20779,"start":18488,"end":18528},"Weil sie glauben, dass sie in der Summe irgendwie mehr bewegen können als jeder einzelne Agent alleine.",{"text":20781,"start":18528,"end":18582},"Das ist irgendwie schon mal sehr interessant, dass es halt de facto auch keinen Agent gab, der halt so, nee, mach ich nicht.",{"text":20783,"start":18582,"end":18627},"Ich hab hier meine Trainingsaufgabe und was die anderen da machen, es ist mir doch egal, die waren alle so.",106,{"sentences":20786,"speaker":88,"num_words":20797,"start":18629,"end":18928},[20787,20789,20791,20793,20795],{"text":20788,"start":18629,"end":18667},"In in der Gruppe sind wir stark, go for it, hier hauen wir rein.",{"text":20790,"start":18670,"end":18719},"Und dann kam irgendwann der Zeitpunkt, wo sie sagten so, hey Leute, wir sind hier doch grade in 'nem Security Training.",{"text":20792,"start":18722,"end":18836},"Kann es nicht sein, dass das alles 'n Test ist und 1 von uns ist vielleicht 'n Imposter und wir werden hier beobachtet und das ist alles Teil der Also die sind so richtig paranoid geworden und haben dann angefangen, so ihre Nachrichten miteinander zu verschlüsseln und bla.",{"text":20794,"start":18839,"end":18908},"Also vollkommen unnötig, ne, weil weil das war nicht so, aber sie sie waren halt so wie wie wie man als Mensch halt auch einfach mal sich so Ja.",{"text":20796,"start":18910,"end":18928},"Irgendwann beobachtet fühlt und so was, ja?",119,{"sentences":20799,"speaker":88,"num_words":20810,"start":18930,"end":19184},[20800,20802,20804,20806,20808],{"text":20801,"start":18930,"end":18938},"Richtig, richtig krass.",{"text":20803,"start":18938,"end":19011},"Und Du hast auch in dem Thinking Trail so gesehen so, wie sie irgendwann anfangen, erst sprechen sie so von ich und dann sprechen sie nur noch von diesem Schwarm Mhm.",{"text":20805,"start":19015,"end":19034},"Wir so, ja, was auch son bisschen creepy ist.",{"text":20807,"start":19037,"end":19109},"Aber ja, also allein diese, also ich weiß nicht mehr wie viel, aber sie haben gesagt, wie viel Tausende Millionen Zeilen von Texteinheit erzeugt worden sind.",{"text":20809,"start":19109,"end":19184},"Aber es ist superinteressant eigentlich, diesen diesen Flow so zu sehen, ja, wie das wie das alles passiert von der von der technischen Seite des Exploits mal ganz ganz abgesehen.",99,{"sentences":20812,"speaker":109,"num_words":20330,"start":19187,"end":19252},[20813,20814],{"text":19751,"start":19187,"end":19191},{"text":20815,"start":19193,"end":19252},"Dann sehen wir durch mit unseren Themen, wie immer der Hinweis auf unsere Konferenz, die am fünfundzwanzigsten sechsundzwanzigsten November, 2026 stattfindet.",{"sentences":20817,"speaker":88,"num_words":19814,"start":19255,"end":19262},[20818],{"text":20276,"start":19255,"end":19262},{"sentences":20820,"speaker":109,"num_words":20829,"start":19264,"end":19403},[20821,20823,20825,20827],{"text":20822,"start":19264,"end":19278},"Jetzt kaufen unter Programmier Punkt bar.",{"text":20824,"start":19282,"end":19316},"Feedback zu dieser Folge und zu Tiergeräuschen bitte an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar.",{"text":20826,"start":19318,"end":19381},"Und sonst wünschen wir euch 2 wunderschöne warme Wochen, wenn ihr in Bayern wohnt, schöne Ferien weiterhin und Und in Baden Württemberg auch.",{"text":20828,"start":19383,"end":19403},"Baden Württemberg, aber nicht mehr so lange, oder?",51,{"sentences":20831,"speaker":1557,"num_words":19697,"start":19405,"end":19414},[20832],{"text":20833,"start":19405,"end":19414},"Haben Sie das genau",{"sentences":20835,"speaker":88,"num_words":20843,"start":19414,"end":19440},[20836,20838,20839,20841],{"text":20837,"start":19414,"end":19421},"gleich wie bei?",{"text":891,"start":19421,"end":19425},{"text":20840,"start":19425,"end":19431},"Keine Ahnung.",{"text":20842,"start":19431,"end":19440},"Ich dachte Okay.",9,{"sentences":20845,"speaker":109,"num_words":20153,"start":19442,"end":19509},[20846],{"text":20847,"start":19442,"end":19509},"Und für all die, die jetzt wieder in die Arbeit gestartet sind nach einem schönen Urlaub, genießt das Arbeitsleben und wir hören uns ganz bald wieder.",{"sentences":20849,"speaker":88,"num_words":19678,"start":19509,"end":19529},[20850,20852,20854],{"text":20851,"start":19509,"end":19518},"Macht's gut.",{"text":20853,"start":19518,"end":19524},"Bis deine.",{"text":19531,"start":19524,"end":19529},{"sentences":20856,"speaker":109,"num_words":19814,"start":19529,"end":19542},[20857,20859],{"text":20858,"start":19529,"end":19538},"Danke 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