[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":38398},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fnews-38-26-ai-bremse-amp-wird-kostenlos-shopify-verlaesst-react-native-apple-reference-image":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":82,"speakerCount":83,"relatedPodcasts":84,"transcript":85},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":14,"cover_image":15,"banner_image":12,"speakers":27,"members":28,"picks_of_the_day":78,"tags":79,"tagsPrepared":80,"speakersPrepared":81},"1c51ace0-61d3-404b-95f0-d0f357f3ebb6","2026-09-17T04:00:00.000Z","news","38\u002F26","AI-Bremse \u002F\u002F Amp wird kostenlos \u002F\u002F Shopify verlässt React Native \u002F\u002F Apple Reference Image","news-38-26-ai-bremse-amp-wird-kostenlos-shopify-verlaesst-react-native-apple-reference-image","\u003Cp>Diese Woche geht es um den Ruf nach einer AI-Bremse aus dem Herzen der Branche, um den Coding Agent Amp, der ab sofort ohne Abo nutzbar ist, um Shopifys Doppelschlag aus Tailwind-Übernahme und Abschied von React Native und um Apples neuen Echtheitsnachweis für Fotos. Zum Schluss gibt es noch einen unfreiwilligen Backup-Reminder aus der Cloud.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Ihr wollt mehr davon live hören? \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcon.programmier.bar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Die programmier.con 2026 findet am 25. und 26. November in Bad Nauheim statt\u003C\u002Fa>, die Tickets werden knapp. Und wer bis Ende September bucht, bekommt noch ein T-Shirt dazu.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Den Anfang macht ein Thema, das es bis in die Tagesschau geschafft hat: Anthropic-CEO Dario Amodei plädiert in seinem Essay „\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fdarioamodei.com\u002Fpost\u002Fwe-must-pace-the-frontier\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">We Must Pace the Frontier\u003C\u002Fa>“ dafür, das Tempo bei der Entwicklung der stärksten Modelle bewusst zu drosseln. Spannend ist die seltene Einigkeit von Sam Altman und Elon Musk, genauso spannend sind die kritischen Stimmen, die darin vor allem Marketing und Haftungsvorsorge sehen.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Danach nimmt uns Garrelt mit zu Amp, dem Coding Agent von Thorsten Ball und seinem Team. Nach mehreren Anläufen beim Bezahlmodell, von API-Kosten über Werbung im Terminal bis zur Subscription, gibt es \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fampcode.com\u002Fnews\u002Ffree-agent\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Amp jetzt kostenlos\u003C\u002Fa>: Ihr bringt eure eigenen Keys oder Abos mit und zahlt nur noch für die Orbs, also die Remote-Rechner, auf denen eure Agents laufen. Wer Runner auf eigener Hardware betreibt, zahlt gar nichts. Passend dazu: Thorsten ist Ende November auf der programmier.con und spricht mit Jan im Fireside Chat über den Stand der Coding Agents.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Shopify macht Schlagzeilen mit dem Abschied von React Native: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fshopify.engineering\u002Fback-to-native\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Shopify baut seine Apps wieder nativ in Swift und Kotlin\u003C\u002Fa>, weil Coding Agents die Rechnung hinter einer geteilten Codebase verschoben haben. Jan bespricht, warum sich das Team für einen kompletten Neubau statt einer schrittweisen Migration entschieden hat, wie Specs und Checkpoints aus der Bestandsapp abgeleitet werden und warum die Trennung von Business- und UI-Logik dabei so wichtig ist. Und natürlich die Frage, die alle Flutter- und React-Native-Fans umtreibt: Braucht es Cross-Plattform-Frameworks überhaupt noch?\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Dennis berichtet außerdem von \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fsecurity.apple.com\u002Fblog\u002Fapple-reference-image\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Reference Image\u003C\u002Fa>, das mit dem iPhone 18 Pro kommt. Die Kamera signiert die Sensordaten bei der Aufnahme, daraus entsteht in Private Cloud Compute ein unveränderliches Original, das parallel zum bearbeiteten Bild in der Fotos-App liegt. Über eine Zertifizierungskette lässt sich später nachweisen, dass ein Foto wirklich so aufgenommen wurde. Ein Allheilmittel gegen Deepfakes ist das nicht, denn garantiert wird nur, was der Sensor gesehen hat. Als Baustein in einer Kette ist es trotzdem ein Fortschritt.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zum Schluss noch eine Randnotiz mit Lerneffekt: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.reuters.com\u002Fworld\u002Fmiddle-east\u002Famazons-aws-is-unable-restore-access-bahrain-one-uae-cloud-data-zone-after-war-2026-09-15\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">AWS hat mitgeteilt, dass die im Krieg beschädigte Region Bahrain sowie eine Availability Zone in den Vereinigten Arabischen Emiraten nicht wiederherstellbar sind.\u003C\u002Fa> Daten, die dort ausschließlich lagen, sind endgültig weg. Multi-Region und echte Backups sind eben doch keine Kür.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19817313-news-38-26-ai-bremse-amp-wird-kostenlos-shopify-verlasst-react-native-apple-reference-image.mp3","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=4zif7RedJR4",{"id":16,"title":17,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":18,"filename_download":19,"metadata":20,"type":21,"filesize":22,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":23,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":25,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"91229391-7346-4e54-b18d-0edd87f1b0a1","News Asset 38","91229391-7346-4e54-b18d-0edd87f1b0a1.jpg","News-Asset 38.jpg",{},"image\u002Fjpeg","1263998","2026-09-16T09:09:45.969Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-09-16T09:09:45.966Z",1500,[],[29,47,62],{"member":30},{"id":31,"first_name":32,"last_name":33,"occupation":34,"description":35,"normal_image":36},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":37,"title":38,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":39,"filename_download":40,"metadata":41,"type":21,"filesize":42,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":43,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":45,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",1024,{"member":48},{"id":49,"first_name":50,"last_name":51,"occupation":52,"description":53,"normal_image":54},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":55,"title":56,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":57,"filename_download":58,"metadata":12,"type":21,"filesize":59,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":60,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":61,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",{"member":63},{"id":64,"first_name":65,"last_name":66,"occupation":67,"description":68,"normal_image":69},"af60e6ac-beb7-4eff-8fe8-bb017558368e","Garrelt","Mock","\u002F\u002F Software Developer \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Garrelt bereichert das Podcast-Team mit seinem umfangreichen Wissen über eine Vielzahl von Tech-Themen. Seine Leidenschaft für Mobile Games hat er eindrucksvoll bewiesen, als er noch im Studium sein eigenes Spiel entwickelte.\u003Cbr>Wenn er nicht mit seiner kleinen Familie im selbst umgebauten Van die Welt erkundet, genießt er es, historische Burgen zu besichtigen. Garrelt findet den Ausgleich zwischen digitaler und analoger Welt spannend und integriert so viel wie möglich davon in seinen Alltag. Seine vielseitigen Interessen und seine Begeisterung für Technologie machen ihn zu einer wertvollen Ergänzung des Teams.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":70,"title":71,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":72,"filename_download":73,"metadata":74,"type":21,"filesize":75,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":76,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":77,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"a97e0bc1-29e6-46ce-ab1a-d85b738552f0","Garrelt CD","a97e0bc1-29e6-46ce-ab1a-d85b738552f0.jpg","Garrelt_CD.jpg",{},"672932","2024-07-29T14:31:27.028Z","2024-07-29T14:31:26.899Z",[],[],[],[],490,207,[],{"id":86,"service":87,"supported_features":88,"speakers":91,"raw_response":99},"0abee62f-2cb4-416c-959b-3b18f7b26562","deepgram",[89,90],"timestamps","diarization",[92,95,97],{"identifier":93,"name":94},"0","Jan",{"identifier":96,"name":50},"1",{"identifier":98,"name":65},"2",{"metadata":100,"results":117},{"transaction_key":101,"request_id":102,"sha256":103,"created":104,"duration":105,"channels":106,"models":107,"model_info":109,"diarize_info":114},"deprecated","01a0ab29-380f-76f0-87d6-b1c80947f86e","d59032e8b65e54f97291614910c5fb0c7734cf4e9cb3a8e750dadb3abeb1dbbe","2026-09-16T17:00:06.179Z",3109.803,1,[108],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":110},{"name":111,"version":112,"arch":113},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"model_uuid":115,"arch":116},"a9f85c2b-5afb-4b9d-b49b-492c43a01cfb","v1",{"channels":118,"utterances":26761},[119],{"alternatives":120},[121],{"transcript":122,"confidence":123,"words":124,"paragraphs":24876},"Hallo liebe Hörerinnen, heute ist Kalenderwoche 38, ja 20 22 und herzlich willkommen zu den Programmierball News. Ich bin endlich aus dem Urlaub wieder da. Der Jann ist wieder für euch am Start und mit mir im Studio sind Dennis Becker, Garil Smog. Wunder, egal, das ist die 1. Podcastaufnahme, die wir seit Monaten zusammen machen. Ja, krass. Wo war ich eigentlich? Habt ihr das zu einem gesagt irgendwie so, als ich gegangen bin so? Ich glaub, Dennis hat das gesagt. Er hat ist keinem aufgefallen. Mann. Hat keiner, er hat niemand geschrieben oder so, wo's grade Doch, wir sollten am Anfang konnten wir die E-Mail 5 nicht mehr beantworten, aber wir haben alle gesagt, Du kommst September. Ist dann automatisch sone Ja. Gerne. Genau. Ja, ist mir wieder da. Fein So wie Jan, guck mal. Was war eine was eine spezielle Folge heute? So wie was? So wie Jan, ja. Also Jan war zwar nur 2 Wochen weg, von 3 hätte ich's so nicht so beeindruckend, aber Du warst hier Monate weg. Konnte nicht so viel, wie nennt man das? Aber also ich wette gerne und ich haben eine ähnliche Strecke zurückgelegt in der Zeit einfach. Wahrscheinlich, ja. Meinst Du, mit dem Auto meinst Du? Ja. Ich fliege dazu, kriegst Du das natürlich nicht. Ja, na, ja. Wir wollen neben Fahrstrecken heute sprechen über AI und AI Bremsen und dass dazu ausgerechnet Dennis spricht, hätte ich vor 2 Wochen auch nicht gedacht, aber hey, Zeiten ändern sich. Wir sprechen Keine Meinung. Wir sprechen über den Amp Coding Agent und wir sprechen über Shopify und Native oder Nicht Native Apps. Bevor wir damit anfangen, noch 'n paar Housekeeping Sachen. Dennis machst Du diesen AI News Explainern noch am Anfang von jeder Folge? Dann wär jetzt deine Force Ja, wir können also falls ihr noch nicht mitbekommen habt, habt, dass wir jetzt nicht mehr explizite AI News machen, weil wir festgestellt haben, dass das natürlich in unseren Alltag mehr und mehr Einzug erhellte und vielleicht auch die AI News sich über die Jahre 'n bisschen entwickelt haben und nicht mehr nur Modell- und Parameter Updates gab. Von daher hier der Mix aus Dingen, die uns aus der Tech Welt begegnen und natürlich automatisch dadurch viele News, die aus dem Reihebrett gleichzeitig kommen, aber zusammen in 1 wöchentlich erscheinenden News Folge. Und was mit Philipp? Philipp ist immer wieder dabei, auch in diesem Format. Philipp, ob bist Du, letzte Woche war er da. Er ist heute nicht da, weil wir noch keinen gemeinsamen fixen neuen Termin in 1 Uhrzeit gefunden haben. Der allen passt. Das ist eine Aufgabe für Jan Träger im Getriebe, der diese Woche wieder am Start ist und das organisieren wird. Danke. Speaking of, diese Woche wieder am Start. Diese Woche ist nämlich auch Meet-up. Wenn ihr die Folge hört, habt ihr quasi, wenn ihr sie am Tag des Erscheinens hört Seit 4 Jahren. Abends noch die Gelegenheit, ganz schnell nach was nach Hause zu kommen, zum Programmier Barbecue. Fabio und Krishna stehen am Grill und außerdem gibt's einen Talk, einen Preview Talk von unserer Programmierkorn über AI und Image Upscaling und wie wir das hier so machen. Das ist ganz interessant. Und wer dann Bock hat auf die Programmiercon, der darf, kann, soll, muss sich jetzt beeilen. Die letzten, ich glaub 20 Prozent der Tickets oder so was sind noch da und nur wer bis Ende September sein Ticket kauft, kriegt ja sein T-Shirt mit dazu. Also Hobby Hopp, Dennis will ja wieder seine Saal Wette gewinnen und Dessert mitbestellen beim Catering und das machen wir nur, wenn ausverkauft ist. Ja. Dementsprechend Times Running. Das muss ich wieder anmachen. Das liest dann keiner. Ich weiß, Salvette ist, glaub ich, aber auch son son Ding, das das kennen die Jüngeren, glaub ich, gar nicht da draußen, oder? Das war jetzt, war jetzt schlechtes Framing. Na, der begriff schon. Na, jetzt halt doch. Also wer wie wie wie jung musst Du sein, nicht Wetten, dass geguckt zu haben? Ja, wenn Du da jetzt son son Gen-Z-Mensch bist, dann hast Du nie Wetten, dass gesehen, oder? Wann hört er das denn auf? 2009. Das mit Gottschalk? War das schon ziemlich lange her, oder? 2008 Euro. 2008, aber Du hast es ja heut jung geguckt, so mit 6 oder so. Also man man mit 6 drüber, dann durfte man ja durchaus schon mal wetten, dass gucken. Und wenn Du jetzt oder sag mal, einfach zu rechnen, 8, also dann war's Zweitausenderkinder, die sind jetzt 6 20, können sie noch grade geguckt haben, also unter 26 nicht. Ja. Also wenn ihr da draußen nicht wisst, was eine Seilwetter ist, dann lasst es uns wissen. Ja. Ja, ist ja wirklich interessant. Oh denn, ach so, das kommt am Ende. Das kommt am Ende. Und das finden die Leute auch raus. Ich traue das unseren Hörerinnen schon zu, dass sie, wenn sie uns erreichen wollen, das auch ohne unseren Hinweis zu finden. Macht's gerne, schreibt mir eine Mail und sagt, ob ihr euch schon Einmal an Garrett at Programmier Punkt bar schreiben, Garrett, was Saal Wette? Es ist Garrett. Sollten wir einrichten. Ich dachte, Dennis hat die alle mal eingerichtet, nachdem ich auch einnahmen wollte und so. Ich hab den Dave alleine bekommen, weil wir darüber gesprochen haben, der Podcast vorher, das ist schon nur onimand. Also ich hab's eine, ne? Ah, Aber ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob's gabelt app programmieren ist. Darf ich das? Oh, guck doch. Nee, nee, es ist früher bei mir war es ja, das Vornamen und so. Es gibt keine Nachnamen bei der Programmierwahl. Hashtag gerne per Du. Gut. Oh, gut. Dennis, erzähl uns was zu dieser AI Bremse und wer bremst da wen und warum und wieso? Ja, das sind wir mal gespannt, ob da überhaupt was gebremst wird und wie das wie das passiert. Aber letztendlich, zumindest finde ich, ist es wieder sehr in der Öffentlichkeit gewesen, ja, und damit mein ich, ne, auch ein Tagesschau Thema und sonstige Sachen so, weil's dann große Diskussionen ausgelöst hat. Anstoß des Ganzen, könnte man sagen, war 1 1 1 Brief oder ein Statement von Amaday, dem dem CEO von Athropic, der gesagt hat, hey, pass mal auf, wir sollten uns zusammenschließen und die Entwicklung von KI verlangsamen, weil uns das vielleicht gerade ein bisschen aus den Händen läuft und die Gefahr besteht, dass die Menschheit darunter leidet, was auch son bisschen Genau, eine Definition. Und er wiederum war aber son bisschen, inspiriert ist, glaub ich, das falsche Wort, aber die war, die Dinge, die ihn son bisschen in der Vergangenheit da beschäftigt haben, sind auch die Themen, die wir hier schon besprochen haben in den News Folgen. Also dieser diese verschiedenen Angriffe, die's ja mittlerweile gab, wo sich irgendwie Asians zusammengeschlossen haben und geschafft haben, aus Testumgebungen auszubrechen, obwohl sie eigentlich ein relativ klar definiertes kleines Ziel hatten. Hat auch schon dort auf jeden Fall dazu geführt, dass ja, dass dass sich da mehr Gedanken gemacht werden, okay, was sind da tatsächlich die realen Gefahren? Ein konkretes, eine konkrete Szenario, was er belannte dort in dem Schreiben. Es hat also gesagt, okay, wenn es so weiter geht, geht der davon aus, dass irgendwelche Schwärme von Agents in 6 bis 12 Monaten das Internet übernehmen können. So. Was natürlich schon recht gravierend ist, je nachdem, welche Intention dahintersteckt mit dem, was sie da tun. Und ja, ich hab auch eine Auslöser hat man auch, glaub ich, schon kurz drüber gesprochen, auch 'n relativ bekannter Mitarbeiter von Athropic hatte auch Und war und war damit auch relativ viel in in in in Newsendungen und so was unterwegs. Man hätte nicht was, es Also man muss auch nicht jetzt in 2, 3 Wochen irgendwie sein. Okay. Also in in, glaub ich, kurzen, letzten Zeitraum. Genau und 1 hat er gesagt so, hey, wir sollten uns zusammenschießen, denn am Ende bringt es nichts, wenn eine einzelne Firma irgendwie langsamer macht, werden die anderen genauso weiter tun. Und war so der Vorschlag, lass uns das erst mal in demokratischen Staaten tun, praktisch son bisschen die Kontrolle auch darüber hat, ob wir das zumindest machen und durchsetzen kann und danach im besten Fall natürlich auch in autoritären Staaten zu versuchen, das nachzuziehen und dort auch zu verlangsamen. Und Da hast Du eine doofe Zwischenfrage gestellt. Ja. Was meint er denn, wenn er sagt, verlangsamen? Heißt das einfach son Moratorium auf, wir machen keine neuen Models mehr oder wir sind dann restriktiver in den in den APIs oder in Harnesten von dem, was wir anbieten? Was will er denn da? Ja, gute Frage. Also er möchte am Ende irgendwie son Zeitfenster von ein bis 2 Jahren, die die er nutzen möchte für die Sicherheitsvorkehrungen. Also er geht einfach, er sagt so, wenn wir in der Forschung so ein bis 2 Jahre hätten, Sicherheitsregeln und uns darauf zu fokussieren, dass wir das Ganze sicherer machen, dann wär das schon 'n sehr großer Schritt. Aber ganz konkret so, also von wegen, wir schalten jetzt unsere Trainingsmaschinen ab, so konkret wird er da dann nicht. Das Ding ist auch, also das ist auch noch ein weiterer Faktor. Er sagt etwas, seit Sommer hat sich die Entwicklung noch mal so extrem beschleunigt der Modelle, denn also aus dem Grund, dass KI jetzt selbst KI Modelle trainiert, also dann diese selbstverschärknen Effekte, die da jetzt langsam zu tragen kommen. Und das ist halt der Part, der son bisschen aus aus dem Ruder läuft und wo man nicht mehr ganz weiß, nicht mehr hinterherkommt mit, wie groß sind denn eigentlich die Möglichkeiten und was sind denn die Sicherheitsmechanismen, die wir aktuell brauchen? Und genau. Interessanterweise gab's ja schon immer mal wieder son bisschen Vorstöße unter unterschiedlichen aus unterschiedlichen Richtungen. Fast ihm das mal ganz interessant war, dass sehr kurz später Sam Waltman von OpenAI gesagt hat, ja, findet er richtig. Und sie würden da gerne mitmachen und würden sich dafür einsetzen, dass man da eine gemeinsame Regelung findet. Und selbst unser Freund Elon Musk hat danach auf Ex gepostet, hat gesagt, Dario hat recht. Also das heißt auch Dame Zustimmung gezeigt, ja, dass das was ist. Kurze kurze Zeitnot irgendwie superinteressant find ich, ne, dass jetzt sogar die 3 Großen der i-Labs irgendwie vor 'nem Jahr, der hat Google auf jeden Fall dabei gewesen. Das ist irgendwie krass, wenn so vom, ne, von der war damals war Google über den Modellen, ich weiß nicht, das war, Germany 3 oder 150 3 wahrscheinlich, ne, irgendwie so top dort und immer dabei. Und wie schnell das passieren kann so vom vom Mininging, das ist jetzt nicht so, ne, Audi spielen nicht ganz vorne damit, das heißt, die der bohrt irgendwie die Meinung nicht, was, glaub ich, auch gefährlich ist, weil grundsätzlich werden sie wahrscheinlich aufschließen, ne, aber dass man das trotzdem nicht so im Fokus hat. Anyway, genau. Es gibt jetzt, glaube ich, noch nichts Konkretes, was da was da rausgibt praktisch rausgekommen ist, also es gibt jetzt noch keine Vereinbarung. Es gibt auch viele kritische Stimmen, die sagen, hey, auch wieder alles nur Marketing und letztendlich einfach nur son einmal boah, die Fähigkeiten sind so groß, deswegen müssen wir ja höher bewertet werden als eine der Motivationen, die dahintersteht. Und das andere, wir ziehen uns jetzt schon ein bisschen raus aus möglichen Haftungssachen, weil wir sagen, boah, das ist superschwer und wenn wir das jetzt nicht bremsen, haben wir's nicht hinter Kontrolle. Und wenn 1 jetzt irgendwas kaputtgeht danach, dann kann man sagen, ja, wir haben's ja gesagt, wir wollten's eigentlich langsamer machen, aber es wurde sich nicht darauf geeinigt. Also das sind son bisschen die kritischen Stimmen, die das eher als sehen ähnlich. OpenAI hat daraufhin auch gesagt, sie verschieben ihren Börsenstart und wollen das auch nicht machen. Es hat halt auch son leichtes Geschmäcklich. Meine Zahlen sind jetzt grad sowieso nicht so rosig, dass man sagt, ah, hey, okay, es wär total sinnvoll, dieser Zeitpunkt, aber ist jetzt auch 'n bisschen darauf Das Gute ist Ja. Die USA haben natürlich 'n fantastischen Präsidenten, den wo viele Nationen sich freuen würden, wenn sie ihn hätten. Oh, ich, was kommt jetzt, Alter? Was ist das? Ist die Spurgelt? Ich ich überleg grad, wo ich diesen Irony Disclaimer hier nachher einbauen muss, damit wir nicht von E-Mails überhäuft werden. Und ich irgendwie hoffentlich schaff ich das jetzt so so schnell. Oh man. Ich wollt das zitieren. Ich hab's leider nicht offen. Der gepostet hat, hey, es ist alles gar kein Problem. Man braucht keine Bremse, wenn man einen so guten Präsidenten hat, in Klammern, mit Warum IQ? Hi Hi Hi I im Kino hat die doch gesagt. Ja, ja. Nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee und hatte ja schon gegrüßt, dass sie langsamer sein soll und so weiter. Also sie kommt für die Zukunft. Das ist unfassbar. Also das es gibt so wenige, weißt Du, man man denkt sich ja manchmal, haben wir auch in Deutschland grade durchaus Probleme und so, sondern man fragt sich so, es es würde doch ein einzelnes Statement, was es so ist, also das liest, wie die man da argumentieren, also oh Wahnsinn. Wahnsinn, dass der mit so was durchkommt. Das ist mein Quatsch. Das ist mein Quatsch. Das ist schon so. Ja. 2 Fragen hab ich's. Die eine weiß es noch, die andere muss ich jetzt gleich noch mal überlegen. Ja. Was sagt denn was sagt denn China so dazu? Also was sind jetzt hauptsächlich die amerikanischen Firmen, die da zustimmen? Wie sieht's, wie steht China? Die haben sich, soweit ich weiß, bis jetzt noch nicht dazu geäußert und zählen jetzt, glaub ich, auch nicht zu den demokratischen Staaten, wo man sagt, okay, die die ziehen dann direkt mit. Ich glaube, man würde halt versuchen zu sagen, muss ich auch irgendwie zu überzeugen, aber wie das ablaufen soll oder welche Handhabe man da hat, ist natürlich schwierig. Und klar, das ist ja natürlich auch, ne, dieser extremen Machtkampf, der jetzt im Moment da ist. Deswegen ist ist ja auch das Schwierige, Du kannst halt nicht als Einzeldes Lab sagen, ja, wir machen's jetzt langsamer, weil dann machen's halt andere. Sonst war das doch nämlich schon mal das Argument, dass irgendwie alle USA Firmen gemeint haben, wir können's nicht machen, weil dann, ja, macht halt China weiter und dann ist auch nichts gewonnen. Ja. So, deswegen würd mich mehr interessiert, ob's da tolle Ambitionen und auch Gespräche gibt, die das global irgendwie versuchen zu Ende. Aber wer soll das machen, ne? Wenn das Ja, Trump Trump nicht macht, genau, ich wollt es grad sagen. Wer halt sone Einstellung hat, eigentlich ist nicht. Ja. Okay. Ja. Ach so, okay. Also, ja. Am Ende das, was ich halt super oder nee, was spannend war. Nachdem wir ja, weiß ich nicht, irgendwie so die ersten Monate des Jahres schon immer der allgemeine, dass einige meine Gefühl so war, okay, die Modelle ne, flachen sind, also oder die Weiterentwicklung der Modelle flacht ein wenig ab, ist ja schon halt interessant zu sehen, was jetzt noch mal für Sprünge in kurzer Zeit möglich sind und was vor allen Dingen bei den internen Modellen so teilweise einfach abgeht. Wo man einfach ja auch schon wieder weiß und sieht, es wird noch einen richtig mächtigen, ne, nächste Schritte geben. Und nicht ein, ja, vielleicht wird das noch besser, sondern ja, auf jeden Fall wird es noch Faktor Faktor x besser. Ich muss da immer an diesen einen Google Next Vortrag denken, wo der Mensch von Deep Mind auch so in 'nem Nebensatz sagt, na ja, könnten euch auch Modelle mit Kontext Windows von irgendwie 2, 3, 4000000 Tokens irgendwie anbieten. Es will aber nur grade keiner bezahlen und das könnte auch keiner wirklich nutzen, also machen wir's nicht. Was so vor 2 Jahren irgendwie schon so voll der Indikator war für, okay, was die alle noch so im Keller liegen haben, ohne wahrscheinlich jetzt noch viel Arbeit rein investieren zu müssen, wo sie einfach jahrelang noch draus schöpfen konnten, irgendwie immer besseres Zeug anzubieten. Will man wahrscheinlich gar nicht wissen. Yes. Garald, Du wolltest uns was über Amp und den Coding Agent erzählen und warum das besonders toll ist und warum das grade jetzt besonders interessant ist. Es ist grundsätzlich immer interessant. Ich glaub, ich mach den Disclaimer am Anfang und zwar Thorsten Beil, ein Mann, den ich, ist der, wie sagt man das, der schätze, ja, ich überleg, das ist zu krass, aber Also er war schon mal deinen Pick of the day hier, ne? Muss man Er war schon mal, genau, meinen Pick of the day mit seinem Newsletter, den find ich auch immer noch gut. Und der Liebe kommt übrigens auch zu Programmiercon und wir machen so eine Art, ich weiß nicht, ob ihr das schon definiert, wie das Format ist, sone Art Live Podcast oder so was? Ja, ich hab das mal so, im in der Agenda steht das so als Fireside Chat, so. Es ist keine Ja. Keine Session mit Vortrag, so. Wir quatschen mal über State of AI. Okay. Mal gucken, was draus wird. Ich freu mich auf jeden Fall drauf. Was wird. Und Thorsten Ball ist Co Founder von Amp. Was ist Amp? Kennt, kennt ihr das? Ja. Brauste, ja. Dennis, komm. Erklärst Du mal. Ja, da alle daraus, gleich noch besser. Amp ist ein Coding Agent, vergleichbar würde ich sagen, mit Cloud Code oder Codex hauptsächlich in der CLI. Und es ist eben so, dass sie aber anders als natürlich Cloud keinen eigenen, keine eigene AI anbieten. Das heißt, man nutzt dann Cloud oder ChatGPT als AI hinter diesem Agent, aber man ist auch nicht gebunden an einen AI. Und ich sag mal, was die News jetzt ist, also was sich grad geändert hat, ist, dass sie noch mal zum, ich glaub, dritten oder vierten Mal jetzt das Bezahlmodell geändert haben. Da wurde viel ausprobiert, was ich grundsätzlich erst mal gut finde. Also ich glaub, sie versuchen den besten Fit für die Nutzer zu finden. Und es ging los damit, dass man einfach das bezahlt hat, was die Tokens in der API gekostet haben. Das war aber irgendwie nicht so ganz praktikabel, weil die API Kosten ja meistens deutlich teurer sind als das, was man bekommt, wenn man eine Subscription hat. Dann haben Sie, was ich auch interessant finde, eine Zeit lang versucht, über Werbung das zu finanzieren, dass es eben kostenlos war und man Werbung im Terminal gesehen hat. Das konnte sich aber auch nicht wirklich rechnen mit denen, was die was die Tokens gekostet haben, haben sie wieder ausgebaut. Und was sie jetzt sagen, ist, okay, wir bezahlen, wir machen das gar nicht mehr über die API Tokens, sondern ihr bringt eure Subscription nicht. Das heißt, man bezahlt jetzt nichts mehr für Amp an sich. Es gibt, Entschuldigung, ich hab 1 vergessen, vor den nach den Ads gab's auch noch eine Subscription, die man bezahlt hat, also 20 20 Dollar, glaub ich, war das im Monat. Und dann hat man's auch über die Tokens gemacht. Und jetzt sagen sie eben, okay, das lassen wir einfach weg. App gibt und ihr bringt einfach eure Tokens mit oder eure Subscriptions und könnt die darin nutzen. Und gleichzeitig, was Sie auch noch mitgebracht haben, was eher sonem Nebensatz kommt, was ich aber trotzdem sehr wichtig finde, ist, dass Sie auch versprechen, dass Sie die Daten nicht mehr oder sehr minimal verwenden, die man da reingibt. Das war vorher nur in den Enterprise, in der Enterprise Paket, das ist jetzt auch für jeden mit drin. Das heißt, ich würde sagen, dadurch wird Amp generell einfach attraktiver für fast jeder Mann und jeder Frau. Ist das nun das richtig? Ja. Alle, weil ich denke, mittlerweile hat fast jeder von uns eine Subscription und Amp ist dadurch viel, viel zugänglicher. Und was man aber noch bezahlt bei Amp, ist sogenannte Orbs, weil das ist praktisch der Promis von Amp und warum Amp auch spannend ist gegenüber zum Beispiel Open Code oder Pi, was ja auch sind, die aber alle nur lokal laufen. Und was der Promis von, den ich's auch sehr cool finde, ist, es gibt keinen Vendorlog in, weil wir eben nicht auf irgend eine angewiesen sind, aber man hat trotzdem alle Benefits, die man bei zum Beispiel Clayw Code hat, dass man Remote Sessions hat, dass man von überall aus immer auf die Sessions zugreifen kann, dass man auf dem Rechner, auf dem Handy, von überall auf die gleiche Session zugreifen kann. Und die ganze Flexibilität, die wir mittlerweile haben, wenn wir mit Codex oder Cloud Code arbeiten, bietet Amp auch. Teilweise sogar noch mehr. Zum Beispiel gibt's sogenannte, ich glaub, Siddenz Multiplayer Session, nicht mehr unsicher grade, wo man eben auch zu zweit mit Kollegen, also zu dritt, in 1 Session arbeiten kann. Und das find ich erst mal 'n coolen Promis. Also Sie wollen die gleiche Funktionalität bieten, wie es die Frontier Kolleg Agents auch machen, nur eben ohne, dass man angewiesen ist auf ein 1, was ist sowieso generell immer für sinnvoll heißt, ja, man sieht nicht auf eine. Das ist jetzt so wie, Du sagst, eine Gemenay war Topmodel und jetzt ist irgendwie nicht mehr relevant. Ja, viel gesagt, ich hab irgendwann 'n Faden verloren. Ich glaub, es wird einfach cooler dadurch, dass es for free ist, dass man's flexibel benutzen kann. Ich find's cool, dass sie viele Versuche machen, das richtige Modell für ihr Produkt zu finden. Ich hab das Gefühl, das könnte was sein, was längerfristig stehen bleibt. Ja. Ich fand's auch cool, dass Du diese diese auch selber betreiben kannst. Also wenn Du sie nicht da kaufen willst, sondern auf deiner eigenen Infrastruktur dieses ganze Zeug laufen lassen willst, fand ich Gut. Ganz nett. Gut, dass Du's sagst, genau, man kann's auch lokal laufen lassen, dann verlierst Du aber manche eine Funktion. Also Multiplayer Sessions zum Beispiel gehen dann nicht mehr und noch ein, 2 andere Dinge. Das muss man mitbedenken, genau. Aber sonst geht's auch. Die Johannes ist aber grundsätzlich dann identisch unabhängig davon, welches Modell Du nutzt. Ja. Was sie sogar haben, das find ich ganz cool, sie sagen, ich weiß nicht, wie das dann am Ende funktioniert, wenn Du nur ein 1 Subscription mitbringst, aber sie sagen oder was sie auch vorher gemacht hat, heißt, Du bachst gar kein Model aus, sondern sie wählen ja immer das beste Model für dich aus, je nachdem, was Du was Du haben möchtest. Das fand ich auch sehr spannend. Ich frag mich nur, weil oft hört man ja auch, dass halt so die Kombination aus Model Ja. Irgendwie, dass es die so erfolgreich dann ist. Ja, und deswegen ist vielleicht gar nicht so einfach, es eine universelle zu schreiben, ja, damit unterschiedliche Modellen funktioniert, weil dann halt auf die ein Eigenheiten der Modelle nicht so stark eingegangen werden kann. Aber vielleicht passen ja trotzdem auch im Hintergrund irgendwie noch Promptern oder so, je nachdem, in welches in welches Ding Du läufst. Ich weiß, am Ende war es nicht so genau, aber dadurch, dass sie die Model ja auswählen für dich, würde man hoffen, dass sie dann auch das beste Model, was zu in Paris passiert ist, auswählen. Jo, was halt verfügbar ist, wenn Du jetzt nur noch Das ist vielleicht doch 'n bisschen der Nachteil, ne, weil oft hat man ja auch eine Sub gibt's schon. Und vorher hattest Du eben sozusagen die Berufe auf alle Models. Mhm. Ja. Was sehen? Ich muss es mal testen. Ich stell mir nie, ich hab's noch nie benutzt. Ich werd's mal testen. Ich muss sagen, ich war ewig lang auf der bei denen, weil sie ja son bisschen wegen Überfüllung geschlossen waren eine Zeit lang, als sie so sehr am Kommen waren. Und jetzt, wo sie diesen Fried hier haben, versuche ich's vielleicht noch mal. Weil ich find's im Prinzip auch ganz cool so, ne. Also vielleicht kommen wir jetzt endlich in diese Phase, wo so Harneße ähnlich wie so IDIs halt son bisschen freier auswählbar sind, ja, und Du nicht nur an die ein oder 2 großen irgendwie halt gebunden bist, so. Schau, Es ist auf jeden Fall der richtige Bett, ne, weil so was wie Open Code, ich weiß nicht, ob die sowas mittlerweile auch anbieten, aber so Remo Sessions und so, das ist schon, weiß jetzt Zellen mittlerweile bei mir, also. Ja, ich weiß auch gar nicht, gibt es, Cloudcode ist ja auch mittlerweile als eine richtig coole UI verfügbar, wo der Browser und alles Mögliche drin ist. Ja. Gibt es das auch schon so Open Source mäßig? Also nichts an einen eine AI Zukunft? Nix. Nee, ich überleg grad, welche Funktionalitäten. Also grundsätzlich, so Interface und unterschiedliche Optionen und so was, ja, und auch Browser, User, mein ich. So Sachen. Und andererseits, ja, irgendwie entwickelt sich das trotzdem gefühlt immer so auch, also auch die großen beiden immer weiter, ne. Und irgendwie ganz cool, dass er daade Features ist, was wir da her. Ist wahrscheinlich gar nicht so einfach, da immer hinterher zu sein oder dann das Neue zu finden, was man das spannender ist. Aber trotzdem ist es ja schon so, dass wir grade bei Codecs und Cloud Code irgendwie immer sehen, dass sie einander hinterherrennen, ne? Also irgendjemand hatte so den Toilettenmodus zuerst, wie der bei uns immer hieß und dann kam es halt direkt 2 Wochen später so auch bei den anderen. Also es scheint ja gar nicht so sehr das Problem zu sein, diese Features zu bauen, weil wenn sie dann benötigt werden, kommen sie irgendwie recht schnell, sondern es scheint eher noch so das Ding zu sein, dass sie halt alle grade irgendwie am Überlegen sind so, was wird da halt irgendwie wirklich gebraucht? Was setzt sich durch? Was ist irgendwie relevant? Ja, und gleichzeitig hängt's ja auch irgendwie damit zusammen und deswegen find ich diese Entkoppelung so spannend, weil, ne, was halt die Modelle können. Also ich mein, damit kommt halt halt halt 'n anderes Feature Set. So, wenn jetzt irgendwie Astra halt supergut auch in Computer Use ist, dann brauchst Du halt irgendwie das Interface dafür, das nutzen zu können oder Browseruser oder so. Ja, das hab ich irgendwie in der Vergangenheit superwenig benutzt jetzt die letzten Tage immer mal wieder, weil's irgendwie cool war, dass das einfach so funktioniert und so gut funktioniert. Aber ich fänd's ich fänd's natürlich cool, wenn es nicht immer, also mich nervt's schon, dass ich so 2 Apps benutzen muss oder grade Ja. Wirklich mache. Also wenn's eine gibt, wo ich mich dann auch irgendwie zu Recht finde und auskenne und die dann einfach alles kann. Weil weißt Du, Du könntest doch eine App bauen, die sagt, Du kannst Computer use, aber dann musst Du halt auch eine Ja. Subution gekriegt. Ja, klar. Das ist halt, das versteh ich. Und ich, mein großes Problem ist, dass ich wirklich weiß, wo ich was gemacht habe oder Ja, genau. Die alten Sachen dazu. Ja, genau. Das ist richtig. Aber deswegen eine Anlaufstelle, wenn Du selber Weltwäsche. Ja. Und dann wirst Du aber immer auch auch da vermutlich irgendwie 'n bisschen hinterherlaufen. Dann kannst Du halt neue Sachen machen und vielleicht auch was Neues, was die anderen dann nachbauen, aber Ja, weil immer einen Wenn Du, wie Du sagst, es 2 Wochen sind, will ich jetzt noch 'n bisschen schlimm. Ist ja cool. Bis heute. Ja. Ja. Okay. Alrighty. Wir haben noch Shopify auf der Liste und zwar ist Shopify gleich mit 2 Themen bei uns in dieser Woche aufgeschlagen. Das eine können wir in 30 Sekunden abfrühstücken. Shopify hat Tellwind übernommen. Wir hatten Tellwind vor ein paar Wochen, Monaten, glaub ich, schon mal bei uns in den News, weil sie viele ihrer Mitarbeiterinnen entlassen mussten. Das Problem hat sich dann damit erledigt, also die leben jetzt auf auf Shopify Kosten weiter. Ich muss ehrlicherweise sagen, ja cool, aber so dass Salewind so essenziell für Shopify ist, hätt ich jetzt auch nicht gedacht. Ich hab auch noch mal geschaut, wo sie's überall so benutzen. Ich glaub immer noch nicht, dass es so essenziell für sie ist, aber hey, Open Source Projekt, was durchfinanziert wird, kann man sich freuen. Cool, Thema abgehakt weiter. Aber glaubst Du das glaubst Du nicht, dass sie's ja haut sich machen, die Leute einzukaufen? Weil Ja, wahrscheinlich ist das auch wieder son Equiire Thema, ne. Da ist schon irgendwie viel Talent in der Bude, das willst Du irgendwie mitnehmen und so. Waren das damit? Viele Es waren ja 4 Leute. Ist doch egal. Aber wenn's in 4 Richtigen sind? Ja, also. Mhm. Ist ja so und das es ist stand ja auch nirgendwo, für wie viel sie's gekauft haben, ne. Wenn wenn das jetzt relativ kleine Beträge waren oder so und die haben son irgendwie Deal drin, dass die Leute nebenbei an Tablet weiterarbeiten können und dann für Shopify Who cares, so. Ja, läuft. Irgendwie, projekts durchfinanziert, passt. Der viel größere Punkt ist aber, dass Shopify sich von React Native verabschiedet hat. Und das, obwohl Shopify in den letzten 5, 6 Jahren Ja, perfekt. So 1 der allergrößten Champions von React Native eigentlich war, ja? Also alle ihre Apps mit React Native gebaut. Ich weiß noch damals in meinem Onboarding bei Shopify, wir mussten jeder auch sone eigene React Native App bauen und im Shopify Stack komplett React Native 'n Feature testweise mal so implementieren und so was. Das war schon, da haben sie superviel Wert drauf gelegt, dass sie so diese Technik haben, mit der Du halt irgendwie vom Backend zu Frontend in den Mobile Apps irgendwie halt alles so so tun kannst und das ist jetzt vorbei. So, weil Sie gesagt haben, die das grundlegende Kalkül hinter der Entscheidung zu Reagnactive hat sich verändert, weil natürlich der eine große Punkt, also das ist jetzt auch kein kein Shopify eigenes Ding, ne. Das hat ja jeder, ich mein, wir haben uns das ja damals bei Flatter auch ähnlich überlegt, ja, was ist was sind halt die Kosten, wenn Du 2 dedizierte Apps entwickeln musst in Swift und Cootlin versus eine geteilte Code Base, ja. Ja. Lohnt sich das? Also der Jobchef damals sagt so nein, das lohnt sich bei uns nicht, alles doppelte Aufwand, ja, ja, ja, ja, wir müssen verschiedenes Talent vorhalten und so weiter und so fort und wir bauen einfach alles nur noch einmal in type Skript und das kann irgendwie jeder verstehen und deshalb nehmen wir React Native. So, nachdem jetzt aber Code schreiben ja quasi umsonst geworden ist durch Coding Agents, haben wir gesagt, na ja, dieses Feature Doppelentwickeln, das ist ja gar nicht mehr so teuer, wie es vielleicht einmal war. Weil wir können das jetzt in Swift oder in Gotland bauen, dann geben wir das dem Agent hin und der kann das quasi in dem jener jeweils anderen dann nach implementieren sozusagen, sodass dieses Kostenargument halt weggefallen ist, aber trotzdem der Nachteil oder die Nachteil, die React Native mitbringt, ja immer noch existent sind, ne. Also auch das kein Shopify Uniqueest Ding und auch kein, das gibt's bei anderen Frameworks und Sprachen auch, ne. Du bist immer eine Abstraktionsstufe weiter weg von dem Betriebssystem, auf denen Du arbeitest. Du rennst deinen Frameworks und Librys son bisschen hinterher. Du bist auf mehr Third Party Dependencies angewiesen und so weiter und so fort. Müssen diese ganze Diskussion, glaub ich, nicht komplett aufmachen. Aber ich sag halt, die die Balance in dieser Abwägung hat sich halt verschoben. Und sie verabschieden sich jetzt von React Native, gehen wieder hin zu Android alternativen Android und iOS Apps. Und ja, sie waren in dem Blogpost, wir verlinken wir ja auch noch mal sehr ehrlich. Haben wir auch gesagt, ne, wir machen diese Migration nicht den Migrationswillen, sondern wir wollen uns schon sehr hart daran messen lassen, dass wir danach dann auch schneller werden, neue Features, neue Appversionen, mehrere Apps vielleicht gleichzeitig irgendwie alles rauszubringen, zu zu können und so weiter und so fort. Ja. Und vielleicht ein anderer, wo wir noch 'n bisschen weiter reinsteigen, ist, Sie haben in dem selben Blogpost auch gesagt so, hey, wir brauchen deshalb übrigens noch mehr Engineering Leute. Genau. Ne, also dieses dieses ganze Thema mit, na ja, AI schreibt irgendwie immer mehr Code und deshalb brauchen wir immer weniger Developer. Das also ich weiß nicht, ich bin da skeptisch, aber es scheint auch hier irgendwie nicht aufzugehen, sondern sagen halt, wir bauen hier gerade unser eigenes Tooling, halt diese Toolchain jetzt irgendwie aufbauen zu können. Dafür brauchen wir Leute, ne, sie brauchen jetzt vielleicht weniger nur Mobile Engineers, sondern auch Plattform Leute und Ops Leute und so was alles. Aber man braucht auf alle Fälle immerhin immer weiter auch Entwicklerin. Aber haben Sie gesagt, ob Sie auf Junior oder läuft's nennen? Stand da was? Das stand da nicht explizit. Es ging eher so die Fachbereiche, die Sie da dann suchen, weil Sie jetzt diese Toodule eben aufbauen wollen für. Ein anderer interessanter Aspekt war, dass Sie son bisschen darüber gesprochen haben, wie der Entscheidungsprozess war zwischen, na ja, wir haben ja schon diese riesen Codebase, ne. Shopify hat mehrere sehr große Apps, die auch bei den Emergenes, die Shopify Shops betreiben, ein sehr kritischer Teil der Infrastruktur sind und die natürlich zu replacen nicht trivial ist, so. Ja, und da war die Überlegung, okay, machen wir das in sonem Hauruck Verfahren und schreiben die einmal komplett neu, releasen die neu und und fertig? Oder machen wir das in sonem schleichenden Prozess, wo wir quasi die bestehende App nehmen und immer mehr Teile, die jetzt gerade React Native sind, ersetzen durch wirklich native Teile der App, bis halt die ganze App so einmal quasi ausgetauscht ist. Was glaubt ihr, wie haben sie sich entschieden? Hauruck. Gar nicht, was hast Du gesagt? Gar nicht. Gar nicht? Weiß nicht. Hau Hau Hauruck, natürlich. Sie sie machen ja die Dennis Becker Methode, ja? Ja, wo? Und haben gesagt, na ja, sie haben hier so son Prototyp gebaut und quasi diesen ganzen Workflow, den sie sich da so ausgedacht haben, einmal testen zu können. Und der war so vielversprechend, dass sie jetzt gesagt haben, na ja, der Management- und Infrastruktur Overhead, der mit soner teilweisen Migration kommt, ist ja auch nicht zu vernachlässigen, ja. Und der Prototyp ist eben so vielversprechend, dass sie gesagt haben, nee, wir machen hier Greenfield, die ganze App einmal neu. Sie haben natürlich den Vorteil, dass sie für die bestehenden Apps eine massive Testcovery Schalter auch haben, ja. Das ist supergut dokumentiert, das ist, UI ist supergut beschrieben. Also Sie bauen ja nicht quasi eine komplett neue App von 0 auf, sondern Sie können ja sehr gut die bestehende App als Referenzmodell dafür nutzen. Sie beschreiben den Blogpost, erkennen wir verlinken das hier noch mal, auch wie Sie quasi die Specs und die Checkpoints quasi aus der bestehenden App abgeleitet haben, gegen die Sie dann jetzt quasi so lange mit AI entwickeln, bis da quasi Feature Parity erreicht ist. Aber am Ende soll's halt doch darum gehen, so von jetzt auf gleich die eine App durch die andere zu ersetzen. Erst, ja, wir sprechen noch son bisschen darüber, wie sie das architektonisch son bisschen machen, wie ihr Workflow aussieht, diese diese Checkpoints eben zu erstellen, die die das das UI von der bestehenden App quasi abzuleiten, maschinenlesbar zu machen und dann quasi auf Native zu parsen. Sie sprechen auch son bisschen darüber, was Sie an Anstrengungen unternehmen, mehr Businesslogik von UI Logik zu trennen, weil das Problem ja immer noch ist, dass LLMs nicht gut und oder schnell darin sind, insbesondere Mobile Simulator zu bedienen, so. Und je mehr von der Logik quasi vom UI entkoppelt ist, desto mehr von der Logik wird quasi Headless ausführbar, testbar, evaluierbar so, ja, dass sich den Simulator für alles irgendwie anschmeißen müssen und dementsprechend der Feedback Loop deutlich schneller laufen kann. Ja. Kann man sich das mal durchlesen? Superinteressant sind so auf 2, 3 Blogposts alles verteilt, die verlinken sich aber gegenseitig, kann man mal reinschauen. Sie sprechen auch darüber, dass 1 der großen Konzerns going forward dann natürlich ist, die die Feature Parity halt sicherzustellen, ja? Das, was dir quasi bei React Native geschenkt wird, so, weil Du hast eine Code Base und die stellt sicher, dass sowohl deine Android als auch deine iOS App irgendwie gleich funktionieren, insofern Du sie dann zeitgleich releast. Wie machst Du das jetzt, wenn die Codebase halt wirklich wieder getrennt ist, so, ja? Auch 'n ganz spannender Teil davon. Ja, ist 'n insgesamt cooler Read, kann man sich mal kann man sich mal reinziehen Jetzt würd mich natürlich noch so euer Take interessieren so, diese ganzen, weil wir sind ja hier auch Slapper Freunde, diese ganze Diskussion so diese Unifying Framework so, braucht man das noch? Kann das weg? Ist das jetzt alles überflüssig? Was was glaubt ihr? Also, vielleicht sind ganz überflüssig. Ich sag mal, für simple Apps ist es wahrscheinlich immer noch sinnvoll, wegnet zu nutzen, weil Du auch trotzdem nur einen Code schreiben hast. Ganz, ganz kostenlos ist ja nett, So, man bezahlt ja schon auch für die Agents. Deswegen, ich sag mal, es gibt bestimmt noch Use Cases, die werden deutlich deutlich weniger werden. Kleine Randnotiz, ist unsere Programmiercon App nicht auch in React Native gebaut? Ja, aber Keine Rat und Clemens hab schon zu Dennis gesagt, ja, werfen wir weg und bauen uns neu. Genau. Weil Schau ich schau ich meinen Ansatz. Ja, genau. Ich würd ich will die nicht noch, ich will, also, ich will da nicht noch mal dran was machen, weil das war schon war schon nervig mit Flatnetive. Ja. Dennis, was hast Du? Flatter kann das weg? Können wir die ganzen Flatterleute hier bei uns, können wir die Also erst mal Reagnaive kann wahrscheinlich weg, wenn man Flatter hat. Und Flatter ist, glaub ich, immer noch für einige Use Cases cool, so. Also das Ding ist halt, weißt Du, Shopify ist halt groß genug und sie reden ja auch erst von 'ner Pipeline und so was, so. Du musst halt viel aufsetzen, Du musst diese ganzen Tests und Du musst, ne, Du musst ja irgendwas Automatisiertes haben, damit das nicht dieser Mehraufwand wird, so. Und ich sehe grundsätzlich den Case, dass AI supergut halt von 1 Plattform auf die andere das besetzen kann und von daher versteh ich das schon. Und trotzdem brauchst Du natürlich irgendwie Pipelines, die das Ganze testen können, die das automatisiert irgendwie machen, die das, ne, wirklich nicht diese Mehraufwände zu haben. Und Aber das ist vielleicht ja auch nur 'n Problem, weil sie die Ersten sind so jetzt, ne, die halt irgendwie sone Migration anstoßen. Ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass es da vielleicht in Zukunft auch viel Open Source Lösungen gibt im Sinne von Library Toolchains, sicherzustellen, dass so deine Code Bases irgendwie featurparitär sind? Ja, weiß ich nicht. Ehrlich gesagt, also wär 'n spannender Use Case für wer sollte so was noch Open Source machen, Wenn Du das irgendwie deinem eigenen Case einfach nur machst mit der AI und dann irgendwie 4 Rahmenbedingungen öfters. Und ja. Ja, was? Der Punkt hab ich vergessen, glaub ich. Ist 'n anderer Punkt, den ich eben angerufen habe, wo ich ja gesagt hab. Ist 'n schönes. Okay. Alright, dann ist das Flatter wohl doch noch nicht so tot wie gedacht. Ach ja, doch. Ah, doch. Ich hatte ja ich hatte das, ich wollte ja, Saft, wer und dann Flatter. Ich mein, was wo Du noch gar nicht drauf eingegangen bist, ist ja son bisschen die Fragestellung, also neben dem, das waren jetzt alles so technische Aspekte, sehen Sie auch, haben Sie irgendwas dafür, was die Qualität der App angeht, gesagt? Ja, also Sie haben diesen diesen Prototyp verglichen mit Ihrer Bestandsapp und halt darüber gesprochen, ne, wie sich die Binary Größe verbessert hat, wie sich die Start up Zeit verbessert hat, wie die Crashrate runtergegangen ist, weil halt einfach, ne, es sind weniger Layer irgendwie involviert. Das wird halt einfach architektonisch simpler so am Ende des Tages. Ja, also das wär ja doch, das würde ich auch sagen so, die App am Ende ist wahrscheinlich geiler, also das war immer schon so, sie ist geiler, wenn sie nativ ist. Und auch wenn sich diese GAP irgendwie immer weiter geschlossen hat, konnte sie's am Ende immer noch merken und spüren und und merken, während die App für die Plattform entwickelt wurde. Und von daher find ich es eher gut, diese Entscheidung da auf Qualität und eine geile App zu setzen. Und auch da muss man wahrscheinlich sagen, dass Shopify ja, also wenn es jemand gibt, der gute Apps bauen kann, so außerhalb von Facebook, dann ist es wahrscheinlich Shopify so, ja. Und wenn selbst bei denen quasi der Sprung zu Native noch mal so viel besser irgendwie ist, dann ist das ja für die meisten anderen da draußen, die sich nicht erlauben können, so viel Optimierung in React Native zu stecken, ist ja wahrscheinlich der Sprung eher noch größer als als jetzt hier in dem Fall. Komm, wir verabschieden uns von dem Flattervogel. Okay. Von dem auch? Ja. Ja. Weißt Du, wie heißt? Gut. Danke dafür. Das war's mit Flatter. Das war's mit Flatter. Das war's mit Flatter. Ah, das war's auch noch nicht mit der Programmierbar, weil Dennis war Wenn ihr bei der App habt die Ideen habt sprechen. Ja, wenn ihr Ideen habt, was wir jetzt in den Hintergrund stellen sollen, wenn ihr was Schönes habt, was auf unser Regal soll für die wenigen, die das hier per Video gucken und nicht neu überlegen Was habt ihr denn? Das das ein leuchtendes Regnative Logo. Nee, ist, wir haben doch diesen lustigen Programmierer bei Geiss, der nur bei uns intern immer auftaucht. Oh, den können wir mal 3D drucken und da hinstellen. Aber dann ableuchten. Sehr gut. Leuchten. Richard. Richard soll das mal so semitransparent drucken und dann stellen wir den dahin. Ja. Wir könnten auch mit Richards das dann eher sone Nerd Folge, mal sone 3 D Folge machen. Was ist immer eher sone Nerd Folge im Vergleich zu allen anderen Folgen bei uns, die so sehr wild Ja, weil's halt weil's halt nicht so viel mit Programmen zu tun hat, aber so 3 D Druck, der ist da grad voll drin und mit AI geht er wohl auch wieder Dann können wir auch Penny noch einladen, der baut grade sonen so Lego, also das mit mit Astra kann so komplette Lego Modelle und so Anleitungen und so was bauen. Richtig cool und zeigt jetzt alles in 3D an und sagt so, hey, baut 'n Fußballstadion und dann werden alle Teile zusammengesessen. Boah, und Du kannst einfach Lego Modelle selbst generieren so. Auch 'n wirklich gutes Ding. Ja. Yut. Ja, Apple, genau. Ein Thema, wo wir wieder wo ich mit Halbwissen tragen kann, aber das war noch ein kleines Tipp. Tipp. Tipp ist richtig, ne? Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tilly richtig. Tilly richtig. Tilly richtig. Tilly aus der Apple Keynote, wo man erst mal so als Consumer, mein erster Mal jetzt so gedacht, ja, aber dann zur zweiten denken, oh ja, ziemlich cool und zwar ist es in der Kamera vom neuen iPhone integriert, das durch Sicherheitsmechanismen auf Pixel eben, ne, kann da inkodiert oder in das Bild reingeschrieben werden, vorsehen, das ist eine Originalaufnahme. So und das wird gespeichert, also diese Situation, also ist praktisch son bisschen wie bei den AI Bildern, wo auch hingeschrieben wird mit diesem Synth ID und so, hey, das ist irgendwie serviert, dass das 'n AI Generiert des Bild ist, gibt es diese Originalaufnahme und die Originalaufnahme bleibt in auf deinem iOS Gerät praktisch parallel zu, wenn Du das dann weiter bearbeitest oder mit der ja irgendwas machst oder so was, bleibt das da und kann halt praktisch authentifizieren, dass das ein originales Bild ist, was gemacht wurde. Und ich finde halt in der heutigen Zeit, wo so wahnsinnig viel Fake Sachen unterwegs sind, ist es halt cool, technologisch einen Schritt weiterzugehen und halt sicher bestimmen zu können und sicher zu sagen können, das hier ist ein Originalbild, so sah die Szene aus, Du sah es aus, es wurde sicher nicht bearbeitet und sicher aufgenommen. Wie wie kann man das sich bestellen? Warum warum kann man das sich einfach nachsegnen, wenn er das verändert und das? So, und das ist jetzt sehr das Halbwissen. Also weil das irgendwie, das diese Sicherheitselemente sind irgendwie bis auf Ja, was heißt, bis auf fixe Ebene, aber es wird praktisch da reingebrannt in dieses in dieses Bild Ja. Und Du kannst halt nicht ausrechnen. Also ich mein, Du kannst Und Du kannst es auch, glaube ich Genau, Du kannst es auch nicht einfach Hattest Du das Gefühl, als Du's gelesen hast, okay, das funktioniert? Jano, wie hat dein Gefühl? Also ich muss sagen Ja. Da der Punkt ist ja, sie sie garantieren ja nur für das, was der Sensor so gesehen hat, ne. Du kannst natürlich jetzt einfach immer noch irgendwie 'n Screengrab abfotografieren damit oder so. Also es ist wie viele Sachen, die so in Security sind, halt auch nur 'n Teil von dieser Kette, der Du halt irgendwie glauben musst, aber es ist halt, wie viele Sachen in Security, besser als nix. So, ja? Es kann irgendwie ein Schritt davon sein. Es ist nicht die Lösung für alle diese Probleme, aber es ist, glaube ich, 'n wichtiger Baustein. Und es ist auch, es sind auch Daten, die man dann in Social Media anzeigen kann oder muss das auf deinem Handy sein? Nee, nee, es ist wohl embedded im File und Du kannst es später auch auswählen. Also so wie ja, wenn Du jetzt zum Beispiel 'n Synth ID AI Bild zu LinkedIn oder Instagram oder so hochlädst, die zeigen ja dann quasi darauf aufbauend jetzt auch schon Disclaimer an so, hey, das ist ein AI generiertes Bild, nur dass Du Bescheid weißt. Und so könnten sie quasi in Zukunft auch anzeigen, so, hey, dieses Bild ist quasi referenz Image, bla, verifiziert, dass das so so echt ist. Ich frag mich, ob das dass das so so echt ist. Er fragt mich, ob das dann, also, ja, muss ich mich mal einlesen, weil das find ich eigentlich ganz spannend. Ich mein, man könnte so was ja ähnlich wie Zertifikate in bei Webseiten machen, dass halt Apple, dass Du das bei Apple gegenchecken musst? Also ist das Das ist halt wieder son zentralisierterer Ansatz, ne? Ja, genau. Da bin ich auch für Infrastruktur und eine zentrale Authority, der Du irgendwie vertraust. Und das ist halt genau das, was sie quasi nicht machen wollten damit, aber das wär der der Gegenentwurf. Dennis, hast Du das gesehen, ob das nur bei den neuen iPhones Pro oder nur mit dem neuen iOS oder auch rückwirkend für andere Modelle oder wer wer hat das denn jetzt alles? Oder Der geht nur, genau, das geht nur für 9 18 pro iPhones, weil eben und das kommen wir zu deinen Zertifikaten, wenn dieser Chip, dieser Chip initialisiert wird oder dieser Kamerachip initialisiert wird, dann erstellt der einen Key Ja. Letztendlich. Und dann gibt es, der private Key bleibt halt dann irgendwie auf dem Gerät Ja. Und dann gibt es halt sone eine Certificate Authority, die irgendwie dahinter steht und dann kann später Apple das praktisch sagen, dass es zu einem Gerät gehört. Ja, das mein ich. Ich weiß nicht. Weil da muss nicht das Bild zu Apple selbst irgendwie bla, das ist halt nur die die Zertifizierungskette, ne, sone Ja, ja, das meinen sie aber. Also, dass Du, sag ich mal, eine 1 Autorität hast, Apple, die sagen kann, ja, ja, das ist von 'nem Gerät von uns, weil das ist ja das Einzige, was in meinen Augen auch wirklich nicht Also und geborene ist das dann da dem mit Vertrauen so. Genau. Okay. Und tatsächlich ist das auch noch auch noch über den Apple Push Notification Service, wo dann son Hardview Protokoll läuft und immer guckt, dass das alles noch aktuell ist. Also es ist schon ziemlich Okay. Ziemlich, würde ich sagen. Und ja. Und für Videos und Bilder beides. Wow. Ich glaub nur für Bilder gerade. Aber dann machst Du halt son Start Frame, machst ein Bild und nimmst dann 'n Video auf. Also wenn's Zeitung drum, Berichterstattung geht zum Beispiel. Ich mein, da kannst Du ja ein Foto machen und danach hat das Video. Da kannst Du halt auch nicht sagen, dass es die komplette Videolänge länger jetzt Ja. Diagnostiziert ist, aber es geht ja erst mal son bisschen auf die authentische Situation. Da ist wahrscheinlich George Schwierigkeit dabei, dir das zu erwähnen. Ja, ja. Also freuen wir uns alle auf neue iPhones gegen AI Deep Facts oder so was. Find ich's gut. Dann könnten wir vielleicht auch endlich mal 'n Social Media bestellen, was nur echte Medien erlaubt. Netzwerk meinst Du? Nur automatisiert echte Bilder ohne Überarbeit. Der will das schon. Der er hat. Ich hab noch eine ganz kurze eine ganz kurze Randnotiz, die mir heute Morgen hier über den Ticker gelaufen ist, wenn wir jetzt mit diesem iPhone Thema durch sind. Weil wir hatten das auch vor 'n paar Monaten schon mal besprochen, dass AWS ja 1 seiner Datacenters offline nehmen musste wegen dem Irankrieg, das in Bahrain irgendwie getroffen wurde. Und sie haben jetzt heute Nacht eine Pressemitteilung rausgegeben, dass so, sie schreiben dieses Ding halt komplett ab. So, alle Daten weg, alles gar nix, jeder Recoveryversuch war quasi nicht mehr zu gebrauchen und das ist, glaube ich, so wie ich das sehe, das 1. Mal in der Geschichte von AWS, dass das halt überhaupt passiert ist, dass so 'n Datacenter oder wenns halt nur ein Datacenter der Region gab, quasi eine ganze Region, verloren hast so, ja. Und das nur so als als kleiner Reminder, dass so Redundancy und Multiregion und so sollte man sich mal anschauen. Back up Strategien, Feuer mit Jan Gregor. Also, meine Back up Ja, rateon alles kein Backup, ne. Ja, rateon alles kein Backup, ist so. Aber fand ich krass so, dass also a, dass sie halt monatelang daran waren, das halt irgendwie wieder aufzubauen und da halt irgendwie versucht haben, Festplatten zu recoovern und mit verschiedensten Forensickern da irgendwie dran waren und bla, aber jetzt halt doch irgendwie, als sie eingestehen mussten, so, das das kriegen wir nicht mehr hin. Ja, es ist sicher öfter mal was Neues. Omasisch. Oh Gottes. So, ich krieg sogar den ganzen Sinn mal so ganz knapp an der Grenze. Weißt Du, ich hab als Micky News damals vorgelesen hab, da hab ich mich schon die Nesseln gesetzt mit so, wie man wie man darüber berichtet, aber das das war jetzt für 'n Vereins obendrauf. Ich habe nicht darüber nachgedacht. Es war kein kein bisschen gefasst. Ein Abschied. Es war noch nicht mal eine absichtliche Referenz. Es war einfach nur ein Wort, ein Das hab ich mir schon gedacht. Ja, das ist so Priming. Du wurdest weg gepimet. Ja. Aha. Okay, okay. Fantastisch. Du kommst noch mit durch von sympathisch bist. So, damit sind wir fertig für heute. Wir sehen uns alle gleich Heute Abend. Heute Abend. Morgen. Ja. Bad Nauheim. Bad Nauheim, place und ansonsten spätestens am fünfundzwanzigsten sechsundzwanzigsten hier zu Programm Econ. So. Da da hast 'n Monat gehabt vergessen. Ja. Ja. Na, 25 sechster November, genau. So ist das. So ist das. Sehr gut. Freuen wir auf euch. Dann Wir freuen uns auf euch. Auf der neuen Programmierkorn App mit richtig guten Intro Videos mit neuem Light und Sound, alles am Start. Danket an Youtube Streaming auch? Youtube Streaming natürlich erst, wenn wir ausgekocht sind, sonst kommen die Leute. Ja? Fair, so können wir das machen. Wunderbar. Wenn ausverkauft, dann Youtube Streaming. Gut. Ja, ja, machen wir. Danke euch für die Zeit. Danke da draußen fürs Zuhören. Ihr wisst, wo ihr uns erreichen könnt. Denkt dran, eine E-Mail an Garrett at Programmier Punkt Bar zu schreiben, wenn ihr nicht wisst, was eine Saal Wette ist. Und ansonsten hören wir uns hier nächste Woche wieder in den News. Bis denne. Tschau, tschau. Tschüs. Tschau, 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0: Hallo liebe Hörerinnen, heute ist Kalenderwoche 38, ja 20 22 und herzlich willkommen zu den Programmierball News. Ich bin endlich aus dem Urlaub wieder da. Der Jann ist wieder für euch am Start und mit mir im Studio sind\n\nSpeaker 1: Dennis Becker,\n\nSpeaker 2: Garil Smog.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunder, egal, das ist die 1. Podcastaufnahme, die wir seit Monaten zusammen machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, krass. Wo war ich eigentlich? Habt ihr das zu einem gesagt irgendwie so, als ich gegangen bin so?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich glaub, Dennis hat das gesagt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Er hat ist keinem aufgefallen. Mann. Hat keiner, er hat niemand geschrieben oder so, wo's grade\n\nSpeaker 1: Doch, wir sollten am Anfang konnten wir die E-Mail 5 nicht mehr beantworten, aber wir haben alle gesagt, Du kommst September.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist dann automatisch sone\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Gerne. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist mir wieder da. Fein So wie Jan, guck mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was war eine was eine spezielle Folge heute? So wie was? So wie Jan, ja. Also Jan war zwar nur 2 Wochen weg, von 3 hätte ich's so nicht so beeindruckend, aber Du warst\n\nSpeaker 2: hier Monate weg. Konnte nicht so viel, wie nennt man das?\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber also ich wette gerne und ich haben eine ähnliche Strecke zurückgelegt in der Zeit einfach.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wahrscheinlich, ja. Meinst Du, mit dem Auto meinst Du? Ja. Ich fliege dazu, kriegst Du das natürlich nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja,\n\nSpeaker 1: na, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir wollen neben Fahrstrecken heute sprechen über AI und AI Bremsen und dass dazu ausgerechnet Dennis spricht, hätte ich vor 2 Wochen auch nicht gedacht, aber hey, Zeiten ändern sich. Wir sprechen\n\nSpeaker 1: Keine Meinung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir sprechen über den Amp Coding Agent und wir sprechen über Shopify und Native oder Nicht Native Apps. Bevor wir damit anfangen, noch 'n paar Housekeeping Sachen. Dennis machst Du diesen AI News Explainern noch am Anfang von jeder Folge? Dann wär jetzt deine Force\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, wir können also falls ihr noch nicht mitbekommen habt, habt, dass wir jetzt nicht mehr explizite AI News machen, weil wir festgestellt haben, dass das natürlich in unseren Alltag mehr und mehr Einzug erhellte und vielleicht auch die AI News sich über die Jahre 'n bisschen entwickelt haben und nicht mehr nur Modell- und Parameter Updates gab. Von daher hier der Mix aus Dingen, die uns aus der Tech Welt begegnen und natürlich automatisch dadurch viele News, die aus dem Reihebrett gleichzeitig kommen, aber zusammen in 1 wöchentlich erscheinenden News Folge. Und was mit Philipp? Philipp ist immer wieder dabei, auch in diesem Format. Philipp, ob bist Du, letzte Woche war er da.\n\nEr ist heute nicht da, weil wir noch keinen gemeinsamen fixen neuen Termin in 1 Uhrzeit gefunden haben. Der allen passt. Das ist eine Aufgabe für Jan Träger im Getriebe, der diese Woche wieder am Start ist und das organisieren wird.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke.\n\nSpeaker 0: Speaking of, diese Woche wieder am Start. Diese Woche ist nämlich auch Meet-up. Wenn ihr die Folge hört, habt ihr quasi, wenn ihr sie am Tag des Erscheinens hört Seit 4 Jahren. Abends noch die Gelegenheit, ganz schnell nach was nach Hause zu kommen, zum Programmier Barbecue. Fabio und Krishna stehen am Grill und außerdem gibt's einen Talk, einen Preview Talk von unserer Programmierkorn über AI und Image Upscaling und wie wir das hier so machen.\n\nDas ist ganz interessant. Und wer dann Bock hat auf die Programmiercon, der darf, kann, soll, muss sich jetzt beeilen. Die letzten, ich glaub 20 Prozent der Tickets oder so was sind noch da und nur wer bis Ende September sein Ticket kauft, kriegt ja sein T-Shirt mit dazu. Also Hobby Hopp, Dennis will ja wieder seine Saal Wette gewinnen und Dessert mitbestellen beim Catering und das machen wir nur, wenn ausverkauft ist. Ja.\n\nDementsprechend Times Running.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das muss ich wieder anmachen. Das liest dann keiner.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich weiß, Salvette ist, glaub ich, aber auch son son Ding, das das kennen die Jüngeren, glaub ich, gar nicht da draußen, oder? Das war jetzt, war jetzt schlechtes Framing.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na, der begriff schon.\n\nSpeaker 1: Na, jetzt halt doch. Also wer wie wie wie jung musst Du sein, nicht Wetten, dass geguckt zu haben?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wenn Du da jetzt son son Gen-Z-Mensch bist, dann hast Du nie Wetten, dass gesehen, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Wann hört er das denn\n\nSpeaker 2: auf? 2009. Das mit Gottschalk? War das schon ziemlich lange her, oder? 2008 Euro.\n\nSpeaker 1: 2008, aber Du hast es ja heut jung geguckt, so mit 6 oder so. Also man man mit 6 drüber, dann durfte man ja durchaus schon mal wetten, dass gucken. Und wenn Du jetzt oder sag mal, einfach zu rechnen, 8, also dann war's Zweitausenderkinder, die sind jetzt 6 20, können sie noch grade geguckt haben, also unter 26 nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Also wenn ihr da draußen nicht wisst, was eine Seilwetter ist, dann lasst es uns wissen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ja, ist ja wirklich interessant. Oh denn, ach so, das kommt am Ende.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das kommt am Ende. Und das finden die Leute auch raus. Ich traue das unseren Hörerinnen schon zu, dass sie, wenn sie uns erreichen wollen, das auch ohne unseren Hinweis zu finden.\n\nSpeaker 2: Macht's gerne, schreibt mir eine Mail und sagt, ob ihr euch schon Einmal\n\nSpeaker 0: an Garrett at Programmier Punkt bar schreiben, Garrett, was Saal Wette?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist Garrett. Sollten\n\nSpeaker 1: wir einrichten. Ich dachte,\n\nSpeaker 0: Dennis hat die alle mal eingerichtet, nachdem ich auch einnahmen wollte und so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab den Dave alleine bekommen, weil wir darüber gesprochen haben, der Podcast vorher, das\n\nSpeaker 2: ist schon nur onimand. Also ich hab's eine, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah,\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob's gabelt app programmieren ist. Darf ich das? Oh, guck doch. Nee,\n\nSpeaker 0: nee, es ist früher bei mir war es ja, das Vornamen und so. Es gibt keine Nachnamen bei der Programmierwahl.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hashtag gerne per Du.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gut. Oh, gut. Dennis, erzähl uns was zu dieser AI Bremse und wer bremst da wen und warum und wieso?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das sind wir mal gespannt, ob da überhaupt was gebremst wird und wie das wie das passiert. Aber letztendlich, zumindest finde ich, ist es wieder sehr in der Öffentlichkeit gewesen, ja, und damit mein ich, ne, auch ein Tagesschau Thema und sonstige Sachen so, weil's dann große Diskussionen ausgelöst hat. Anstoß des Ganzen, könnte man sagen, war 1 1 1 Brief oder ein Statement von Amaday, dem dem CEO von Athropic, der gesagt hat, hey, pass mal auf, wir sollten uns zusammenschließen und die Entwicklung von KI verlangsamen, weil uns das vielleicht gerade ein bisschen aus den Händen läuft und die Gefahr besteht, dass die Menschheit darunter leidet, was auch son bisschen Genau, eine Definition. Und er wiederum war aber son bisschen, inspiriert ist, glaub ich, das falsche Wort, aber die war, die Dinge, die ihn son bisschen in der Vergangenheit da beschäftigt haben, sind auch die Themen, die wir hier schon besprochen haben in den News Folgen. Also dieser diese verschiedenen Angriffe, die's ja mittlerweile gab, wo sich irgendwie Asians zusammengeschlossen haben und geschafft haben, aus Testumgebungen auszubrechen, obwohl sie eigentlich ein relativ klar definiertes kleines Ziel hatten.\n\nHat auch schon dort auf jeden Fall dazu geführt, dass ja, dass dass sich da mehr Gedanken gemacht werden, okay, was sind da tatsächlich die realen Gefahren? Ein konkretes, eine konkrete Szenario, was er belannte dort in dem Schreiben. Es hat also gesagt, okay, wenn es so weiter geht, geht der davon aus, dass irgendwelche Schwärme von Agents in 6 bis 12 Monaten das Internet übernehmen können. So. Was natürlich schon recht gravierend ist, je nachdem, welche Intention dahintersteckt mit dem, was sie da tun.\n\nUnd ja, ich hab auch eine Auslöser hat man auch, glaub ich, schon kurz drüber gesprochen, auch 'n relativ bekannter Mitarbeiter von Athropic hatte auch Und war und war damit auch relativ viel in in in in Newsendungen und so was unterwegs.\n\nSpeaker 2: Man hätte nicht was, es Also man muss auch nicht jetzt in 2, 3 Wochen irgendwie sein. Okay. Also in in, glaub ich, kurzen, letzten Zeitraum.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau und 1 hat er gesagt so, hey, wir sollten uns zusammenschießen, denn am Ende bringt es nichts, wenn eine einzelne Firma irgendwie langsamer macht, werden die anderen genauso weiter tun. Und war so der Vorschlag, lass uns das erst mal in demokratischen Staaten tun, praktisch son bisschen die Kontrolle auch darüber hat, ob wir das zumindest machen und durchsetzen kann und danach im besten Fall natürlich auch in autoritären Staaten zu versuchen, das nachzuziehen und dort auch zu verlangsamen. Und Da\n\nSpeaker 3: hast Du\n\nSpeaker 0: eine doofe Zwischenfrage gestellt. Ja. Was meint er denn, wenn er sagt, verlangsamen? Heißt das einfach son Moratorium auf, wir machen keine neuen Models mehr oder wir sind dann restriktiver in den in den APIs oder in Harnesten von dem, was wir anbieten? Was will er denn da?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, gute Frage. Also er möchte am Ende irgendwie son Zeitfenster von ein bis 2 Jahren, die die er nutzen möchte für die Sicherheitsvorkehrungen. Also er geht einfach, er sagt so, wenn wir in der Forschung so ein bis 2 Jahre hätten, Sicherheitsregeln und uns darauf zu fokussieren, dass wir das Ganze sicherer machen, dann wär das schon 'n sehr großer Schritt. Aber ganz konkret so, also von wegen, wir schalten jetzt unsere Trainingsmaschinen ab, so konkret wird er da dann nicht. Das Ding ist auch, also das ist auch noch ein weiterer Faktor.\n\nEr sagt etwas, seit Sommer hat sich die Entwicklung noch mal so extrem beschleunigt der Modelle, denn also aus dem Grund, dass KI jetzt selbst KI Modelle trainiert, also dann diese selbstverschärknen Effekte, die da jetzt langsam zu tragen kommen. Und das ist halt der Part, der son bisschen aus aus dem Ruder läuft und wo man nicht mehr ganz weiß, nicht mehr hinterherkommt mit, wie groß sind denn eigentlich die Möglichkeiten und was sind denn die Sicherheitsmechanismen, die wir aktuell brauchen? Und genau. Interessanterweise gab's ja schon immer mal wieder son bisschen Vorstöße unter unterschiedlichen aus unterschiedlichen Richtungen. Fast ihm das mal ganz interessant war, dass sehr kurz später Sam Waltman von OpenAI gesagt hat, ja, findet er richtig.\n\nUnd sie würden da gerne mitmachen und würden sich dafür einsetzen, dass man da eine gemeinsame Regelung findet. Und selbst unser Freund Elon Musk hat danach auf Ex gepostet, hat gesagt, Dario hat recht. Also das heißt auch Dame Zustimmung gezeigt, ja, dass das was ist. Kurze kurze Zeitnot irgendwie superinteressant find ich, ne, dass jetzt sogar die 3 Großen der i-Labs irgendwie vor 'nem Jahr, der hat Google auf jeden Fall dabei gewesen. Das ist irgendwie krass, wenn so vom, ne, von der war damals war Google über den Modellen, ich weiß nicht, das war, Germany 3 oder 150 3 wahrscheinlich, ne, irgendwie so top dort und immer dabei.\n\nUnd wie schnell das passieren kann so vom vom Mininging, das ist jetzt nicht so, ne, Audi spielen nicht ganz vorne damit, das heißt, die der bohrt irgendwie die Meinung nicht, was, glaub ich, auch gefährlich ist, weil grundsätzlich werden sie wahrscheinlich aufschließen, ne, aber dass man das trotzdem nicht so im Fokus hat. Anyway, genau. Es gibt jetzt, glaube ich, noch nichts Konkretes, was da was da rausgibt praktisch rausgekommen ist, also es gibt jetzt noch keine Vereinbarung. Es gibt auch viele kritische Stimmen, die sagen, hey, auch wieder alles nur Marketing und letztendlich einfach nur son einmal boah, die Fähigkeiten sind so groß, deswegen müssen wir ja höher bewertet werden als eine der Motivationen, die dahintersteht. Und das andere, wir ziehen uns jetzt schon ein bisschen raus aus möglichen Haftungssachen, weil wir sagen, boah, das ist superschwer und wenn wir das jetzt nicht bremsen, haben wir's nicht hinter Kontrolle.\n\nUnd wenn 1 jetzt irgendwas kaputtgeht danach, dann kann man sagen, ja, wir haben's ja gesagt, wir wollten's eigentlich langsamer machen, aber es wurde sich nicht darauf geeinigt. Also das sind son bisschen die kritischen Stimmen, die das eher als sehen ähnlich. OpenAI hat daraufhin auch gesagt, sie verschieben ihren Börsenstart und wollen das auch nicht machen. Es hat halt auch son leichtes Geschmäcklich. Meine Zahlen sind jetzt grad sowieso nicht so rosig, dass man sagt, ah, hey, okay, es wär total sinnvoll, dieser Zeitpunkt, aber ist jetzt auch 'n bisschen darauf Das Gute ist Ja.\n\nDie USA haben natürlich 'n fantastischen Präsidenten, den wo viele Nationen sich freuen würden, wenn sie ihn hätten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oh, ich, was kommt jetzt, Alter? Was ist das? Ist die Spurgelt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich ich überleg grad, wo ich diesen Irony Disclaimer hier nachher einbauen muss, damit wir nicht von E-Mails überhäuft werden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und ich irgendwie hoffentlich schaff ich das jetzt so so schnell. Oh man. Ich wollt das zitieren. Ich hab's leider nicht offen. Der gepostet hat, hey, es ist alles gar kein Problem.\n\nMan braucht keine Bremse, wenn man einen so guten Präsidenten hat, in Klammern, mit Warum IQ? Hi Hi Hi I im Kino\n\nSpeaker 0: hat die doch gesagt.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, ja. Nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee,\n\nSpeaker 0: nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee\n\nSpeaker 1: und hatte ja schon gegrüßt, dass sie langsamer sein soll und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also sie kommt für\n\nSpeaker 1: die Zukunft. Das ist unfassbar. Also das es gibt so wenige, weißt Du, man man denkt sich ja manchmal, haben wir auch in Deutschland grade durchaus Probleme und so, sondern man fragt sich so, es es würde doch ein einzelnes Statement, was es so ist, also das liest, wie die man da argumentieren, also oh Wahnsinn. Wahnsinn, dass der mit so was durchkommt. Das ist\n\nSpeaker 3: mein Quatsch. Das ist mein Quatsch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist schon so. Ja. 2 Fragen hab ich's. Die eine weiß es noch, die andere muss ich jetzt gleich noch mal überlegen. Ja.\n\nWas sagt denn was sagt denn China so dazu? Also was sind jetzt hauptsächlich die amerikanischen Firmen, die da zustimmen? Wie sieht's, wie steht China?\n\nSpeaker 1: Die haben sich, soweit ich weiß, bis jetzt noch nicht dazu geäußert und zählen jetzt, glaub ich, auch nicht zu den demokratischen Staaten, wo man sagt, okay, die die ziehen dann direkt mit. Ich glaube, man würde halt versuchen zu sagen, muss ich auch irgendwie zu überzeugen, aber wie das ablaufen soll oder welche Handhabe man da hat, ist natürlich schwierig. Und klar, das ist ja natürlich auch, ne, dieser extremen Machtkampf, der jetzt im Moment da ist. Deswegen ist ist ja auch das Schwierige, Du kannst halt nicht als Einzeldes Lab sagen, ja, wir machen's jetzt langsamer, weil dann machen's halt andere. Sonst war das doch nämlich schon mal\n\nSpeaker 2: das Argument, dass irgendwie alle USA Firmen gemeint haben, wir können's nicht machen, weil dann, ja, macht halt China weiter und dann ist auch nichts gewonnen. Ja. So, deswegen würd mich mehr interessiert, ob's da tolle Ambitionen und auch Gespräche gibt, die das global irgendwie versuchen zu Ende. Aber wer soll das machen, ne?\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn das\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, Trump Trump nicht macht, genau, ich wollt es grad sagen. Wer halt sone Einstellung hat, eigentlich ist nicht. Ja. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ach so, okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also, ja. Am Ende das, was ich halt super oder nee, was spannend war. Nachdem wir ja, weiß ich nicht, irgendwie so die ersten Monate des Jahres schon immer der allgemeine, dass einige meine Gefühl so war, okay, die Modelle ne, flachen sind, also oder die Weiterentwicklung der Modelle flacht ein wenig ab, ist ja schon halt interessant zu sehen, was jetzt noch mal für Sprünge in kurzer Zeit möglich sind und was vor allen Dingen bei den internen Modellen so teilweise einfach abgeht. Wo man einfach ja auch schon wieder weiß und sieht, es wird noch einen richtig mächtigen, ne, nächste Schritte geben. Und nicht ein, ja, vielleicht wird das noch besser, sondern ja, auf jeden Fall wird es noch Faktor Faktor x besser.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich muss da immer an diesen einen Google Next Vortrag denken, wo der Mensch von Deep Mind auch so in 'nem Nebensatz sagt, na ja, könnten euch auch Modelle mit Kontext Windows von irgendwie 2, 3, 4000000 Tokens irgendwie anbieten. Es will aber nur grade keiner bezahlen und das könnte auch keiner wirklich nutzen, also machen wir's nicht. Was so vor 2 Jahren irgendwie schon so voll der Indikator war für, okay, was die alle noch so im Keller liegen haben, ohne wahrscheinlich jetzt noch viel Arbeit rein investieren zu müssen, wo sie einfach jahrelang noch draus schöpfen konnten, irgendwie immer besseres Zeug anzubieten. Will man wahrscheinlich gar nicht wissen. Yes.\n\nGarald, Du wolltest uns was über Amp und den Coding Agent erzählen und warum das besonders toll ist und warum das grade jetzt besonders interessant ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist grundsätzlich immer interessant. Ich glaub, ich mach den Disclaimer am Anfang und zwar Thorsten Beil, ein Mann, den ich, ist der, wie sagt man das, der schätze, ja, ich überleg, das ist zu krass, aber\n\nSpeaker 0: Also er war schon mal deinen Pick of the day hier, ne? Muss man Er\n\nSpeaker 2: war schon mal, genau, meinen Pick of the day mit seinem Newsletter, den find ich auch immer noch gut. Und der Liebe kommt übrigens auch zu Programmiercon und wir machen so eine Art, ich weiß nicht, ob ihr das schon definiert, wie das Format ist, sone Art Live Podcast oder so was?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich hab das mal so, im in der Agenda steht das so als Fireside Chat, so. Es ist keine Ja. Keine Session mit Vortrag, so. Wir quatschen mal über State of AI.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay. Mal gucken, was draus wird. Ich freu mich auf jeden Fall drauf. Was wird. Und Thorsten Ball ist Co Founder von Amp.\n\nWas ist Amp? Kennt, kennt ihr das? Ja. Brauste, ja. Dennis, komm.\n\nErklärst Du mal. Ja, da alle daraus, gleich noch besser. Amp ist ein Coding Agent, vergleichbar würde ich sagen, mit Cloud Code oder Codex hauptsächlich in der CLI. Und es ist eben so, dass sie aber anders als natürlich Cloud keinen eigenen, keine eigene AI anbieten. Das heißt, man nutzt dann Cloud oder ChatGPT als AI hinter diesem Agent, aber man ist auch nicht gebunden an einen AI.\n\nUnd ich sag mal, was die News jetzt ist, also was sich grad geändert hat, ist, dass sie noch mal zum, ich glaub, dritten oder vierten Mal jetzt das Bezahlmodell geändert haben. Da wurde viel ausprobiert, was ich grundsätzlich erst mal gut finde. Also ich glaub, sie versuchen den besten Fit für die Nutzer zu finden. Und es ging los damit, dass man einfach das bezahlt hat, was die Tokens in der API gekostet haben. Das war aber irgendwie nicht so ganz praktikabel, weil die API Kosten ja meistens deutlich teurer sind als das, was man bekommt, wenn man eine Subscription hat.\n\nDann haben Sie, was ich auch interessant finde, eine Zeit lang versucht, über Werbung das zu finanzieren, dass es eben kostenlos war und man Werbung im Terminal gesehen hat. Das konnte sich aber auch nicht wirklich rechnen mit denen, was die was die Tokens gekostet haben, haben sie wieder ausgebaut. Und was sie jetzt sagen, ist, okay, wir bezahlen, wir machen das gar nicht mehr über die API Tokens, sondern ihr bringt eure Subscription nicht. Das heißt, man bezahlt jetzt nichts mehr für Amp an sich. Es gibt, Entschuldigung, ich hab 1 vergessen, vor den nach den Ads gab's auch noch eine Subscription, die man bezahlt hat, also 20 20 Dollar, glaub ich, war das im Monat.\n\nUnd dann hat man's auch über die Tokens gemacht. Und jetzt sagen sie eben, okay, das lassen wir einfach weg. App gibt und ihr bringt einfach eure Tokens mit oder eure Subscriptions und könnt die darin nutzen. Und gleichzeitig, was Sie auch noch mitgebracht haben, was eher sonem Nebensatz kommt, was ich aber trotzdem sehr wichtig finde, ist, dass Sie auch versprechen, dass Sie die Daten nicht mehr oder sehr minimal verwenden, die man da reingibt. Das war vorher nur in den Enterprise, in der Enterprise Paket, das ist jetzt auch für jeden mit drin.\n\nDas heißt, ich würde sagen, dadurch wird Amp generell einfach attraktiver für fast jeder Mann und jeder Frau. Ist das nun das richtig? Ja. Alle, weil ich denke, mittlerweile hat fast jeder von uns eine Subscription und Amp ist dadurch viel, viel zugänglicher. Und was man aber noch bezahlt bei Amp, ist sogenannte Orbs, weil das ist praktisch der Promis von Amp und warum Amp auch spannend ist gegenüber zum Beispiel Open Code oder Pi, was ja auch sind, die aber alle nur lokal laufen.\n\nUnd was der Promis von, den ich's auch sehr cool finde, ist, es gibt keinen Vendorlog in, weil wir eben nicht auf irgend eine angewiesen sind, aber man hat trotzdem alle Benefits, die man bei zum Beispiel Clayw Code hat, dass man Remote Sessions hat, dass man von überall aus immer auf die Sessions zugreifen kann, dass man auf dem Rechner, auf dem Handy, von überall auf die gleiche Session zugreifen kann. Und die ganze Flexibilität, die wir mittlerweile haben, wenn wir mit Codex oder Cloud Code arbeiten, bietet Amp auch. Teilweise sogar noch mehr. Zum Beispiel gibt's sogenannte, ich glaub, Siddenz Multiplayer Session, nicht mehr unsicher grade, wo man eben auch zu zweit mit Kollegen, also zu dritt, in 1 Session arbeiten kann. Und das find ich erst mal 'n coolen Promis.\n\nAlso Sie wollen die gleiche Funktionalität bieten, wie es die Frontier Kolleg Agents auch machen, nur eben ohne, dass man angewiesen ist auf ein 1, was ist sowieso generell immer für sinnvoll heißt, ja, man sieht nicht auf eine. Das ist jetzt so wie, Du sagst, eine Gemenay war Topmodel und jetzt ist irgendwie nicht mehr relevant. Ja, viel gesagt, ich hab irgendwann 'n Faden verloren. Ich glaub, es wird einfach cooler dadurch, dass es for free ist, dass man's flexibel benutzen kann. Ich find's cool, dass sie viele Versuche machen, das richtige Modell für ihr Produkt zu finden.\n\nIch hab das Gefühl, das könnte was sein, was längerfristig\n\nSpeaker 1: stehen bleibt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ich fand's auch cool, dass Du diese diese auch selber betreiben kannst. Also wenn Du sie nicht da kaufen willst, sondern auf deiner eigenen Infrastruktur dieses ganze Zeug laufen lassen willst, fand ich Gut. Ganz nett.\n\nSpeaker 2: Gut, dass Du's sagst, genau, man kann's auch lokal laufen lassen, dann verlierst Du aber manche eine Funktion. Also Multiplayer Sessions zum Beispiel gehen dann nicht mehr und noch ein, 2 andere Dinge. Das muss man mitbedenken, genau. Aber sonst geht's auch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Die Johannes ist aber grundsätzlich dann identisch unabhängig davon, welches Modell Du nutzt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Was sie sogar haben, das find ich ganz cool, sie sagen, ich weiß nicht, wie das dann am Ende funktioniert, wenn Du nur ein 1 Subscription mitbringst, aber sie sagen oder was sie auch vorher gemacht hat, heißt, Du bachst gar kein Model aus, sondern sie wählen ja immer das beste Model für dich aus, je nachdem, was Du was Du haben möchtest. Das fand ich auch sehr spannend.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich frag mich nur, weil oft hört man ja auch, dass halt so die Kombination aus Model Ja. Irgendwie, dass es die so erfolgreich dann ist. Ja, und deswegen ist vielleicht gar nicht so einfach, es eine universelle zu schreiben, ja, damit unterschiedliche Modellen funktioniert, weil dann halt auf die ein Eigenheiten der Modelle nicht so stark eingegangen werden kann. Aber vielleicht passen ja trotzdem auch im Hintergrund irgendwie noch Promptern oder so, je nachdem, in welches in welches Ding Du läufst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich weiß, am Ende war es nicht so genau, aber dadurch, dass sie die Model ja auswählen für dich, würde man hoffen, dass sie dann auch das beste Model, was zu in Paris passiert ist, auswählen. Jo, was halt verfügbar ist, wenn Du jetzt nur noch Das ist vielleicht doch 'n bisschen der Nachteil, ne, weil oft hat man ja auch eine Sub gibt's schon. Und vorher hattest Du eben sozusagen die Berufe auf alle Models.\n\nSpeaker 3: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Was sehen? Ich muss es mal testen. Ich stell mir nie, ich hab's noch nie benutzt. Ich werd's mal testen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich muss sagen, ich war ewig lang auf der bei denen, weil sie ja son bisschen wegen Überfüllung geschlossen waren eine Zeit lang, als sie so sehr am Kommen waren. Und jetzt, wo sie diesen Fried hier haben, versuche ich's vielleicht noch mal. Weil ich find's im Prinzip auch ganz cool so, ne. Also vielleicht kommen wir jetzt endlich in diese Phase, wo so Harneße ähnlich wie so IDIs halt son bisschen freier auswählbar sind, ja, und Du nicht nur an die ein oder 2 großen irgendwie halt gebunden bist, so. Schau,\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist auf jeden Fall der richtige Bett, ne, weil so was wie Open Code, ich weiß nicht, ob die sowas mittlerweile auch anbieten, aber so Remo Sessions und so, das ist schon, weiß jetzt Zellen mittlerweile bei mir, also. Ja, ich weiß auch gar nicht, gibt es, Cloudcode ist ja auch mittlerweile als eine richtig coole UI verfügbar, wo der Browser und alles Mögliche drin ist. Ja. Gibt es das auch schon so Open Source mäßig? Also nichts an einen eine AI Zukunft?\n\nNix.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nee, ich\n\nSpeaker 1: überleg grad, welche Funktionalitäten. Also grundsätzlich, so Interface und unterschiedliche Optionen und so was, ja, und auch Browser, User, mein ich. So Sachen. Und andererseits, ja, irgendwie entwickelt sich das trotzdem gefühlt immer so auch, also auch die großen beiden immer weiter, ne. Und irgendwie ganz cool, dass er daade Features ist, was wir da her.\n\nIst wahrscheinlich gar nicht so einfach, da immer hinterher zu sein oder dann das Neue zu finden, was man das spannender ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber trotzdem ist es ja schon so, dass wir grade bei Codecs und Cloud Code irgendwie immer sehen, dass sie einander hinterherrennen, ne? Also irgendjemand hatte so den Toilettenmodus zuerst, wie der bei uns immer hieß und dann kam es halt direkt 2 Wochen später so auch bei den anderen. Also es scheint ja gar nicht so sehr das Problem zu sein, diese Features zu bauen, weil wenn sie dann benötigt werden, kommen sie irgendwie recht schnell, sondern es scheint eher noch so das Ding zu sein, dass sie halt alle grade irgendwie am Überlegen sind so, was wird da halt irgendwie wirklich gebraucht? Was setzt sich durch? Was ist irgendwie relevant?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, und gleichzeitig hängt's ja auch irgendwie damit zusammen und deswegen find ich diese Entkoppelung so spannend, weil, ne, was halt die Modelle können. Also ich mein, damit kommt halt halt halt 'n anderes Feature Set. So, wenn jetzt irgendwie Astra halt supergut auch in Computer Use ist, dann brauchst Du halt irgendwie das Interface dafür, das nutzen zu können oder Browseruser oder so. Ja, das hab ich irgendwie in der Vergangenheit superwenig benutzt jetzt die letzten Tage immer mal wieder, weil's irgendwie cool war, dass das einfach so funktioniert und so gut funktioniert.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich fänd's ich fänd's natürlich cool, wenn es nicht immer, also mich nervt's schon, dass ich so 2 Apps benutzen muss oder grade Ja. Wirklich mache. Also wenn's eine gibt, wo ich mich dann auch irgendwie zu Recht finde und auskenne und die dann einfach alles kann. Weil weißt Du, Du könntest doch eine App bauen, die sagt, Du kannst Computer use, aber dann musst Du halt auch eine Ja. Subution gekriegt.\n\nJa, klar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist halt, das versteh ich. Und ich, mein großes Problem ist, dass ich wirklich weiß, wo ich was gemacht habe oder Ja, genau. Die alten Sachen dazu.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Das ist richtig. Aber deswegen eine Anlaufstelle, wenn Du selber Weltwäsche.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Und dann wirst Du aber immer auch auch da vermutlich irgendwie 'n bisschen hinterherlaufen. Dann kannst Du halt neue Sachen machen und vielleicht auch was Neues, was die anderen dann nachbauen, aber Ja, weil immer einen\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn Du, wie Du sagst, es 2 Wochen sind, will ich jetzt noch 'n bisschen schlimm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist ja cool. Bis heute. Ja. Ja. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Alrighty. Wir haben noch Shopify auf der Liste und zwar ist Shopify gleich mit 2 Themen bei uns in dieser Woche aufgeschlagen. Das eine können wir in 30 Sekunden abfrühstücken. Shopify hat Tellwind übernommen. Wir hatten Tellwind vor ein paar Wochen, Monaten, glaub ich, schon mal bei uns in den News, weil sie viele ihrer Mitarbeiterinnen entlassen mussten.\n\nDas Problem hat sich dann damit erledigt, also die leben jetzt auf auf Shopify Kosten weiter. Ich muss ehrlicherweise sagen, ja cool, aber so dass Salewind so essenziell für Shopify ist, hätt ich jetzt auch nicht gedacht. Ich hab auch noch mal geschaut, wo sie's überall so benutzen. Ich glaub immer noch nicht, dass es so essenziell für sie ist, aber hey, Open Source Projekt, was durchfinanziert wird, kann man sich freuen. Cool, Thema abgehakt weiter.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber glaubst Du das glaubst Du nicht, dass sie's ja haut sich machen, die Leute einzukaufen? Weil\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wahrscheinlich ist das auch wieder son Equiire Thema, ne. Da ist schon irgendwie viel Talent in der Bude, das willst Du irgendwie mitnehmen und so. Waren das damit?\n\nSpeaker 1: Viele Es waren ja 4 Leute. Ist doch egal. Aber\n\nSpeaker 0: wenn's in 4 Richtigen sind? Ja, also.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Ist ja\n\nSpeaker 0: so und das es ist stand ja auch nirgendwo, für wie viel sie's gekauft haben, ne. Wenn wenn das jetzt relativ kleine Beträge waren oder so und die haben son irgendwie Deal drin, dass die Leute nebenbei an Tablet weiterarbeiten können und dann für Shopify Who cares, so. Ja, läuft. Irgendwie, projekts durchfinanziert, passt. Der viel größere Punkt ist aber, dass Shopify sich von React Native verabschiedet hat.\n\nUnd das, obwohl Shopify in den letzten 5, 6 Jahren\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, perfekt.\n\nSpeaker 0: So 1 der allergrößten Champions von React Native eigentlich war, ja? Also alle ihre Apps mit React Native gebaut. Ich weiß noch damals in meinem Onboarding bei Shopify, wir mussten jeder auch sone eigene React Native App bauen und im Shopify Stack komplett React Native 'n Feature testweise mal so implementieren und so was. Das war schon, da haben sie superviel Wert drauf gelegt, dass sie so diese Technik haben, mit der Du halt irgendwie vom Backend zu Frontend in den Mobile Apps irgendwie halt alles so so tun kannst und das ist jetzt vorbei. So, weil Sie gesagt haben, die das grundlegende Kalkül hinter der Entscheidung zu Reagnactive hat sich verändert, weil natürlich der eine große Punkt, also das ist jetzt auch kein kein Shopify eigenes Ding, ne.\n\nDas hat ja jeder, ich mein, wir haben uns das ja damals bei Flatter auch ähnlich überlegt, ja, was ist was sind halt die Kosten, wenn Du 2 dedizierte Apps entwickeln musst in Swift und Cootlin versus eine geteilte Code Base, ja. Ja. Lohnt sich das? Also der Jobchef damals sagt so nein, das lohnt sich bei uns nicht, alles doppelte Aufwand, ja, ja, ja, ja, wir müssen verschiedenes Talent vorhalten und so weiter und so fort und wir bauen einfach alles nur noch einmal in type Skript und das kann irgendwie jeder verstehen und deshalb nehmen wir React Native. So, nachdem jetzt aber Code schreiben ja quasi umsonst geworden ist durch Coding Agents, haben wir gesagt, na ja, dieses Feature Doppelentwickeln, das ist ja gar nicht mehr so teuer, wie es vielleicht einmal war.\n\nWeil wir können das jetzt in Swift oder in Gotland bauen, dann geben wir das dem Agent hin und der kann das quasi in dem jener jeweils anderen dann nach implementieren sozusagen, sodass dieses Kostenargument halt weggefallen ist, aber trotzdem der Nachteil oder die Nachteil, die React Native mitbringt, ja immer noch existent sind, ne. Also auch das kein Shopify Uniqueest Ding und auch kein, das gibt's bei anderen Frameworks und Sprachen auch, ne. Du bist immer eine Abstraktionsstufe weiter weg von dem Betriebssystem, auf denen Du arbeitest. Du rennst deinen Frameworks und Librys son bisschen hinterher. Du bist auf mehr Third Party Dependencies angewiesen und so weiter und so fort.\n\nMüssen diese ganze Diskussion, glaub ich, nicht komplett aufmachen. Aber ich sag halt, die die Balance in dieser Abwägung hat sich halt verschoben. Und sie verabschieden sich jetzt von React Native, gehen wieder hin zu Android alternativen Android und iOS Apps. Und ja, sie waren in dem Blogpost, wir verlinken wir ja auch noch mal sehr ehrlich. Haben wir auch gesagt, ne, wir machen diese Migration nicht den Migrationswillen, sondern wir wollen uns schon sehr hart daran messen lassen, dass wir danach dann auch schneller werden, neue Features, neue Appversionen, mehrere Apps vielleicht gleichzeitig irgendwie alles rauszubringen, zu zu können und so weiter und so fort.\n\nJa. Und vielleicht ein anderer, wo wir noch 'n bisschen weiter reinsteigen, ist, Sie haben in dem selben Blogpost auch gesagt so, hey, wir brauchen deshalb übrigens noch mehr Engineering Leute. Genau. Ne, also dieses dieses ganze Thema mit, na ja, AI schreibt irgendwie immer mehr Code und deshalb brauchen wir immer weniger Developer. Das also ich weiß nicht, ich bin da skeptisch, aber es scheint auch hier irgendwie nicht aufzugehen, sondern sagen halt, wir bauen hier gerade unser eigenes Tooling, halt diese Toolchain jetzt irgendwie aufbauen zu können.\n\nDafür brauchen wir Leute, ne, sie brauchen jetzt vielleicht weniger nur Mobile Engineers, sondern auch Plattform Leute und Ops Leute und so was alles. Aber man braucht auf alle Fälle immerhin immer weiter auch Entwicklerin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber haben Sie gesagt, ob Sie auf Junior oder läuft's nennen? Stand da was?\n\nSpeaker 0: Das stand da nicht explizit. Es ging eher so die Fachbereiche, die Sie da dann suchen, weil Sie jetzt diese Toodule eben aufbauen wollen für. Ein anderer interessanter Aspekt war, dass Sie son bisschen darüber gesprochen haben, wie der Entscheidungsprozess war zwischen, na ja, wir haben ja schon diese riesen Codebase, ne. Shopify hat mehrere sehr große Apps, die auch bei den Emergenes, die Shopify Shops betreiben, ein sehr kritischer Teil der Infrastruktur sind und die natürlich zu replacen nicht trivial ist, so. Ja, und da war die Überlegung, okay, machen wir das in sonem Hauruck Verfahren und schreiben die einmal komplett neu, releasen die neu und und fertig?\n\nOder machen wir das in sonem schleichenden Prozess, wo wir quasi die bestehende App nehmen und immer mehr Teile, die jetzt gerade React Native sind, ersetzen durch wirklich native Teile der App, bis halt die ganze App so einmal quasi ausgetauscht ist. Was glaubt ihr, wie haben sie sich entschieden?\n\nSpeaker 3: Hauruck.\n\nSpeaker 2: Gar nicht, was hast Du gesagt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Gar nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Gar nicht? Weiß nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hau Hau Hauruck, natürlich. Sie sie machen ja die Dennis Becker Methode, ja?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wo?\n\nSpeaker 0: Und haben gesagt, na ja, sie haben hier so son Prototyp gebaut und quasi diesen ganzen Workflow, den sie sich da so ausgedacht haben, einmal testen zu können. Und der war so vielversprechend, dass sie jetzt gesagt haben, na ja, der Management- und Infrastruktur Overhead, der mit soner teilweisen Migration kommt, ist ja auch nicht zu vernachlässigen, ja. Und der Prototyp ist eben so vielversprechend, dass sie gesagt haben, nee, wir machen hier Greenfield, die ganze App einmal neu. Sie haben natürlich den Vorteil, dass sie für die bestehenden Apps eine massive Testcovery Schalter auch haben, ja. Das ist supergut dokumentiert, das ist, UI ist supergut beschrieben.\n\nAlso Sie bauen ja nicht quasi eine komplett neue App von 0 auf, sondern Sie können ja sehr gut die bestehende App als Referenzmodell dafür nutzen. Sie beschreiben den Blogpost, erkennen wir verlinken das hier noch mal, auch wie Sie quasi die Specs und die Checkpoints quasi aus der bestehenden App abgeleitet haben, gegen die Sie dann jetzt quasi so lange mit AI entwickeln, bis da quasi Feature Parity erreicht ist. Aber am Ende soll's halt doch darum gehen, so von jetzt auf gleich die eine App durch die andere zu ersetzen. Erst, ja, wir sprechen noch son bisschen darüber, wie sie das architektonisch son bisschen machen, wie ihr Workflow aussieht, diese diese Checkpoints eben zu erstellen, die die das das UI von der bestehenden App quasi abzuleiten, maschinenlesbar zu machen und dann quasi auf Native zu parsen. Sie sprechen auch son bisschen darüber, was Sie an Anstrengungen unternehmen, mehr Businesslogik von UI Logik zu trennen, weil das Problem ja immer noch ist, dass LLMs nicht gut und oder schnell darin sind, insbesondere Mobile Simulator zu bedienen, so.\n\nUnd je mehr von der Logik quasi vom UI entkoppelt ist, desto mehr von der Logik wird quasi Headless ausführbar, testbar, evaluierbar so, ja, dass sich den Simulator für alles irgendwie anschmeißen müssen und dementsprechend der Feedback Loop deutlich schneller laufen kann. Ja. Kann man sich das mal durchlesen? Superinteressant sind so auf 2, 3 Blogposts alles verteilt, die verlinken sich aber gegenseitig, kann man mal reinschauen. Sie sprechen auch darüber, dass 1 der großen Konzerns going forward dann natürlich ist, die die Feature Parity halt sicherzustellen, ja?\n\nDas, was dir quasi bei React Native geschenkt wird, so, weil Du hast eine Code Base und die stellt sicher, dass sowohl deine Android als auch deine iOS App irgendwie gleich funktionieren, insofern Du sie dann zeitgleich releast. Wie machst Du das jetzt, wenn die Codebase halt wirklich wieder getrennt ist, so, ja? Auch 'n ganz spannender Teil davon. Ja, ist 'n insgesamt cooler Read, kann man sich mal kann man sich mal reinziehen Jetzt würd mich natürlich noch so euer Take interessieren so, diese ganzen, weil wir sind ja hier auch Slapper Freunde, diese ganze Diskussion so diese Unifying Framework so, braucht man das noch? Kann das weg?\n\nIst das jetzt alles überflüssig? Was was glaubt ihr?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also, vielleicht sind ganz überflüssig. Ich sag mal, für simple Apps ist es wahrscheinlich immer noch sinnvoll, wegnet zu nutzen, weil Du auch trotzdem nur einen Code schreiben hast. Ganz, ganz kostenlos ist ja nett, So, man bezahlt ja schon auch für die Agents. Deswegen, ich sag mal, es gibt bestimmt noch Use Cases, die werden deutlich deutlich weniger werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kleine Randnotiz, ist unsere Programmiercon App nicht auch in React Native gebaut?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber Keine Rat und Clemens hab schon zu Dennis gesagt, ja, werfen wir weg und bauen uns neu. Genau. Weil Schau ich schau ich meinen Ansatz. Ja, genau. Ich würd ich will die nicht noch, ich will, also, ich will da nicht noch mal dran was machen, weil das war schon war schon nervig mit Flatnetive.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Dennis, was hast Du? Flatter kann das weg? Können wir die ganzen Flatterleute hier bei uns, können wir die Also\n\nSpeaker 1: erst mal Reagnaive kann wahrscheinlich weg, wenn man Flatter hat. Und Flatter ist, glaub ich, immer noch für einige Use Cases cool, so. Also das Ding ist halt, weißt Du, Shopify ist halt groß genug und sie reden ja auch erst von 'ner Pipeline und so was, so. Du musst halt viel aufsetzen, Du musst diese ganzen Tests und Du musst, ne, Du musst ja irgendwas Automatisiertes haben, damit das nicht dieser Mehraufwand wird, so. Und ich sehe grundsätzlich den Case, dass AI supergut halt von 1 Plattform auf die andere das besetzen kann und von daher versteh ich das schon.\n\nUnd trotzdem brauchst Du natürlich irgendwie Pipelines, die das Ganze testen können, die das automatisiert irgendwie machen, die das, ne, wirklich nicht diese Mehraufwände zu haben. Und Aber das\n\nSpeaker 0: ist vielleicht ja auch nur 'n Problem, weil sie die Ersten sind so jetzt, ne, die halt irgendwie sone Migration anstoßen. Ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass es da vielleicht in Zukunft auch viel Open Source Lösungen gibt im Sinne von Library Toolchains, sicherzustellen, dass so deine Code Bases irgendwie featurparitär sind?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, weiß ich nicht. Ehrlich gesagt, also wär 'n spannender Use Case für wer sollte so was noch Open Source machen, Wenn Du das irgendwie deinem eigenen Case einfach nur machst mit der AI und dann irgendwie 4 Rahmenbedingungen öfters. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, was?\n\nSpeaker 1: Der Punkt hab ich vergessen, glaub ich. Ist 'n anderer Punkt, den ich eben angerufen habe, wo ich ja gesagt hab. Ist 'n schönes.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Alright, dann ist das Flatter wohl doch noch nicht so tot wie gedacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach ja, doch. Ah, doch. Ich hatte ja ich hatte das, ich wollte ja, Saft, wer und dann Flatter. Ich mein, was wo Du noch gar nicht drauf eingegangen bist, ist ja son bisschen die Fragestellung, also neben dem, das waren jetzt alles so technische Aspekte, sehen Sie auch, haben Sie irgendwas dafür, was die Qualität der App angeht, gesagt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also Sie haben diesen diesen Prototyp verglichen mit Ihrer Bestandsapp und halt darüber gesprochen, ne, wie sich die Binary Größe verbessert hat, wie sich die Start up Zeit verbessert hat, wie die Crashrate runtergegangen ist, weil halt einfach, ne, es sind weniger Layer irgendwie involviert. Das wird halt einfach architektonisch simpler so am Ende des Tages.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also das wär ja doch, das würde ich auch sagen so, die App am Ende ist wahrscheinlich geiler, also das war immer schon so, sie ist geiler, wenn sie nativ ist. Und auch wenn sich diese GAP irgendwie immer weiter geschlossen hat, konnte sie's am Ende immer noch merken und spüren und und merken, während die App für die Plattform entwickelt wurde. Und von daher find ich es eher gut, diese Entscheidung da auf Qualität und eine geile App zu setzen. Und auch da muss\n\nSpeaker 0: man wahrscheinlich sagen, dass Shopify ja, also wenn es jemand gibt, der gute Apps bauen kann, so außerhalb von Facebook, dann ist es wahrscheinlich Shopify so, ja. Und wenn selbst bei denen quasi der Sprung zu Native noch mal so viel besser irgendwie ist, dann ist das ja für die meisten anderen da draußen, die sich nicht erlauben können, so viel Optimierung in React Native zu stecken, ist ja wahrscheinlich der Sprung eher noch größer als als jetzt hier in dem Fall.\n\nSpeaker 2: Komm, wir verabschieden uns von dem Flattervogel.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Von dem auch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Weißt Du,\n\nSpeaker 0: wie heißt?\n\nSpeaker 3: Gut.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke dafür. Das war's mit Flatter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war's mit Flatter. Das war's mit Flatter. Ah, das war's auch noch nicht mit der Programmierbar, weil Dennis war Wenn ihr bei\n\nSpeaker 3: der App habt\n\nSpeaker 1: die Ideen habt sprechen. Ja, wenn ihr Ideen habt, was wir jetzt in den Hintergrund stellen sollen, wenn ihr was Schönes habt, was auf unser Regal soll für die wenigen, die das hier per Video gucken und nicht neu überlegen\n\nSpeaker 2: Was habt ihr denn?\n\nSpeaker 0: Das das ein leuchtendes Regnative Logo.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, ist, wir haben doch diesen lustigen Programmierer bei Geiss, der nur bei uns intern immer auftaucht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, den können wir mal 3D drucken und da hinstellen. Aber dann ableuchten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Sehr gut. Leuchten. Richard.\n\nSpeaker 0: Richard soll das mal so semitransparent drucken und dann stellen wir den dahin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Wir könnten auch mit Richards das dann eher sone Nerd Folge, mal sone 3 D Folge machen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was ist immer eher sone Nerd Folge im Vergleich zu allen anderen Folgen bei uns, die so sehr wild\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, weil's halt weil's halt nicht so viel mit Programmen zu tun hat, aber so 3 D Druck, der ist da grad voll drin und mit AI geht er wohl auch wieder Dann können\n\nSpeaker 1: wir auch Penny noch einladen, der baut grade sonen so Lego, also das mit mit Astra kann so komplette Lego Modelle und so Anleitungen und so was bauen. Richtig cool und zeigt jetzt alles in 3D an und sagt so, hey, baut 'n Fußballstadion und dann werden alle Teile zusammengesessen. Boah, und Du kannst einfach Lego Modelle selbst generieren so. Auch 'n wirklich gutes Ding. Ja.\n\nYut. Ja, Apple, genau. Ein Thema, wo wir wieder wo ich mit Halbwissen tragen kann, aber das war noch ein kleines Tipp. Tipp. Tipp ist richtig, ne?\n\nSpeaker 3: Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp.\n\nTipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp. Tipp.\n\nTipp. Tipp. Tipp.\n\nSpeaker 0: Tipp.\n\nSpeaker 1: Tilly richtig. Tilly richtig. Tilly richtig. Tilly aus der Apple Keynote, wo man erst mal so als Consumer, mein erster Mal jetzt so gedacht, ja, aber dann zur zweiten denken, oh ja, ziemlich cool und zwar ist es in der Kamera vom neuen iPhone integriert, das durch Sicherheitsmechanismen auf Pixel eben, ne, kann da inkodiert oder in das Bild reingeschrieben werden, vorsehen, das ist eine Originalaufnahme. So und das wird gespeichert, also diese Situation, also ist praktisch son bisschen wie bei den AI Bildern, wo auch hingeschrieben wird mit diesem Synth ID und so, hey, das ist irgendwie serviert, dass das 'n AI Generiert des Bild ist, gibt es diese Originalaufnahme und die Originalaufnahme bleibt in auf deinem iOS Gerät praktisch parallel zu, wenn Du das dann weiter bearbeitest oder mit der ja irgendwas machst oder so was, bleibt das da und kann halt praktisch authentifizieren, dass das ein originales Bild ist, was gemacht wurde.\n\nUnd ich finde halt in der heutigen Zeit, wo so wahnsinnig viel Fake Sachen unterwegs sind, ist es halt cool, technologisch einen Schritt weiterzugehen und halt sicher bestimmen zu können und sicher zu sagen können, das hier ist ein Originalbild, so sah die Szene aus, Du sah es aus, es wurde sicher nicht bearbeitet und sicher aufgenommen. Wie wie kann man das\n\nSpeaker 2: sich bestellen? Warum warum kann man das sich einfach nachsegnen, wenn er das verändert und das?\n\nSpeaker 1: So, und das ist jetzt sehr das Halbwissen. Also weil das irgendwie, das diese Sicherheitselemente sind irgendwie bis auf Ja, was heißt, bis auf fixe Ebene, aber es wird praktisch da reingebrannt in dieses in dieses Bild Ja. Und Du kannst halt nicht ausrechnen. Also ich mein, Du kannst Und Du kannst es auch, glaube ich Genau, Du kannst es auch nicht einfach\n\nSpeaker 2: Hattest Du das Gefühl, als Du's gelesen hast, okay, das funktioniert?\n\nSpeaker 1: Jano, wie hat dein Gefühl?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich muss sagen Ja. Da der Punkt ist ja, sie sie garantieren ja nur für das, was der Sensor so gesehen hat, ne. Du kannst natürlich jetzt einfach immer noch irgendwie 'n Screengrab abfotografieren damit oder so. Also es ist wie viele Sachen, die so in Security sind, halt auch nur 'n Teil von dieser Kette, der Du halt irgendwie glauben musst, aber es ist halt, wie viele Sachen in Security, besser als nix. So, ja?\n\nEs kann irgendwie ein Schritt davon sein. Es ist nicht die Lösung für alle diese Probleme, aber es ist, glaube ich, 'n wichtiger Baustein.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und es ist auch, es sind auch Daten, die man dann in Social Media anzeigen kann oder muss das auf deinem Handy sein?\n\nSpeaker 0: Nee, nee, es ist wohl embedded im File und Du kannst es später auch auswählen. Also so wie ja, wenn Du jetzt zum Beispiel 'n Synth ID AI Bild zu LinkedIn oder Instagram oder so hochlädst, die zeigen ja dann quasi darauf aufbauend jetzt auch schon Disclaimer an so, hey, das ist ein AI generiertes Bild, nur dass Du Bescheid weißt. Und so könnten sie quasi in Zukunft auch anzeigen, so, hey, dieses Bild ist quasi referenz Image, bla, verifiziert,\n\nSpeaker 3: dass das so so echt ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich frag mich, ob das dass das so so echt ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Er fragt mich, ob das dann, also, ja, muss ich mich mal einlesen, weil das find ich eigentlich ganz spannend. Ich mein, man könnte so was ja ähnlich wie Zertifikate in bei Webseiten machen, dass halt Apple, dass Du das bei Apple gegenchecken musst? Also ist das\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist halt wieder son zentralisierterer Ansatz, ne? Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 3: Da bin\n\nSpeaker 0: ich auch für Infrastruktur und eine zentrale Authority, der Du irgendwie vertraust. Und das ist halt genau das, was sie quasi nicht machen wollten damit, aber das wär der der Gegenentwurf. Dennis, hast Du das gesehen, ob das nur bei den neuen iPhones Pro oder nur mit dem neuen iOS oder auch rückwirkend für andere Modelle oder wer wer hat das denn jetzt alles?\n\nSpeaker 1: Oder Der geht nur, genau, das geht nur für 9 18 pro iPhones, weil eben und das kommen wir zu deinen Zertifikaten, wenn dieser Chip, dieser Chip initialisiert wird oder dieser Kamerachip initialisiert wird, dann erstellt der einen Key Ja. Letztendlich. Und dann gibt es, der private Key bleibt halt dann irgendwie auf dem Gerät Ja. Und dann gibt es halt sone eine Certificate Authority, die irgendwie dahinter steht und dann kann später Apple das praktisch sagen, dass es zu einem Gerät gehört. Ja, das\n\nSpeaker 2: mein ich. Ich weiß nicht. Weil da\n\nSpeaker 0: muss nicht das Bild zu Apple selbst irgendwie bla, das ist halt nur die die Zertifizierungskette, ne, sone\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, das meinen sie aber. Also, dass Du, sag ich mal, eine 1 Autorität hast, Apple, die sagen kann, ja, ja,\n\nSpeaker 3: das\n\nSpeaker 2: ist von 'nem Gerät von uns, weil das ist ja das Einzige, was in meinen Augen auch wirklich nicht Also und geborene ist das dann da dem mit Vertrauen so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Okay. Und tatsächlich ist das auch noch auch noch über den Apple Push Notification Service, wo dann son Hardview Protokoll läuft und immer guckt, dass das alles noch aktuell ist. Also es ist schon ziemlich Okay. Ziemlich, würde ich sagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und ja. Und für Videos und Bilder beides. Wow.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich glaub nur für Bilder gerade.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber dann machst Du halt son Start Frame, machst ein Bild und nimmst dann 'n Video auf. Also wenn's Zeitung drum, Berichterstattung geht zum Beispiel. Ich mein, da kannst Du ja ein Foto machen und danach hat das Video. Da kannst Du halt auch nicht sagen, dass es die komplette Videolänge länger jetzt Ja. Diagnostiziert ist, aber es geht ja erst mal son bisschen auf die authentische Situation.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da ist wahrscheinlich George Schwierigkeit dabei, dir das zu erwähnen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja. Also freuen wir uns alle auf neue iPhones gegen AI Deep Facts oder so was.\n\nSpeaker 2: Find ich's gut.\n\nSpeaker 1: Dann könnten wir vielleicht\n\nSpeaker 2: auch endlich mal 'n Social Media bestellen, was nur echte Medien erlaubt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Netzwerk meinst Du?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nur automatisiert echte Bilder ohne Überarbeit.\n\nSpeaker 2: Der will das schon. Der er hat. Ich\n\nSpeaker 0: hab noch eine ganz kurze eine ganz kurze Randnotiz, die mir heute Morgen hier über den Ticker gelaufen ist, wenn wir jetzt mit diesem iPhone Thema durch sind. Weil wir hatten das auch vor 'n paar Monaten schon mal besprochen, dass AWS ja 1 seiner Datacenters offline nehmen musste wegen dem Irankrieg, das in Bahrain irgendwie getroffen wurde. Und sie haben jetzt heute Nacht eine Pressemitteilung rausgegeben, dass so, sie schreiben dieses Ding halt komplett ab. So, alle Daten weg, alles gar nix, jeder Recoveryversuch war quasi nicht mehr zu gebrauchen und das ist, glaube ich, so wie ich das sehe, das 1. Mal in der Geschichte von AWS, dass das halt überhaupt passiert ist, dass so 'n Datacenter oder wenns halt nur ein Datacenter der Region gab, quasi eine ganze Region, verloren hast so, ja.\n\nUnd das nur so als als kleiner Reminder, dass so Redundancy und Multiregion und so sollte man sich mal anschauen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Back up Strategien, Feuer mit Jan Gregor.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also, meine Back up\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, rateon alles kein Backup, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, rateon alles kein Backup, ist so. Aber fand ich krass so, dass\n\nSpeaker 1: also a, dass\n\nSpeaker 0: sie halt monatelang daran waren, das halt irgendwie wieder aufzubauen und da halt irgendwie versucht haben, Festplatten zu recoovern und mit verschiedensten Forensickern da irgendwie dran waren und bla, aber jetzt halt doch irgendwie, als sie eingestehen mussten, so, das das kriegen wir nicht mehr hin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, es ist sicher\n\nSpeaker 0: öfter mal was Neues.\n\nSpeaker 1: Omasisch. Oh\n\nSpeaker 2: Gottes. So, ich krieg sogar den ganzen Sinn mal so ganz knapp an der Grenze.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weißt Du, ich hab als Micky News damals vorgelesen hab, da hab ich mich schon die Nesseln gesetzt mit so, wie man wie man darüber berichtet, aber das das war jetzt für 'n Vereins obendrauf.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich habe nicht darüber nachgedacht. Es war\n\nSpeaker 2: kein kein bisschen gefasst.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ein Abschied. Es war noch nicht mal eine absichtliche Referenz. Es war einfach nur ein Wort, ein\n\nSpeaker 2: Das hab ich mir schon gedacht. Ja, das ist so Priming. Du wurdest weg gepimet. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aha. Okay, okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Fantastisch. Du kommst noch mit durch von\n\nSpeaker 0: sympathisch bist. So, damit sind wir fertig für heute. Wir sehen uns alle gleich\n\nSpeaker 1: Heute Abend.\n\nSpeaker 0: Heute Abend.\n\nSpeaker 2: Morgen. Ja. Bad Nauheim.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bad Nauheim, place und ansonsten spätestens am fünfundzwanzigsten sechsundzwanzigsten hier\n\nSpeaker 1: zu Programm Econ.\n\nSpeaker 3: So. Da\n\nSpeaker 1: da hast 'n Monat gehabt vergessen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Na, 25 sechster November, genau. So ist das. So ist das.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 2: Freuen wir auf euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir freuen uns auf euch. Auf der neuen Programmierkorn App mit richtig guten Intro Videos mit neuem Light und Sound, alles am Start.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danket an Youtube Streaming auch?\n\nSpeaker 1: Youtube Streaming natürlich erst, wenn wir ausgekocht sind, sonst kommen die Leute.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja? Fair, so können wir das machen. Wunderbar. Wenn ausverkauft, dann\n\nSpeaker 2: Youtube Streaming. Gut. Ja, ja, machen wir.\n\nSpeaker 0: Danke euch für die Zeit. Danke da draußen fürs Zuhören. Ihr wisst, wo ihr uns erreichen könnt. Denkt dran, eine E-Mail an Garrett at Programmier Punkt Bar zu schreiben, wenn ihr nicht wisst, was eine Saal Wette ist. Und ansonsten hören wir uns hier nächste Woche wieder in den News.\n\nBis denne. Tschau, tschau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Tschüs. Tschau, miese.",[24879,24888,24892,24896,24903,24912,24917,24925,24930,24935,24940,24947,24958,24964,24968,24978,24981,24985,24992,24996,25007,25020,25029,25032,25045,25057,25061,25068,25075,25079,25085,25090,25095,25106,25115,25120,25127,25135,25139,25143,25148,25154,25158,25163,25169,25172,25181,25188,25192,25199,25212,25224,25229,25237,25246,25250,25262,25275,25288,25301,25314,25327,25331,25339,25343,25355,25362,25366,25372,25376,25380,25384,25397,25403,25414,25423,25435,25445,25449,25457,25462,25475,25487,25491,25498,25504,25511,25522,25534,25545,25558,25571,25584,25597,25608,25621,25634,25639,25643,25652,25662,25666,25674,25684,25692,25695,25706,25718,25730,25733,25737,25750,25754,25767,25777,25790,25794,25803,25811,25818,25822,25832,25844,25856,25861,25870,25877,25884,25889,25901,25905,25909,25922,25934,25946,25959,25969,25976,25982,25995,26002,26005,26009,26013,26019,26025,26029,26042,26055,26067,26079,26085,26095,26099,26110,26119,26132,26138,26144,26151,26154,26158,26166,26171,26181,26187,26198,26204,26208,26213,26217,26221,26225,26228,26234,26240,26244,26251,26255,26259,26263,26269,26275,26279,26284,26288,26292,26304,26315,26322,26329,26334,26337,26348,26355,26361,26371,26375,26379,26392,26398,26402,26411,26415,26419,26428,26433,26437,26446,26457,26465,26469,26475,26478,26482,26492,26499,26503,26515,26519,26524,26528,26532,26536,26540,26544,26551,26564,26568,26572,26576,26580,26586,26590,26595,26599,26603,26607,26612,26616,26622,26626,26634,26643,26648,26653,26661,26665,26668,26674,26678,26682,26686,26691,26699,26702,26706,26709,26715,26719,26723,26731,26738,26750,26756],{"sentences":24880,"speaker":129,"num_words":24887,"start":127,"end":287},[24881,24883,24885],{"text":24882,"start":127,"end":204},"Hallo liebe Hörerinnen, heute ist Kalenderwoche 38, ja 20 22 und herzlich willkommen zu den Programmierball News.",{"text":24884,"start":209,"end":233},"Ich bin endlich aus dem Urlaub wieder da.",{"text":24886,"start":233,"end":287},"Der Jann ist wieder für euch am Start und mit mir im Studio sind",39,{"sentences":24889,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":290,"end":296},[24890],{"text":24891,"start":290,"end":296},"Dennis Becker,",{"sentences":24893,"speaker":304,"num_words":304,"start":301,"end":309},[24894],{"text":24895,"start":301,"end":309},"Garil Smog.",{"sentences":24897,"speaker":129,"num_words":24902,"start":314,"end":362},[24898,24900],{"text":24899,"start":314,"end":334},"Wunder, egal, das ist die 1.",{"text":24901,"start":334,"end":362},"Podcastaufnahme, die wir seit Monaten zusammen machen.",13,{"sentences":24904,"speaker":304,"num_words":24911,"start":365,"end":432},[24905,24907,24909],{"text":24906,"start":365,"end":372},"Ja, krass.",{"text":24908,"start":372,"end":387},"Wo war ich eigentlich?",{"text":24910,"start":387,"end":432},"Habt ihr das zu einem gesagt irgendwie so, als ich gegangen bin so?",19,{"sentences":24913,"speaker":129,"num_words":24916,"start":432,"end":453},[24914],{"text":24915,"start":432,"end":453},"Ich glaub, Dennis hat das gesagt.",6,{"sentences":24918,"speaker":304,"num_words":24924,"start":453,"end":516},[24919,24921,24922],{"text":24920,"start":453,"end":473},"Er hat ist keinem aufgefallen.",{"text":481,"start":478,"end":479},{"text":24923,"start":483,"end":516},"Hat keiner, er hat niemand geschrieben oder so, wo's grade",16,{"sentences":24926,"speaker":106,"num_words":24929,"start":520,"end":596},[24927],{"text":24928,"start":520,"end":596},"Doch, wir sollten am Anfang konnten wir die E-Mail 5 nicht mehr beantworten, aber wir haben alle gesagt, Du kommst September.",21,{"sentences":24931,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":600,"end":613},[24932],{"text":24933,"start":600,"end":613},"Ist dann automatisch sone",4,{"sentences":24936,"speaker":106,"num_words":4711,"start":615,"end":628},[24937,24938,24939],{"text":619,"start":615,"end":616},{"text":624,"start":616,"end":622},{"text":630,"start":627,"end":628},{"sentences":24941,"speaker":304,"num_words":24946,"start":628,"end":671},[24942,24944],{"text":24943,"start":628,"end":645},"Ja, ist mir wieder da.",{"text":24945,"start":649,"end":671},"Fein So wie Jan, guck mal.",11,{"sentences":24948,"speaker":106,"num_words":24957,"start":671,"end":794},[24949,24951,24953,24955],{"text":24950,"start":671,"end":702},"Was war eine was eine spezielle Folge heute?",{"text":24952,"start":702,"end":713},"So wie was?",{"text":24954,"start":713,"end":725},"So wie Jan, ja.",{"text":24956,"start":725,"end":794},"Also Jan war zwar nur 2 Wochen weg, von 3 hätte ich's so nicht so beeindruckend, aber Du warst",34,{"sentences":24959,"speaker":304,"num_words":24946,"start":794,"end":832},[24960,24962],{"text":24961,"start":794,"end":805},"hier Monate weg.",{"text":24963,"start":805,"end":832},"Konnte nicht so viel, wie nennt man das?",{"sentences":24965,"speaker":129,"num_words":24924,"start":832,"end":887},[24966],{"text":24967,"start":832,"end":887},"Aber also ich wette gerne und ich haben eine ähnliche Strecke zurückgelegt in der Zeit einfach.",{"sentences":24969,"speaker":304,"num_words":24977,"start":892,"end":956},[24970,24972,24974,24975],{"text":24971,"start":892,"end":898},"Wahrscheinlich, ja.",{"text":24973,"start":902,"end":925},"Meinst Du, mit dem Auto meinst Du?",{"text":619,"start":925,"end":929},{"text":24976,"start":929,"end":956},"Ich fliege dazu, kriegst Du das natürlich nicht.",18,{"sentences":24979,"speaker":129,"num_words":106,"start":956,"end":960},[24980],{"text":369,"start":956,"end":960},{"sentences":24982,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":965,"end":971},[24983],{"text":24984,"start":965,"end":971},"na, ja.",{"sentences":24986,"speaker":129,"num_words":24991,"start":974,"end":1080},[24987,24989],{"text":24988,"start":974,"end":1071},"Wir wollen neben Fahrstrecken heute sprechen über AI und AI Bremsen und dass dazu ausgerechnet Dennis spricht, hätte ich vor 2 Wochen auch nicht gedacht, aber hey, Zeiten ändern sich.",{"text":24990,"start":1075,"end":1080},"Wir sprechen",32,{"sentences":24993,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":1083,"end":1090},[24994],{"text":24995,"start":1083,"end":1090},"Keine Meinung.",{"sentences":24997,"speaker":129,"num_words":25006,"start":1094,"end":1249},[24998,25000,25002,25004],{"text":24999,"start":1094,"end":1152},"Wir sprechen über den Amp Coding Agent und wir sprechen über Shopify und Native oder Nicht Native Apps.",{"text":25001,"start":1156,"end":1188},"Bevor wir damit anfangen, noch 'n paar Housekeeping Sachen.",{"text":25003,"start":1188,"end":1227},"Dennis machst Du diesen AI News Explainern noch am Anfang von jeder Folge?",{"text":25005,"start":1231,"end":1249},"Dann wär jetzt deine Force",45,{"sentences":25008,"speaker":106,"num_words":25019,"start":1253,"end":1610},[25009,25011,25013,25015,25017],{"text":25010,"start":1253,"end":1430},"Ja, wir können also falls ihr noch nicht mitbekommen habt, habt, dass wir jetzt nicht mehr explizite AI News machen, weil wir festgestellt haben, dass das natürlich in unseren Alltag mehr und mehr Einzug erhellte und vielleicht auch die AI News sich über die Jahre 'n bisschen entwickelt haben und nicht mehr nur Modell- und Parameter Updates gab.",{"text":25012,"start":1430,"end":1535},"Von daher hier der Mix aus Dingen, die uns aus der Tech Welt begegnen und natürlich automatisch dadurch viele News, die aus dem Reihebrett gleichzeitig kommen, aber zusammen in 1 wöchentlich erscheinenden News Folge.",{"text":25014,"start":1535,"end":1549},"Und was mit Philipp?",{"text":25016,"start":1553,"end":1579},"Philipp ist immer wieder dabei, auch in diesem Format.",{"text":25018,"start":1582,"end":1610},"Philipp, ob bist Du, letzte Woche war er da.",114,{"sentences":25021,"speaker":106,"num_words":25028,"start":1610,"end":1730},[25022,25024,25026],{"text":25023,"start":1610,"end":1660},"Er ist heute nicht da, weil wir noch keinen gemeinsamen fixen neuen Termin in 1 Uhrzeit gefunden haben.",{"text":25025,"start":1660,"end":1672},"Der allen passt.",{"text":25027,"start":1676,"end":1730},"Das ist eine Aufgabe für Jan Träger im Getriebe, der diese Woche wieder am Start ist und das organisieren wird.",41,{"sentences":25030,"speaker":304,"num_words":106,"start":1734,"end":1735},[25031],{"text":1738,"start":1734,"end":1735},{"sentences":25033,"speaker":129,"num_words":25044,"start":1741,"end":2001},[25034,25036,25038,25040,25042],{"text":25035,"start":1741,"end":1761},"Speaking of, diese Woche wieder am Start.",{"text":25037,"start":1761,"end":1778},"Diese Woche ist nämlich auch Meet-up.",{"text":25039,"start":1783,"end":1842},"Wenn ihr die Folge hört, habt ihr quasi, wenn ihr sie am Tag des Erscheinens hört Seit 4 Jahren.",{"text":25041,"start":1847,"end":1901},"Abends noch die Gelegenheit, ganz schnell nach was nach Hause zu kommen, zum Programmier Barbecue.",{"text":25043,"start":1906,"end":2001},"Fabio und Krishna stehen am Grill und außerdem gibt's einen Talk, einen Preview Talk von unserer Programmierkorn über AI und Image Upscaling und wie wir das hier so machen.",76,{"sentences":25046,"speaker":129,"num_words":25056,"start":2003,"end":2236},[25047,25049,25051,25053,25055],{"text":25048,"start":2003,"end":2014},"Das ist ganz interessant.",{"text":25050,"start":2017,"end":2067},"Und wer dann Bock hat auf die Programmiercon, der darf, kann, soll, muss sich jetzt beeilen.",{"text":25052,"start":2070,"end":2154},"Die letzten, ich glaub 20 Prozent der Tickets oder so was sind noch da und nur wer bis Ende September sein Ticket kauft, kriegt ja sein T-Shirt mit dazu.",{"text":25054,"start":2154,"end":2231},"Also Hobby Hopp, Dennis will ja wieder seine Saal Wette gewinnen und Dessert mitbestellen beim Catering und das machen wir nur, wenn ausverkauft ist.",{"text":619,"start":2235,"end":2236},74,{"sentences":25058,"speaker":129,"num_words":4711,"start":2239,"end":2249},[25059],{"text":25060,"start":2239,"end":2249},"Dementsprechend Times Running.",{"sentences":25062,"speaker":304,"num_words":25067,"start":2253,"end":2281},[25063,25065],{"text":25064,"start":2253,"end":2266},"Das muss ich wieder anmachen.",{"text":25066,"start":2270,"end":2281},"Das liest dann keiner.",9,{"sentences":25069,"speaker":129,"num_words":25074,"start":2284,"end":2379},[25070,25072],{"text":25071,"start":2284,"end":2357},"Ich weiß, Salvette ist, glaub ich, aber auch son son Ding, das das kennen die Jüngeren, glaub ich, gar nicht da draußen, oder?",{"text":25073,"start":2357,"end":2379},"Das war jetzt, war jetzt schlechtes Framing.",30,{"sentences":25076,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":2383,"end":2397},[25077],{"text":25078,"start":2383,"end":2397},"Na, der begriff schon.",{"sentences":25080,"speaker":106,"num_words":24911,"start":2401,"end":2460},[25081,25083],{"text":25082,"start":2401,"end":2414},"Na, jetzt halt doch.",{"text":25084,"start":2414,"end":2460},"Also wer wie wie wie jung musst Du sein, nicht Wetten, dass geguckt zu haben?",{"sentences":25086,"speaker":129,"num_words":25089,"start":2464,"end":2512},[25087],{"text":25088,"start":2464,"end":2512},"Ja, wenn Du da jetzt son son Gen-Z-Mensch bist, dann hast Du nie Wetten, dass gesehen, oder?",17,{"sentences":25091,"speaker":106,"num_words":25094,"start":2512,"end":2527},[25092],{"text":25093,"start":2512,"end":2527},"Wann hört er das denn",5,{"sentences":25096,"speaker":304,"num_words":25105,"start":2527,"end":2581},[25097,25098,25099,25101,25103],{"text":2531,"start":2527,"end":2529},{"text":2537,"start":2534,"end":2535},{"text":25100,"start":2539,"end":2546},"Das mit Gottschalk?",{"text":25102,"start":2546,"end":2573},"War das schon ziemlich lange her, oder?",{"text":25104,"start":2573,"end":2581},"2008 Euro.",14,{"sentences":25107,"speaker":106,"num_words":25114,"start":2585,"end":2771},[25108,25110,25112],{"text":25109,"start":2585,"end":2625},"2008, aber Du hast es ja heut jung geguckt, so mit 6 oder so.",{"text":25111,"start":2625,"end":2674},"Also man man mit 6 drüber, dann durfte man ja durchaus schon mal wetten, dass gucken.",{"text":25113,"start":2678,"end":2771},"Und wenn Du jetzt oder sag mal, einfach zu rechnen, 8, also dann war's Zweitausenderkinder, die sind jetzt 6 20, können sie noch grade geguckt haben, also unter 26 nicht.",60,{"sentences":25116,"speaker":129,"num_words":25089,"start":2773,"end":2820},[25117,25118],{"text":619,"start":2773,"end":2774},{"text":25119,"start":2778,"end":2820},"Also wenn ihr da draußen nicht wisst, was eine Seilwetter ist, dann lasst es uns wissen.",{"sentences":25121,"speaker":304,"num_words":25105,"start":2823,"end":2869},[25122,25123,25125],{"text":619,"start":2823,"end":2824},{"text":25124,"start":2828,"end":2841},"Ja, ist ja wirklich interessant.",{"text":25126,"start":2845,"end":2869},"Oh denn, ach so, das kommt am Ende.",{"sentences":25128,"speaker":129,"num_words":24991,"start":2873,"end":2962},[25129,25131,25133],{"text":25130,"start":2873,"end":2882},"Das kommt am Ende.",{"text":25132,"start":2882,"end":2902},"Und das finden die Leute auch raus.",{"text":25134,"start":2902,"end":2962},"Ich traue das unseren Hörerinnen schon zu, dass sie, wenn sie uns erreichen wollen, das auch ohne unseren Hinweis zu finden.",{"sentences":25136,"speaker":304,"num_words":24902,"start":2962,"end":3009},[25137],{"text":25138,"start":2962,"end":3009},"Macht's gerne, schreibt mir eine Mail und sagt, ob ihr euch schon Einmal",{"sentences":25140,"speaker":129,"num_words":24946,"start":3009,"end":3048},[25141],{"text":25142,"start":3009,"end":3048},"an Garrett at Programmier Punkt bar schreiben, Garrett, was Saal Wette?",{"sentences":25144,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":3052,"end":3064},[25145,25147],{"text":25146,"start":3052,"end":3059},"Es ist Garrett.",{"text":3066,"start":3063,"end":3064},{"sentences":25149,"speaker":106,"num_words":24934,"start":3068,"end":3081},[25150,25152],{"text":25151,"start":3068,"end":3073},"wir einrichten.",{"text":25153,"start":3076,"end":3081},"Ich dachte,",{"sentences":25155,"speaker":129,"num_words":24902,"start":3085,"end":3121},[25156],{"text":25157,"start":3085,"end":3121},"Dennis hat die alle mal eingerichtet, nachdem ich auch einnahmen wollte und so.",{"sentences":25159,"speaker":106,"num_words":25162,"start":3121,"end":3172},[25160],{"text":25161,"start":3121,"end":3172},"Ich hab den Dave alleine bekommen, weil wir darüber gesprochen haben, der Podcast vorher, das",15,{"sentences":25164,"speaker":304,"num_words":25067,"start":3172,"end":3202},[25165,25167],{"text":25166,"start":3172,"end":3183},"ist schon nur onimand.",{"text":25168,"start":3187,"end":3202},"Also ich hab's eine, ne?",{"sentences":25170,"speaker":106,"num_words":106,"start":3202,"end":3207},[25171],{"text":3210,"start":3202,"end":3207},{"sentences":25173,"speaker":304,"num_words":24977,"start":3212,"end":3271},[25174,25176,25178,25180],{"text":25175,"start":3212,"end":3249},"Aber ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob's gabelt app programmieren ist.",{"text":25177,"start":3249,"end":3258},"Darf ich das?",{"text":25179,"start":3258,"end":3267},"Oh, guck doch.",{"text":3274,"start":3267,"end":3271},{"sentences":25182,"speaker":129,"num_words":25187,"start":3271,"end":3337},[25183,25185],{"text":25184,"start":3271,"end":3318},"nee, es ist früher bei mir war es ja, das Vornamen und so.",{"text":25186,"start":3318,"end":3337},"Es gibt keine Nachnamen bei der Programmierwahl.",20,{"sentences":25189,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":3342,"end":3353},[25190],{"text":25191,"start":3342,"end":3353},"Hashtag gerne per Du.",{"sentences":25193,"speaker":129,"num_words":25187,"start":3357,"end":3417},[25194,25195,25197],{"text":3361,"start":3357,"end":3358},{"text":25196,"start":3358,"end":3366},"Oh, gut.",{"text":25198,"start":3366,"end":3417},"Dennis, erzähl uns was zu dieser AI Bremse und wer bremst da wen und warum und wieso?",{"sentences":25200,"speaker":106,"num_words":25211,"start":3420,"end":4003},[25201,25203,25205,25207,25209],{"text":25202,"start":3420,"end":3464},"Ja, das sind wir mal gespannt, ob da überhaupt was gebremst wird und wie das wie das passiert.",{"text":25204,"start":3467,"end":3575},"Aber letztendlich, zumindest finde ich, ist es wieder sehr in der Öffentlichkeit gewesen, ja, und damit mein ich, ne, auch ein Tagesschau Thema und sonstige Sachen so, weil's dann große Diskussionen ausgelöst hat.",{"text":25206,"start":3579,"end":3786},"Anstoß des Ganzen, könnte man sagen, war 1 1 1 Brief oder ein Statement von Amaday, dem dem CEO von Athropic, der gesagt hat, hey, pass mal auf, wir sollten uns zusammenschließen und die Entwicklung von KI verlangsamen, weil uns das vielleicht gerade ein bisschen aus den Händen läuft und die Gefahr besteht, dass die Menschheit darunter leidet, was auch son bisschen Genau, eine Definition.",{"text":25208,"start":3786,"end":3903},"Und er wiederum war aber son bisschen, inspiriert ist, glaub ich, das falsche Wort, aber die war, die Dinge, die ihn son bisschen in der Vergangenheit da beschäftigt haben, sind auch die Themen, die wir hier schon besprochen haben in den News Folgen.",{"text":25210,"start":3903,"end":4003},"Also dieser diese verschiedenen Angriffe, die's ja mittlerweile gab, wo sich irgendwie Asians zusammengeschlossen haben und geschafft haben, aus Testumgebungen auszubrechen, obwohl sie eigentlich ein relativ klar definiertes kleines Ziel hatten.",190,{"sentences":25213,"speaker":106,"num_words":25223,"start":4007,"end":4266},[25214,25216,25218,25220,25221],{"text":25215,"start":4007,"end":4082},"Hat auch schon dort auf jeden Fall dazu geführt, dass ja, dass dass sich da mehr Gedanken gemacht werden, okay, was sind da tatsächlich die realen Gefahren?",{"text":25217,"start":4086,"end":4121},"Ein konkretes, eine konkrete Szenario, was er belannte dort in dem Schreiben.",{"text":25219,"start":4121,"end":4203},"Es hat also gesagt, okay, wenn es so weiter geht, geht der davon aus, dass irgendwelche Schwärme von Agents in 6 bis 12 Monaten das Internet übernehmen können.",{"text":4210,"start":4207,"end":4208},{"text":25222,"start":4212,"end":4266},"Was natürlich schon recht gravierend ist, je nachdem, welche Intention dahintersteckt mit dem, was sie da tun.",85,{"sentences":25225,"speaker":106,"num_words":25228,"start":4270,"end":4390},[25226],{"text":25227,"start":4270,"end":4390},"Und ja, ich hab auch eine Auslöser hat man auch, glaub ich, schon kurz drüber gesprochen, auch 'n relativ bekannter Mitarbeiter von Athropic hatte auch Und war und war damit auch relativ viel in in in in Newsendungen und so was unterwegs.",42,{"sentences":25230,"speaker":304,"num_words":25236,"start":4390,"end":4472},[25231,25233,25234],{"text":25232,"start":4390,"end":4438},"Man hätte nicht was, es Also man muss auch nicht jetzt in 2, 3 Wochen irgendwie sein.",{"text":4445,"start":4438,"end":4442},{"text":25235,"start":4447,"end":4472},"Also in in, glaub ich, kurzen, letzten Zeitraum.",26,{"sentences":25238,"speaker":106,"num_words":25245,"start":4475,"end":4705},[25239,25241,25243],{"text":25240,"start":4475,"end":4562},"Genau und 1 hat er gesagt so, hey, wir sollten uns zusammenschießen, denn am Ende bringt es nichts, wenn eine einzelne Firma irgendwie langsamer macht, werden die anderen genauso weiter tun.",{"text":25242,"start":4565,"end":4696},"Und war so der Vorschlag, lass uns das erst mal in demokratischen Staaten tun, praktisch son bisschen die Kontrolle auch darüber hat, ob wir das zumindest machen und durchsetzen kann und danach im besten Fall natürlich auch in autoritären Staaten zu versuchen, das nachzuziehen und dort auch zu verlangsamen.",{"text":25244,"start":4700,"end":4705},"Und Da",82,{"sentences":25247,"speaker":4711,"num_words":304,"start":4705,"end":4714},[25248],{"text":25249,"start":4705,"end":4714},"hast Du",{"sentences":25251,"speaker":129,"num_words":25261,"start":4714,"end":4852},[25252,25254,25255,25257,25259],{"text":25253,"start":4714,"end":4729},"eine doofe Zwischenfrage gestellt.",{"text":619,"start":4729,"end":4733},{"text":25256,"start":4736,"end":4755},"Was meint er denn, wenn er sagt, verlangsamen?",{"text":25258,"start":4759,"end":4839},"Heißt das einfach son Moratorium auf, wir machen keine neuen Models mehr oder wir sind dann restriktiver in den in den APIs oder in Harnesten von dem, was wir anbieten?",{"text":25260,"start":4839,"end":4852},"Was will er denn da?",48,{"sentences":25263,"speaker":106,"num_words":25274,"start":4855,"end":5123},[25264,25266,25268,25270,25272],{"text":25265,"start":4855,"end":4864},"Ja, gute Frage.",{"text":25267,"start":4864,"end":4921},"Also er möchte am Ende irgendwie son Zeitfenster von ein bis 2 Jahren, die die er nutzen möchte für die Sicherheitsvorkehrungen.",{"text":25269,"start":4925,"end":5027},"Also er geht einfach, er sagt so, wenn wir in der Forschung so ein bis 2 Jahre hätten, Sicherheitsregeln und uns darauf zu fokussieren, dass wir das Ganze sicherer machen, dann wär das schon 'n sehr großer Schritt.",{"text":25271,"start":5030,"end":5089},"Aber ganz konkret so, also von wegen, wir schalten jetzt unsere Trainingsmaschinen ab, so konkret wird er da dann nicht.",{"text":25273,"start":5091,"end":5123},"Das Ding ist auch, also das ist auch noch ein weiterer Faktor.",94,{"sentences":25276,"speaker":106,"num_words":25287,"start":5123,"end":5469},[25277,25279,25281,25283,25285],{"text":25278,"start":5123,"end":5239},"Er sagt etwas, seit Sommer hat sich die Entwicklung noch mal so extrem beschleunigt der Modelle, denn also aus dem Grund, dass KI jetzt selbst KI Modelle trainiert, also dann diese selbstverschärknen Effekte, die da jetzt langsam zu tragen kommen.",{"text":25280,"start":5242,"end":5348},"Und das ist halt der Part, der son bisschen aus aus dem Ruder läuft und wo man nicht mehr ganz weiß, nicht mehr hinterherkommt mit, wie groß sind denn eigentlich die Möglichkeiten und was sind denn die Sicherheitsmechanismen, die wir aktuell brauchen?",{"text":25282,"start":5352,"end":5357},"Und genau.",{"text":25284,"start":5362,"end":5403},"Interessanterweise gab's ja schon immer mal wieder son bisschen Vorstöße unter unterschiedlichen aus unterschiedlichen Richtungen.",{"text":25286,"start":5408,"end":5469},"Fast ihm das mal ganz interessant war, dass sehr kurz später Sam Waltman von OpenAI gesagt hat, ja, findet er richtig.",120,{"sentences":25289,"speaker":106,"num_words":25300,"start":5473,"end":5823},[25290,25292,25294,25296,25298],{"text":25291,"start":5473,"end":5521},"Und sie würden da gerne mitmachen und würden sich dafür einsetzen, dass man da eine gemeinsame Regelung findet.",{"text":25293,"start":5524,"end":5576},"Und selbst unser Freund Elon Musk hat danach auf Ex gepostet, hat gesagt, Dario hat recht.",{"text":25295,"start":5580,"end":5618},"Also das heißt auch Dame Zustimmung gezeigt, ja, dass das was ist.",{"text":25297,"start":5622,"end":5710},"Kurze kurze Zeitnot irgendwie superinteressant find ich, ne, dass jetzt sogar die 3 Großen der i-Labs irgendwie vor 'nem Jahr, der hat Google auf jeden Fall dabei gewesen.",{"text":25299,"start":5710,"end":5823},"Das ist irgendwie krass, wenn so vom, ne, von der war damals war Google über den Modellen, ich weiß nicht, das war, Germany 3 oder 150 3 wahrscheinlich, ne, irgendwie so top dort und immer dabei.",110,{"sentences":25302,"speaker":106,"num_words":25313,"start":5823,"end":6250},[25303,25305,25307,25309,25311],{"text":25304,"start":5823,"end":5972},"Und wie schnell das passieren kann so vom vom Mininging, das ist jetzt nicht so, ne, Audi spielen nicht ganz vorne damit, das heißt, die der bohrt irgendwie die Meinung nicht, was, glaub ich, auch gefährlich ist, weil grundsätzlich werden sie wahrscheinlich aufschließen, ne, aber dass man das trotzdem nicht so im Fokus hat.",{"text":25306,"start":5975,"end":5981},"Anyway, genau.",{"text":25308,"start":5983,"end":6044},"Es gibt jetzt, glaube ich, noch nichts Konkretes, was da was da rausgibt praktisch rausgekommen ist, also es gibt jetzt noch keine Vereinbarung.",{"text":25310,"start":6044,"end":6159},"Es gibt auch viele kritische Stimmen, die sagen, hey, auch wieder alles nur Marketing und letztendlich einfach nur son einmal boah, die Fähigkeiten sind so groß, deswegen müssen wir ja höher bewertet werden als eine der Motivationen, die dahintersteht.",{"text":25312,"start":6163,"end":6250},"Und das andere, wir ziehen uns jetzt schon ein bisschen raus aus möglichen Haftungssachen, weil wir sagen, boah, das ist superschwer und wenn wir das jetzt nicht bremsen, haben wir's nicht hinter Kontrolle.",151,{"sentences":25315,"speaker":106,"num_words":25326,"start":6250,"end":6525},[25316,25318,25320,25322,25324],{"text":25317,"start":6250,"end":6330},"Und wenn 1 jetzt irgendwas kaputtgeht danach, dann kann man sagen, ja, wir haben's ja gesagt, wir wollten's eigentlich langsamer machen, aber es wurde sich nicht darauf geeinigt.",{"text":25319,"start":6334,"end":6368},"Also das sind son bisschen die kritischen Stimmen, die das eher als sehen ähnlich.",{"text":25321,"start":6368,"end":6410},"OpenAI hat daraufhin auch gesagt, sie verschieben ihren Börsenstart und wollen das auch nicht machen.",{"text":25323,"start":6412,"end":6428},"Es hat halt auch son leichtes Geschmäcklich.",{"text":25325,"start":6428,"end":6525},"Meine Zahlen sind jetzt grad sowieso nicht so rosig, dass man sagt, ah, hey, okay, es wär total sinnvoll, dieser Zeitpunkt, aber ist jetzt auch 'n bisschen darauf Das Gute ist Ja.",96,{"sentences":25328,"speaker":106,"num_words":24977,"start":6528,"end":6581},[25329],{"text":25330,"start":6528,"end":6581},"Die USA haben natürlich 'n fantastischen Präsidenten, den wo viele Nationen sich freuen würden, wenn sie ihn hätten.",{"sentences":25332,"speaker":304,"num_words":149,"start":6584,"end":6617},[25333,25335,25337],{"text":25334,"start":6584,"end":6600},"Oh, ich, was kommt jetzt, Alter?",{"text":25336,"start":6600,"end":6608},"Was ist das?",{"text":25338,"start":6608,"end":6617},"Ist die Spurgelt?",{"sentences":25340,"speaker":129,"num_words":25187,"start":6621,"end":6682},[25341],{"text":25342,"start":6621,"end":6682},"Ich ich überleg grad, wo ich diesen Irony Disclaimer hier nachher einbauen muss, damit wir nicht von E-Mails überhäuft werden.",{"sentences":25344,"speaker":106,"num_words":24991,"start":6685,"end":6778},[25345,25347,25349,25351,25353],{"text":25346,"start":6685,"end":6714},"Und ich irgendwie hoffentlich schaff ich das jetzt so so schnell.",{"text":25348,"start":6714,"end":6719},"Oh man.",{"text":25350,"start":6723,"end":6732},"Ich wollt das zitieren.",{"text":25352,"start":6736,"end":6748},"Ich hab's leider nicht offen.",{"text":25354,"start":6752,"end":6778},"Der gepostet hat, hey, es ist alles gar kein Problem.",{"sentences":25356,"speaker":106,"num_words":25361,"start":6778,"end":6853},[25357,25359],{"text":25358,"start":6778,"end":6828},"Man braucht keine Bremse, wenn man einen so guten Präsidenten hat, in Klammern, mit Warum IQ?",{"text":25360,"start":6833,"end":6853},"Hi Hi Hi I im Kino",22,{"sentences":25363,"speaker":129,"num_words":24934,"start":6853,"end":6863},[25364],{"text":25365,"start":6853,"end":6863},"hat die doch gesagt.",{"sentences":25367,"speaker":4711,"num_words":25105,"start":6863,"end":6903},[25368,25370],{"text":25369,"start":6863,"end":6869},"Ja, ja.",{"text":25371,"start":6869,"end":6903},"Nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee,",{"sentences":25373,"speaker":129,"num_words":24911,"start":6903,"end":6954},[25374],{"text":25375,"start":6903,"end":6954},"nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee, nee",{"sentences":25377,"speaker":106,"num_words":24902,"start":6956,"end":6990},[25378],{"text":25379,"start":6956,"end":6990},"und hatte ja schon gegrüßt, dass sie langsamer sein soll und so weiter.",{"sentences":25381,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":6990,"end":7003},[25382],{"text":25383,"start":6990,"end":7003},"Also sie kommt für",{"sentences":25385,"speaker":106,"num_words":25396,"start":7003,"end":7200},[25386,25388,25390,25392,25394],{"text":25387,"start":7003,"end":7011},"die Zukunft.",{"text":25389,"start":7011,"end":7021},"Das ist unfassbar.",{"text":25391,"start":7025,"end":7171},"Also das es gibt so wenige, weißt Du, man man denkt sich ja manchmal, haben wir auch in Deutschland grade durchaus Probleme und so, sondern man fragt sich so, es es würde doch ein einzelnes Statement, was es so ist, also das liest, wie die man da argumentieren, also oh Wahnsinn.",{"text":25393,"start":7175,"end":7194},"Wahnsinn, dass der mit so was durchkommt.",{"text":25395,"start":7194,"end":7200},"Das ist",65,{"sentences":25398,"speaker":4711,"num_words":24916,"start":7200,"end":7218},[25399,25401],{"text":25400,"start":7200,"end":7207},"mein Quatsch.",{"text":25402,"start":7207,"end":7218},"Das ist mein Quatsch.",{"sentences":25404,"speaker":304,"num_words":25413,"start":7218,"end":7294},[25405,25407,25408,25410,25412],{"text":25406,"start":7218,"end":7232},"Das ist schon so.",{"text":619,"start":7235,"end":7236},{"text":25409,"start":7240,"end":7249},"2 Fragen hab ich's.",{"text":25411,"start":7249,"end":7291},"Die eine weiß es noch, die andere muss ich jetzt gleich noch mal überlegen.",{"text":619,"start":7291,"end":7294},24,{"sentences":25415,"speaker":304,"num_words":25422,"start":7294,"end":7368},[25416,25418,25420],{"text":25417,"start":7294,"end":7314},"Was sagt denn was sagt denn China so dazu?",{"text":25419,"start":7314,"end":7349},"Also was sind jetzt hauptsächlich die amerikanischen Firmen, die da zustimmen?",{"text":25421,"start":7353,"end":7368},"Wie sieht's, wie steht China?",25,{"sentences":25424,"speaker":106,"num_words":25300,"start":7372,"end":7663},[25425,25427,25429,25431,25433],{"text":25426,"start":7372,"end":7455},"Die haben sich, soweit ich weiß, bis jetzt noch nicht dazu geäußert und zählen jetzt, glaub ich, auch nicht zu den demokratischen Staaten, wo man sagt, okay, die die ziehen dann direkt mit.",{"text":25428,"start":7458,"end":7528},"Ich glaube, man würde halt versuchen zu sagen, muss ich auch irgendwie zu überzeugen, aber wie das ablaufen soll oder welche Handhabe man da hat, ist natürlich schwierig.",{"text":25430,"start":7528,"end":7573},"Und klar, das ist ja natürlich auch, ne, dieser extremen Machtkampf, der jetzt im Moment da ist.",{"text":25432,"start":7573,"end":7644},"Deswegen ist ist ja auch das Schwierige, Du kannst halt nicht als Einzeldes Lab sagen, ja, wir machen's jetzt langsamer, weil dann machen's halt andere.",{"text":25434,"start":7644,"end":7663},"Sonst war das doch nämlich schon mal",{"sentences":25436,"speaker":304,"num_words":25444,"start":7663,"end":7817},[25437,25439,25440,25442],{"text":25438,"start":7663,"end":7734},"das Argument, dass irgendwie alle USA Firmen gemeint haben, wir können's nicht machen, weil dann, ja, macht halt China weiter und dann ist auch nichts gewonnen.",{"text":619,"start":7734,"end":7738},{"text":25441,"start":7738,"end":7802},"So, deswegen würd mich mehr interessiert, ob's da tolle Ambitionen und auch Gespräche gibt, die das global irgendwie versuchen zu Ende.",{"text":25443,"start":7805,"end":7817},"Aber wer soll das machen, ne?",54,{"sentences":25446,"speaker":129,"num_words":304,"start":7817,"end":7824},[25447],{"text":25448,"start":7817,"end":7824},"Wenn das",{"sentences":25450,"speaker":304,"num_words":24929,"start":7827,"end":7891},[25451,25453,25455,25456],{"text":25452,"start":7827,"end":7858},"Ja, Trump Trump nicht macht, genau, ich wollt es grad sagen.",{"text":25454,"start":7862,"end":7884},"Wer halt sone Einstellung hat, eigentlich ist nicht.",{"text":619,"start":7887,"end":7888},{"text":4445,"start":7888,"end":7891},{"sentences":25458,"speaker":129,"num_words":24934,"start":7893,"end":7903},[25459,25460],{"text":619,"start":7893,"end":7894},{"text":25461,"start":7897,"end":7903},"Ach so, okay.",{"sentences":25463,"speaker":106,"num_words":25474,"start":7906,"end":8250},[25464,25466,25468,25470,25472],{"text":25465,"start":7906,"end":7912},"Also, ja.",{"text":25467,"start":7912,"end":7944},"Am Ende das, was ich halt super oder nee, was spannend war.",{"text":25469,"start":7948,"end":8137},"Nachdem wir ja, weiß ich nicht, irgendwie so die ersten Monate des Jahres schon immer der allgemeine, dass einige meine Gefühl so war, okay, die Modelle ne, flachen sind, also oder die Weiterentwicklung der Modelle flacht ein wenig ab, ist ja schon halt interessant zu sehen, was jetzt noch mal für Sprünge in kurzer Zeit möglich sind und was vor allen Dingen bei den internen Modellen so teilweise einfach abgeht.",{"text":25471,"start":8141,"end":8195},"Wo man einfach ja auch schon wieder weiß und sieht, es wird noch einen richtig mächtigen, ne, nächste Schritte geben.",{"text":25473,"start":8198,"end":8250},"Und nicht ein, ja, vielleicht wird das noch besser, sondern ja, auf jeden Fall wird es noch Faktor Faktor x besser.",125,{"sentences":25476,"speaker":129,"num_words":25486,"start":8253,"end":8554},[25477,25479,25481,25483,25485],{"text":25478,"start":8253,"end":8367},"Ich muss da immer an diesen einen Google Next Vortrag denken, wo der Mensch von Deep Mind auch so in 'nem Nebensatz sagt, na ja, könnten euch auch Modelle mit Kontext Windows von irgendwie 2, 3, 4000000 Tokens irgendwie anbieten.",{"text":25480,"start":8370,"end":8409},"Es will aber nur grade keiner bezahlen und das könnte auch keiner wirklich nutzen, also machen wir's nicht.",{"text":25482,"start":8409,"end":8534},"Was so vor 2 Jahren irgendwie schon so voll der Indikator war für, okay, was die alle noch so im Keller liegen haben, ohne wahrscheinlich jetzt noch viel Arbeit rein investieren zu müssen, wo sie einfach jahrelang noch draus schöpfen konnten, irgendwie immer besseres Zeug anzubieten.",{"text":25484,"start":8538,"end":8550},"Will man wahrscheinlich gar nicht wissen.",{"text":8557,"start":8553,"end":8554},111,{"sentences":25488,"speaker":129,"num_words":25236,"start":8560,"end":8624},[25489],{"text":25490,"start":8560,"end":8624},"Garald, Du wolltest uns was über Amp und den Coding Agent erzählen und warum das besonders toll ist und warum das grade jetzt besonders interessant ist.",{"sentences":25492,"speaker":304,"num_words":25497,"start":8626,"end":8734},[25493,25495],{"text":25494,"start":8626,"end":8637},"Es ist grundsätzlich immer interessant.",{"text":25496,"start":8639,"end":8734},"Ich glaub, ich mach den Disclaimer am Anfang und zwar Thorsten Beil, ein Mann, den ich, ist der, wie sagt man das, der schätze, ja, ich überleg, das ist zu krass, aber",37,{"sentences":25499,"speaker":129,"num_words":25162,"start":8736,"end":8779},[25500,25502],{"text":25501,"start":8736,"end":8769},"Also er war schon mal deinen Pick of the day hier, ne?",{"text":25503,"start":8769,"end":8779},"Muss man Er",{"sentences":25505,"speaker":304,"num_words":25510,"start":8779,"end":8920},[25506,25508],{"text":25507,"start":8779,"end":8827},"war schon mal, genau, meinen Pick of the day mit seinem Newsletter, den find ich auch immer noch gut.",{"text":25509,"start":8829,"end":8920},"Und der Liebe kommt übrigens auch zu Programmiercon und wir machen so eine Art, ich weiß nicht, ob ihr das schon definiert, wie das Format ist, sone Art Live Podcast oder so was?",52,{"sentences":25512,"speaker":129,"num_words":25521,"start":8920,"end":9014},[25513,25515,25517,25519],{"text":25514,"start":8920,"end":8968},"Ja, ich hab das mal so, im in der Agenda steht das so als Fireside Chat, so.",{"text":25516,"start":8968,"end":8978},"Es ist keine Ja.",{"text":25518,"start":8981,"end":8996},"Keine Session mit Vortrag, so.",{"text":25520,"start":8996,"end":9014},"Wir quatschen mal über State of AI.",33,{"sentences":25523,"speaker":304,"num_words":25533,"start":9018,"end":9081},[25524,25525,25527,25529,25531],{"text":4445,"start":9018,"end":9019},{"text":25526,"start":9022,"end":9033},"Mal gucken, was draus wird.",{"text":25528,"start":9033,"end":9049},"Ich freu mich auf jeden Fall drauf.",{"text":25530,"start":9049,"end":9055},"Was wird.",{"text":25532,"start":9057,"end":9081},"Und Thorsten Ball ist Co Founder von Amp.",23,{"sentences":25535,"speaker":304,"num_words":149,"start":9081,"end":9123},[25536,25538,25540,25541,25543],{"text":25537,"start":9081,"end":9089},"Was ist Amp?",{"text":25539,"start":9094,"end":9103},"Kennt, kennt ihr das?",{"text":619,"start":9105,"end":9106},{"text":25542,"start":9106,"end":9115},"Brauste, ja.",{"text":25544,"start":9115,"end":9123},"Dennis, komm.",{"sentences":25546,"speaker":304,"num_words":25557,"start":9128,"end":9328},[25547,25549,25551,25553,25555],{"text":25548,"start":9128,"end":9137},"Erklärst Du mal.",{"text":25550,"start":9137,"end":9161},"Ja, da alle daraus, gleich noch besser.",{"text":25552,"start":9163,"end":9217},"Amp ist ein Coding Agent, vergleichbar würde ich sagen, mit Cloud Code oder Codex hauptsächlich in der CLI.",{"text":25554,"start":9221,"end":9269},"Und es ist eben so, dass sie aber anders als natürlich Cloud keinen eigenen, keine eigene AI anbieten.",{"text":25556,"start":9269,"end":9328},"Das heißt, man nutzt dann Cloud oder ChatGPT als AI hinter diesem Agent, aber man ist auch nicht gebunden an einen AI.",68,{"sentences":25559,"speaker":304,"num_words":25570,"start":9330,"end":9588},[25560,25562,25564,25566,25568],{"text":25561,"start":9330,"end":9407},"Und ich sag mal, was die News jetzt ist, also was sich grad geändert hat, ist, dass sie noch mal zum, ich glaub, dritten oder vierten Mal jetzt das Bezahlmodell geändert haben.",{"text":25563,"start":9409,"end":9433},"Da wurde viel ausprobiert, was ich grundsätzlich erst mal gut finde.",{"text":25565,"start":9433,"end":9465},"Also ich glaub, sie versuchen den besten Fit für die Nutzer zu finden.",{"text":25567,"start":9468,"end":9516},"Und es ging los damit, dass man einfach das bezahlt hat, was die Tokens in der API gekostet haben.",{"text":25569,"start":9518,"end":9588},"Das war aber irgendwie nicht so ganz praktikabel, weil die API Kosten ja meistens deutlich teurer sind als das, was man bekommt, wenn man eine Subscription hat.",102,{"sentences":25572,"speaker":304,"num_words":25583,"start":9590,"end":9891},[25573,25575,25577,25579,25581],{"text":25574,"start":9590,"end":9667},"Dann haben Sie, was ich auch interessant finde, eine Zeit lang versucht, über Werbung das zu finanzieren, dass es eben kostenlos war und man Werbung im Terminal gesehen hat.",{"text":25576,"start":9667,"end":9718},"Das konnte sich aber auch nicht wirklich rechnen mit denen, was die was die Tokens gekostet haben, haben sie wieder ausgebaut.",{"text":25578,"start":9721,"end":9781},"Und was sie jetzt sagen, ist, okay, wir bezahlen, wir machen das gar nicht mehr über die API Tokens, sondern ihr bringt eure Subscription nicht.",{"text":25580,"start":9781,"end":9804},"Das heißt, man bezahlt jetzt nichts mehr für Amp an sich.",{"text":25582,"start":9804,"end":9891},"Es gibt, Entschuldigung, ich hab 1 vergessen, vor den nach den Ads gab's auch noch eine Subscription, die man bezahlt hat, also 20 20 Dollar, glaub ich, war das im Monat.",117,{"sentences":25585,"speaker":304,"num_words":25596,"start":9891,"end":10144},[25586,25588,25590,25592,25594],{"text":25587,"start":9891,"end":9914},"Und dann hat man's auch über die Tokens gemacht.",{"text":25589,"start":9918,"end":9942},"Und jetzt sagen sie eben, okay, das lassen wir einfach weg.",{"text":25591,"start":9942,"end":9987},"App gibt und ihr bringt einfach eure Tokens mit oder eure Subscriptions und könnt die darin nutzen.",{"text":25593,"start":9990,"end":10092},"Und gleichzeitig, was Sie auch noch mitgebracht haben, was eher sonem Nebensatz kommt, was ich aber trotzdem sehr wichtig finde, ist, dass Sie auch versprechen, dass Sie die Daten nicht mehr oder sehr minimal verwenden, die man da reingibt.",{"text":25595,"start":10092,"end":10144},"Das war vorher nur in den Enterprise, in der Enterprise Paket, das ist jetzt auch für jeden mit drin.",95,{"sentences":25598,"speaker":304,"num_words":25223,"start":10147,"end":10369},[25599,25601,25603,25604,25606],{"text":25600,"start":10147,"end":10193},"Das heißt, ich würde sagen, dadurch wird Amp generell einfach attraktiver für fast jeder Mann und jeder Frau.",{"text":25602,"start":10193,"end":10206},"Ist das nun das richtig?",{"text":619,"start":10206,"end":10209},{"text":25605,"start":10209,"end":10256},"Alle, weil ich denke, mittlerweile hat fast jeder von uns eine Subscription und Amp ist dadurch viel, viel zugänglicher.",{"text":25607,"start":10260,"end":10369},"Und was man aber noch bezahlt bei Amp, ist sogenannte Orbs, weil das ist praktisch der Promis von Amp und warum Amp auch spannend ist gegenüber zum Beispiel Open Code oder Pi, was ja auch sind, die aber alle nur lokal laufen.",{"sentences":25609,"speaker":304,"num_words":25620,"start":10369,"end":10741},[25610,25612,25614,25616,25618],{"text":25611,"start":10369,"end":10564},"Und was der Promis von, den ich's auch sehr cool finde, ist, es gibt keinen Vendorlog in, weil wir eben nicht auf irgend eine angewiesen sind, aber man hat trotzdem alle Benefits, die man bei zum Beispiel Clayw Code hat, dass man Remote Sessions hat, dass man von überall aus immer auf die Sessions zugreifen kann, dass man auf dem Rechner, auf dem Handy, von überall auf die gleiche Session zugreifen kann.",{"text":25613,"start":10564,"end":10615},"Und die ganze Flexibilität, die wir mittlerweile haben, wenn wir mit Codex oder Cloud Code arbeiten, bietet Amp auch.",{"text":25615,"start":10618,"end":10627},"Teilweise sogar noch mehr.",{"text":25617,"start":10631,"end":10718},"Zum Beispiel gibt's sogenannte, ich glaub, Siddenz Multiplayer Session, nicht mehr unsicher grade, wo man eben auch zu zweit mit Kollegen, also zu dritt, in 1 Session arbeiten kann.",{"text":25619,"start":10720,"end":10741},"Und das find ich erst mal 'n coolen Promis.",133,{"sentences":25622,"speaker":304,"num_words":25633,"start":10745,"end":11033},[25623,25625,25627,25629,25631],{"text":25624,"start":10745,"end":10856},"Also Sie wollen die gleiche Funktionalität bieten, wie es die Frontier Kolleg Agents auch machen, nur eben ohne, dass man angewiesen ist auf ein 1, was ist sowieso generell immer für sinnvoll heißt, ja, man sieht nicht auf eine.",{"text":25626,"start":10859,"end":10915},"Das ist jetzt so wie, Du sagst, eine Gemenay war Topmodel und jetzt ist irgendwie nicht mehr relevant.",{"text":25628,"start":10918,"end":10941},"Ja, viel gesagt, ich hab irgendwann 'n Faden verloren.",{"text":25630,"start":10944,"end":10989},"Ich glaub, es wird einfach cooler dadurch, dass es for free ist, dass man's flexibel benutzen kann.",{"text":25632,"start":10989,"end":11033},"Ich find's cool, dass sie viele Versuche machen, das richtige Modell für ihr Produkt zu finden.",99,{"sentences":25635,"speaker":304,"num_words":25638,"start":11035,"end":11057},[25636],{"text":25637,"start":11035,"end":11057},"Ich hab das Gefühl, das könnte was sein, was längerfristig",10,{"sentences":25640,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":11059,"end":11064},[25641],{"text":25642,"start":11059,"end":11064},"stehen bleibt.",{"sentences":25644,"speaker":129,"num_words":25497,"start":11068,"end":11171},[25645,25646,25648,25650],{"text":619,"start":11068,"end":11069},{"text":25647,"start":11069,"end":11102},"Ich fand's auch cool, dass Du diese diese auch selber betreiben kannst.",{"text":25649,"start":11102,"end":11163},"Also wenn Du sie nicht da kaufen willst, sondern auf deiner eigenen Infrastruktur dieses ganze Zeug laufen lassen willst, fand ich Gut.",{"text":25651,"start":11166,"end":11171},"Ganz nett.",{"sentences":25653,"speaker":304,"num_words":25228,"start":11171,"end":11283},[25654,25656,25658,25660],{"text":25655,"start":11171,"end":11220},"Gut, dass Du's sagst, genau, man kann's auch lokal laufen lassen, dann verlierst Du aber manche eine Funktion.",{"text":25657,"start":11220,"end":11254},"Also Multiplayer Sessions zum Beispiel gehen dann nicht mehr und noch ein, 2 andere Dinge.",{"text":25659,"start":11254,"end":11270},"Das muss man mitbedenken, genau.",{"text":25661,"start":11273,"end":11283},"Aber sonst geht's auch.",{"sentences":25663,"speaker":106,"num_words":24902,"start":11285,"end":11322},[25664],{"text":25665,"start":11285,"end":11322},"Die Johannes ist aber grundsätzlich dann identisch unabhängig davon, welches Modell Du nutzt.",{"sentences":25667,"speaker":304,"num_words":25673,"start":11326,"end":11500},[25668,25669,25671],{"text":619,"start":11326,"end":11327},{"text":25670,"start":11331,"end":11485},"Was sie sogar haben, das find ich ganz cool, sie sagen, ich weiß nicht, wie das dann am Ende funktioniert, wenn Du nur ein 1 Subscription mitbringst, aber sie sagen oder was sie auch vorher gemacht hat, heißt, Du bachst gar kein Model aus, sondern sie wählen ja immer das beste Model für dich aus, je nachdem, was Du was Du haben möchtest.",{"text":25672,"start":11485,"end":11500},"Das fand ich auch sehr spannend.",70,{"sentences":25675,"speaker":106,"num_words":25245,"start":11503,"end":11716},[25676,25678,25680,25682],{"text":25677,"start":11503,"end":11547},"Ich frag mich nur, weil oft hört man ja auch, dass halt so die Kombination aus Model Ja.",{"text":25679,"start":11549,"end":11569},"Irgendwie, dass es die so erfolgreich dann ist.",{"text":25681,"start":11569,"end":11654},"Ja, und deswegen ist vielleicht gar nicht so einfach, es eine universelle zu schreiben, ja, damit unterschiedliche Modellen funktioniert, weil dann halt auf die ein Eigenheiten der Modelle nicht so stark eingegangen werden kann.",{"text":25683,"start":11656,"end":11716},"Aber vielleicht passen ja trotzdem auch im Hintergrund irgendwie noch Promptern oder so, je nachdem, in welches in welches Ding Du läufst.",{"sentences":25685,"speaker":304,"num_words":25044,"start":11719,"end":11927},[25686,25688,25690],{"text":25687,"start":11719,"end":11811},"Ich weiß, am Ende war es nicht so genau, aber dadurch, dass sie die Model ja auswählen für dich, würde man hoffen, dass sie dann auch das beste Model, was zu in Paris passiert ist, auswählen.",{"text":25689,"start":11816,"end":11891},"Jo, was halt verfügbar ist, wenn Du jetzt nur noch Das ist vielleicht doch 'n bisschen der Nachteil, ne, weil oft hat man ja auch eine Sub gibt's schon.",{"text":25691,"start":11894,"end":11927},"Und vorher hattest Du eben sozusagen die Berufe auf alle Models.",{"sentences":25693,"speaker":4711,"num_words":106,"start":11931,"end":11932},[25694],{"text":11934,"start":11931,"end":11932},{"sentences":25696,"speaker":304,"num_words":24929,"start":11932,"end":11994},[25697,25698,25700,25702,25704],{"text":619,"start":11932,"end":11936},{"text":25699,"start":11936,"end":11942},"Was sehen?",{"text":25701,"start":11942,"end":11955},"Ich muss es mal testen.",{"text":25703,"start":11955,"end":11981},"Ich stell mir nie, ich hab's noch nie benutzt.",{"text":25705,"start":11984,"end":11994},"Ich werd's mal testen.",{"sentences":25707,"speaker":129,"num_words":25717,"start":11996,"end":12233},[25708,25710,25712,25714,25716],{"text":25709,"start":11996,"end":12069},"Ich muss sagen, ich war ewig lang auf der bei denen, weil sie ja son bisschen wegen Überfüllung geschlossen waren eine Zeit lang, als sie so sehr am Kommen waren.",{"text":25711,"start":12073,"end":12103},"Und jetzt, wo sie diesen Fried hier haben, versuche ich's vielleicht noch mal.",{"text":25713,"start":12103,"end":12130},"Weil ich find's im Prinzip auch ganz cool so, ne.",{"text":25715,"start":12130,"end":12229},"Also vielleicht kommen wir jetzt endlich in diese Phase, wo so Harneße ähnlich wie so IDIs halt son bisschen freier auswählbar sind, ja, und Du nicht nur an die ein oder 2 großen irgendwie halt gebunden bist, so.",{"text":12235,"start":12232,"end":12233},92,{"sentences":25719,"speaker":304,"num_words":25729,"start":12237,"end":12468},[25720,25722,25724,25725,25727],{"text":25721,"start":12237,"end":12343},"Es ist auf jeden Fall der richtige Bett, ne, weil so was wie Open Code, ich weiß nicht, ob die sowas mittlerweile auch anbieten, aber so Remo Sessions und so, das ist schon, weiß jetzt Zellen mittlerweile bei mir, also.",{"text":25723,"start":12347,"end":12419},"Ja, ich weiß auch gar nicht, gibt es, Cloudcode ist ja auch mittlerweile als eine richtig coole UI verfügbar, wo der Browser und alles Mögliche drin ist.",{"text":619,"start":12419,"end":12422},{"text":25726,"start":12425,"end":12447},"Gibt es das auch schon so Open Source mäßig?",{"text":25728,"start":12451,"end":12468},"Also nichts an einen eine AI Zukunft?",84,{"sentences":25731,"speaker":304,"num_words":106,"start":12473,"end":12474},[25732],{"text":12475,"start":12473,"end":12474},{"sentences":25734,"speaker":129,"num_words":304,"start":12477,"end":12481},[25735],{"text":25736,"start":12477,"end":12481},"Nee, ich",{"sentences":25738,"speaker":106,"num_words":25749,"start":12481,"end":12646},[25739,25741,25743,25745,25747],{"text":25740,"start":12481,"end":12491},"überleg grad, welche Funktionalitäten.",{"text":25742,"start":12494,"end":12547},"Also grundsätzlich, so Interface und unterschiedliche Optionen und so was, ja, und auch Browser, User, mein ich.",{"text":25744,"start":12551,"end":12554},"So Sachen.",{"text":25746,"start":12556,"end":12608},"Und andererseits, ja, irgendwie entwickelt sich das trotzdem gefühlt immer so auch, also auch die großen beiden immer weiter, ne.",{"text":25748,"start":12608,"end":12646},"Und irgendwie ganz cool, dass er daade Features ist, was wir da her.",56,{"sentences":25751,"speaker":106,"num_words":25361,"start":12646,"end":12705},[25752],{"text":25753,"start":12646,"end":12705},"Ist wahrscheinlich gar nicht so einfach, da immer hinterher zu sein oder dann das Neue zu finden, was man das spannender ist.",{"sentences":25755,"speaker":129,"num_words":25766,"start":12707,"end":12978},[25756,25758,25760,25762,25764],{"text":25757,"start":12707,"end":12763},"Aber trotzdem ist es ja schon so, dass wir grade bei Codecs und Cloud Code irgendwie immer sehen, dass sie einander hinterherrennen, ne?",{"text":25759,"start":12763,"end":12830},"Also irgendjemand hatte so den Toilettenmodus zuerst, wie der bei uns immer hieß und dann kam es halt direkt 2 Wochen später so auch bei den anderen.",{"text":25761,"start":12834,"end":12957},"Also es scheint ja gar nicht so sehr das Problem zu sein, diese Features zu bauen, weil wenn sie dann benötigt werden, kommen sie irgendwie recht schnell, sondern es scheint eher noch so das Ding zu sein, dass sie halt alle grade irgendwie am Überlegen sind so, was wird da halt irgendwie wirklich gebraucht?",{"text":25763,"start":12957,"end":12969},"Was setzt sich durch?",{"text":25765,"start":12969,"end":12978},"Was ist irgendwie relevant?",112,{"sentences":25768,"speaker":106,"num_words":25274,"start":12981,"end":13219},[25769,25771,25773,25775],{"text":25770,"start":12981,"end":13038},"Ja, und gleichzeitig hängt's ja auch irgendwie damit zusammen und deswegen find ich diese Entkoppelung so spannend, weil, ne, was halt die Modelle können.",{"text":25772,"start":13038,"end":13072},"Also ich mein, damit kommt halt halt halt 'n anderes Feature Set.",{"text":25774,"start":13072,"end":13146},"So, wenn jetzt irgendwie Astra halt supergut auch in Computer Use ist, dann brauchst Du halt irgendwie das Interface dafür, das nutzen zu können oder Browseruser oder so.",{"text":25776,"start":13146,"end":13219},"Ja, das hab ich irgendwie in der Vergangenheit superwenig benutzt jetzt die letzten Tage immer mal wieder, weil's irgendwie cool war, dass das einfach so funktioniert und so gut funktioniert.",{"sentences":25778,"speaker":304,"num_words":25789,"start":13222,"end":13414},[25779,25781,25783,25785,25787],{"text":25780,"start":13222,"end":13285},"Aber ich fänd's ich fänd's natürlich cool, wenn es nicht immer, also mich nervt's schon, dass ich so 2 Apps benutzen muss oder grade Ja.",{"text":25782,"start":13288,"end":13294},"Wirklich mache.",{"text":25784,"start":13294,"end":13348},"Also wenn's eine gibt, wo ich mich dann auch irgendwie zu Recht finde und auskenne und die dann einfach alles kann.",{"text":25786,"start":13350,"end":13403},"Weil weißt Du, Du könntest doch eine App bauen, die sagt, Du kannst Computer use, aber dann musst Du halt auch eine Ja.",{"text":25788,"start":13407,"end":13414},"Subution gekriegt.",73,{"sentences":25791,"speaker":304,"num_words":304,"start":13414,"end":13420},[25792],{"text":25793,"start":13414,"end":13420},"Ja, klar.",{"sentences":25795,"speaker":106,"num_words":25802,"start":13423,"end":13496},[25796,25798,25800],{"text":25797,"start":13423,"end":13438},"Das ist halt, das versteh ich.",{"text":25799,"start":13441,"end":13485},"Und ich, mein großes Problem ist, dass ich wirklich weiß, wo ich was gemacht habe oder Ja, genau.",{"text":25801,"start":13487,"end":13496},"Die alten Sachen dazu.",28,{"sentences":25804,"speaker":304,"num_words":24902,"start":13499,"end":13534},[25805,25807,25809],{"text":25806,"start":13499,"end":13504},"Ja, genau.",{"text":25808,"start":13506,"end":13511},"Das ist richtig.",{"text":25810,"start":13511,"end":13534},"Aber deswegen eine Anlaufstelle, wenn Du selber Weltwäsche.",{"sentences":25812,"speaker":106,"num_words":25497,"start":13538,"end":13637},[25813,25814,25816],{"text":619,"start":13538,"end":13539},{"text":25815,"start":13543,"end":13576},"Und dann wirst Du aber immer auch auch da vermutlich irgendwie 'n bisschen hinterherlaufen.",{"text":25817,"start":13580,"end":13637},"Dann kannst Du halt neue Sachen machen und vielleicht auch was Neues, was die anderen dann nachbauen, aber Ja, weil immer einen",{"sentences":25819,"speaker":304,"num_words":24924,"start":13640,"end":13678},[25820],{"text":25821,"start":13640,"end":13678},"Wenn Du, wie Du sagst, es 2 Wochen sind, will ich jetzt noch 'n bisschen schlimm.",{"sentences":25823,"speaker":106,"num_words":25831,"start":13678,"end":13708},[25824,25826,25828,25829,25830],{"text":25825,"start":13678,"end":13689},"Ist ja cool.",{"text":25827,"start":13689,"end":13698},"Bis heute.",{"text":619,"start":13701,"end":13702},{"text":619,"start":13702,"end":13705},{"text":4445,"start":13707,"end":13708},8,{"sentences":25833,"speaker":129,"num_words":25843,"start":13712,"end":13868},[25834,25835,25837,25839,25841],{"text":13716,"start":13712,"end":13713},{"text":25836,"start":13718,"end":13768},"Wir haben noch Shopify auf der Liste und zwar ist Shopify gleich mit 2 Themen bei uns in dieser Woche aufgeschlagen.",{"text":25838,"start":13768,"end":13790},"Das eine können wir in 30 Sekunden abfrühstücken.",{"text":25840,"start":13794,"end":13805},"Shopify hat Tellwind übernommen.",{"text":25842,"start":13808,"end":13868},"Wir hatten Tellwind vor ein paar Wochen, Monaten, glaub ich, schon mal bei uns in den News, weil sie viele ihrer Mitarbeiterinnen entlassen mussten.",58,{"sentences":25845,"speaker":129,"num_words":25044,"start":13871,"end":14069},[25846,25848,25850,25852,25854],{"text":25847,"start":13871,"end":13912},"Das Problem hat sich dann damit erledigt, also die leben jetzt auf auf Shopify Kosten weiter.",{"text":25849,"start":13914,"end":13970},"Ich muss ehrlicherweise sagen, ja cool, aber so dass Salewind so essenziell für Shopify ist, hätt ich jetzt auch nicht gedacht.",{"text":25851,"start":13970,"end":13999},"Ich hab auch noch mal geschaut, wo sie's überall so benutzen.",{"text":25853,"start":13999,"end":14055},"Ich glaub immer noch nicht, dass es so essenziell für sie ist, aber hey, Open Source Projekt, was durchfinanziert wird, kann man sich freuen.",{"text":25855,"start":14059,"end":14069},"Cool, Thema abgehakt weiter.",{"sentences":25857,"speaker":304,"num_words":25089,"start":14069,"end":14116},[25858,25860],{"text":25859,"start":14069,"end":14112},"Aber glaubst Du das glaubst Du nicht, dass sie's ja haut sich machen, die Leute einzukaufen?",{"text":12108,"start":14115,"end":14116},{"sentences":25862,"speaker":129,"num_words":25869,"start":14118,"end":14190},[25863,25865,25867],{"text":25864,"start":14118,"end":14144},"Ja, wahrscheinlich ist das auch wieder son Equiire Thema, ne.",{"text":25866,"start":14144,"end":14183},"Da ist schon irgendwie viel Talent in der Bude, das willst Du irgendwie mitnehmen und so.",{"text":25868,"start":14183,"end":14190},"Waren das damit?",29,{"sentences":25871,"speaker":106,"num_words":25638,"start":14190,"end":14223},[25872,25874,25876],{"text":25873,"start":14190,"end":14210},"Viele Es waren ja 4 Leute.",{"text":25875,"start":14213,"end":14219},"Ist doch egal.",{"text":838,"start":14219,"end":14223},{"sentences":25878,"speaker":129,"num_words":25883,"start":14223,"end":14248},[25879,25881],{"text":25880,"start":14223,"end":14239},"wenn's in 4 Richtigen sind?",{"text":25882,"start":14243,"end":14248},"Ja, also.",7,{"sentences":25885,"speaker":106,"num_words":4711,"start":14251,"end":14257},[25886,25887],{"text":11934,"start":14251,"end":14252},{"text":25888,"start":14252,"end":14257},"Ist ja",{"sentences":25890,"speaker":129,"num_words":25557,"start":14257,"end":14446},[25891,25893,25895,25897,25899],{"text":25892,"start":14257,"end":14298},"so und das es ist stand ja auch nirgendwo, für wie viel sie's gekauft haben, ne.",{"text":25894,"start":14298,"end":14387},"Wenn wenn das jetzt relativ kleine Beträge waren oder so und die haben son irgendwie Deal drin, dass die Leute nebenbei an Tablet weiterarbeiten können und dann für Shopify Who cares, so.",{"text":25896,"start":14387,"end":14391},"Ja, läuft.",{"text":25898,"start":14391,"end":14406},"Irgendwie, projekts durchfinanziert, passt.",{"text":25900,"start":14408,"end":14446},"Der viel größere Punkt ist aber, dass Shopify sich von React Native verabschiedet hat.",{"sentences":25902,"speaker":129,"num_words":25638,"start":14446,"end":14472},[25903],{"text":25904,"start":14446,"end":14472},"Und das, obwohl Shopify in den letzten 5, 6 Jahren",{"sentences":25906,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":14474,"end":14479},[25907],{"text":25908,"start":14474,"end":14479},"Ja, perfekt.",{"sentences":25910,"speaker":129,"num_words":25921,"start":14483,"end":14829},[25911,25913,25915,25917,25919],{"text":25912,"start":14483,"end":14510},"So 1 der allergrößten Champions von React Native eigentlich war, ja?",{"text":25914,"start":14510,"end":14533},"Also alle ihre Apps mit React Native gebaut.",{"text":25916,"start":14533,"end":14625},"Ich weiß noch damals in meinem Onboarding bei Shopify, wir mussten jeder auch sone eigene React Native App bauen und im Shopify Stack komplett React Native 'n Feature testweise mal so implementieren und so was.",{"text":25918,"start":14628,"end":14734},"Das war schon, da haben sie superviel Wert drauf gelegt, dass sie so diese Technik haben, mit der Du halt irgendwie vom Backend zu Frontend in den Mobile Apps irgendwie halt alles so so tun kannst und das ist jetzt vorbei.",{"text":25920,"start":14738,"end":14829},"So, weil Sie gesagt haben, die das grundlegende Kalkül hinter der Entscheidung zu Reagnactive hat sich verändert, weil natürlich der eine große Punkt, also das ist jetzt auch kein kein Shopify eigenes Ding, ne.",129,{"sentences":25923,"speaker":129,"num_words":25933,"start":14829,"end":15197},[25924,25926,25927,25929,25931],{"text":25925,"start":14829,"end":14942},"Das hat ja jeder, ich mein, wir haben uns das ja damals bei Flatter auch ähnlich überlegt, ja, was ist was sind halt die Kosten, wenn Du 2 dedizierte Apps entwickeln musst in Swift und Cootlin versus eine geteilte Code Base, ja.",{"text":619,"start":14944,"end":14945},{"text":25928,"start":14948,"end":14955},"Lohnt sich das?",{"text":25930,"start":14955,"end":15102},"Also der Jobchef damals sagt so nein, das lohnt sich bei uns nicht, alles doppelte Aufwand, ja, ja, ja, ja, wir müssen verschiedenes Talent vorhalten und so weiter und so fort und wir bauen einfach alles nur noch einmal in type Skript und das kann irgendwie jeder verstehen und deshalb nehmen wir React Native.",{"text":25932,"start":15107,"end":15197},"So, nachdem jetzt aber Code schreiben ja quasi umsonst geworden ist durch Coding Agents, haben wir gesagt, na ja, dieses Feature Doppelentwickeln, das ist ja gar nicht mehr so teuer, wie es vielleicht einmal war.",135,{"sentences":25935,"speaker":129,"num_words":25486,"start":15197,"end":15495},[25936,25938,25940,25942,25944],{"text":25937,"start":15197,"end":15339},"Weil wir können das jetzt in Swift oder in Gotland bauen, dann geben wir das dem Agent hin und der kann das quasi in dem jener jeweils anderen dann nach implementieren sozusagen, sodass dieses Kostenargument halt weggefallen ist, aber trotzdem der Nachteil oder die Nachteil, die React Native mitbringt, ja immer noch existent sind, ne.",{"text":25939,"start":15339,"end":15393},"Also auch das kein Shopify Uniqueest Ding und auch kein, das gibt's bei anderen Frameworks und Sprachen auch, ne.",{"text":25941,"start":15393,"end":15430},"Du bist immer eine Abstraktionsstufe weiter weg von dem Betriebssystem, auf denen Du arbeitest.",{"text":25943,"start":15430,"end":15457},"Du rennst deinen Frameworks und Librys son bisschen hinterher.",{"text":25945,"start":15457,"end":15495},"Du bist auf mehr Third Party Dependencies angewiesen und so weiter und so fort.",{"sentences":25947,"speaker":129,"num_words":25958,"start":15495,"end":15785},[25948,25950,25952,25954,25956],{"text":25949,"start":15495,"end":15518},"Müssen diese ganze Diskussion, glaub ich, nicht komplett aufmachen.",{"text":25951,"start":15521,"end":15556},"Aber ich sag halt, die die Balance in dieser Abwägung hat sich halt verschoben.",{"text":25953,"start":15559,"end":15610},"Und sie verabschieden sich jetzt von React Native, gehen wieder hin zu Android alternativen Android und iOS Apps.",{"text":25955,"start":15612,"end":15654},"Und ja, sie waren in dem Blogpost, wir verlinken wir ja auch noch mal sehr ehrlich.",{"text":25957,"start":15654,"end":15785},"Haben wir auch gesagt, ne, wir machen diese Migration nicht den Migrationswillen, sondern wir wollen uns schon sehr hart daran messen lassen, dass wir danach dann auch schneller werden, neue Features, neue Appversionen, mehrere Apps vielleicht gleichzeitig irgendwie alles rauszubringen, zu zu können und so weiter und so fort.",106,{"sentences":25960,"speaker":129,"num_words":1090,"start":15787,"end":16018},[25961,25962,25964,25965,25967],{"text":619,"start":15787,"end":15788},{"text":25963,"start":15792,"end":15871},"Und vielleicht ein anderer, wo wir noch 'n bisschen weiter reinsteigen, ist, Sie haben in dem selben Blogpost auch gesagt so, hey, wir brauchen deshalb übrigens noch mehr Engineering Leute.",{"text":630,"start":15871,"end":15873},{"text":25966,"start":15873,"end":15927},"Ne, also dieses dieses ganze Thema mit, na ja, AI schreibt irgendwie immer mehr Code und deshalb brauchen wir immer weniger Developer.",{"text":25968,"start":15927,"end":16018},"Das also ich weiß nicht, ich bin da skeptisch, aber es scheint auch hier irgendwie nicht aufzugehen, sondern sagen halt, wir bauen hier gerade unser eigenes Tooling, halt diese Toolchain jetzt irgendwie aufbauen zu können.",{"sentences":25970,"speaker":129,"num_words":25975,"start":16018,"end":16112},[25971,25973],{"text":25972,"start":16018,"end":16082},"Dafür brauchen wir Leute, ne, sie brauchen jetzt vielleicht weniger nur Mobile Engineers, sondern auch Plattform Leute und Ops Leute und so was alles.",{"text":25974,"start":16085,"end":16112},"Aber man braucht auf alle Fälle immerhin immer weiter auch Entwicklerin.",35,{"sentences":25977,"speaker":304,"num_words":25105,"start":16115,"end":16152},[25978,25980],{"text":25979,"start":16115,"end":16143},"Aber haben Sie gesagt, ob Sie auf Junior oder läuft's nennen?",{"text":25981,"start":16146,"end":16152},"Stand da was?",{"sentences":25983,"speaker":129,"num_words":25994,"start":16154,"end":16454},[25984,25986,25988,25990,25992],{"text":25985,"start":16154,"end":16166},"Das stand da nicht explizit.",{"text":25987,"start":16166,"end":16222},"Es ging eher so die Fachbereiche, die Sie da dann suchen, weil Sie jetzt diese Toodule eben aufbauen wollen für.",{"text":25989,"start":16226,"end":16299},"Ein anderer interessanter Aspekt war, dass Sie son bisschen darüber gesprochen haben, wie der Entscheidungsprozess war zwischen, na ja, wir haben ja schon diese riesen Codebase, ne.",{"text":25991,"start":16299,"end":16386},"Shopify hat mehrere sehr große Apps, die auch bei den Emergenes, die Shopify Shops betreiben, ein sehr kritischer Teil der Infrastruktur sind und die natürlich zu replacen nicht trivial ist, so.",{"text":25993,"start":16386,"end":16454},"Ja, und da war die Überlegung, okay, machen wir das in sonem Hauruck Verfahren und schreiben die einmal komplett neu, releasen die neu und und fertig?",109,{"sentences":25996,"speaker":129,"num_words":26001,"start":16457,"end":16582},[25997,25999],{"text":25998,"start":16457,"end":16561},"Oder machen wir das in sonem schleichenden Prozess, wo wir quasi die bestehende App nehmen und immer mehr Teile, die jetzt gerade React Native sind, ersetzen durch wirklich native Teile der App, bis halt die ganze App so einmal quasi ausgetauscht ist.",{"text":26000,"start":16563,"end":16582},"Was glaubt ihr, wie haben sie sich entschieden?",50,{"sentences":26003,"speaker":4711,"num_words":106,"start":16585,"end":16586},[26004],{"text":16588,"start":16585,"end":16586},{"sentences":26006,"speaker":304,"num_words":24916,"start":16590,"end":16604},[26007],{"text":26008,"start":16590,"end":16604},"Gar nicht, was hast Du gesagt?",{"sentences":26010,"speaker":129,"num_words":304,"start":16604,"end":16610},[26011],{"text":26012,"start":16604,"end":16610},"Gar nicht.",{"sentences":26014,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":16612,"end":16624},[26015,26017],{"text":26016,"start":16612,"end":16615},"Gar nicht?",{"text":26018,"start":16619,"end":16624},"Weiß nicht.",{"sentences":26020,"speaker":129,"num_words":24902,"start":16627,"end":16664},[26021,26023],{"text":26022,"start":16627,"end":16641},"Hau Hau Hauruck, natürlich.",{"text":26024,"start":16641,"end":16664},"Sie sie machen ja die Dennis Becker Methode, ja?",{"sentences":26026,"speaker":304,"num_words":304,"start":16666,"end":16670},[26027],{"text":26028,"start":16666,"end":16670},"Ja, wo?",{"sentences":26030,"speaker":129,"num_words":26041,"start":16674,"end":16947},[26031,26033,26035,26037,26039],{"text":26032,"start":16674,"end":16740},"Und haben gesagt, na ja, sie haben hier so son Prototyp gebaut und quasi diesen ganzen Workflow, den sie sich da so ausgedacht haben, einmal testen zu können.",{"text":26034,"start":16740,"end":16821},"Und der war so vielversprechend, dass sie jetzt gesagt haben, na ja, der Management- und Infrastruktur Overhead, der mit soner teilweisen Migration kommt, ist ja auch nicht zu vernachlässigen, ja.",{"text":26036,"start":16823,"end":16871},"Und der Prototyp ist eben so vielversprechend, dass sie gesagt haben, nee, wir machen hier Greenfield, die ganze App einmal neu.",{"text":26038,"start":16871,"end":16919},"Sie haben natürlich den Vorteil, dass sie für die bestehenden Apps eine massive Testcovery Schalter auch haben, ja.",{"text":26040,"start":16919,"end":16947},"Das ist supergut dokumentiert, das ist, UI ist supergut beschrieben.",107,{"sentences":26043,"speaker":129,"num_words":26054,"start":16947,"end":17408},[26044,26046,26048,26050,26052],{"text":26045,"start":16947,"end":17005},"Also Sie bauen ja nicht quasi eine komplett neue App von 0 auf, sondern Sie können ja sehr gut die bestehende App als Referenzmodell dafür nutzen.",{"text":26047,"start":17005,"end":17119},"Sie beschreiben den Blogpost, erkennen wir verlinken das hier noch mal, auch wie Sie quasi die Specs und die Checkpoints quasi aus der bestehenden App abgeleitet haben, gegen die Sie dann jetzt quasi so lange mit AI entwickeln, bis da quasi Feature Parity erreicht ist.",{"text":26049,"start":17121,"end":17173},"Aber am Ende soll's halt doch darum gehen, so von jetzt auf gleich die eine App durch die andere zu ersetzen.",{"text":26051,"start":17176,"end":17297},"Erst, ja, wir sprechen noch son bisschen darüber, wie sie das architektonisch son bisschen machen, wie ihr Workflow aussieht, diese diese Checkpoints eben zu erstellen, die die das das UI von der bestehenden App quasi abzuleiten, maschinenlesbar zu machen und dann quasi auf Native zu parsen.",{"text":26053,"start":17301,"end":17408},"Sie sprechen auch son bisschen darüber, was Sie an Anstrengungen unternehmen, mehr Businesslogik von UI Logik zu trennen, weil das Problem ja immer noch ist, dass LLMs nicht gut und oder schnell darin sind, insbesondere Mobile Simulator zu bedienen, so.",178,{"sentences":26056,"speaker":129,"num_words":26066,"start":17408,"end":17645},[26057,26059,26060,26062,26064],{"text":26058,"start":17408,"end":17515},"Und je mehr von der Logik quasi vom UI entkoppelt ist, desto mehr von der Logik wird quasi Headless ausführbar, testbar, evaluierbar so, ja, dass sich den Simulator für alles irgendwie anschmeißen müssen und dementsprechend der Feedback Loop deutlich schneller laufen kann.",{"text":619,"start":17517,"end":17518},{"text":26061,"start":17522,"end":17536},"Kann man sich das mal durchlesen?",{"text":26063,"start":17536,"end":17589},"Superinteressant sind so auf 2, 3 Blogposts alles verteilt, die verlinken sich aber gegenseitig, kann man mal reinschauen.",{"text":26065,"start":17592,"end":17645},"Sie sprechen auch darüber, dass 1 der großen Konzerns going forward dann natürlich ist, die die Feature Parity halt sicherzustellen, ja?",88,{"sentences":26068,"speaker":129,"num_words":25994,"start":17648,"end":17942},[26069,26071,26073,26075,26077],{"text":26070,"start":17648,"end":17741},"Das, was dir quasi bei React Native geschenkt wird, so, weil Du hast eine Code Base und die stellt sicher, dass sowohl deine Android als auch deine iOS App irgendwie gleich funktionieren, insofern Du sie dann zeitgleich releast.",{"text":26072,"start":17745,"end":17782},"Wie machst Du das jetzt, wenn die Codebase halt wirklich wieder getrennt ist, so, ja?",{"text":26074,"start":17785,"end":17799},"Auch 'n ganz spannender Teil davon.",{"text":26076,"start":17803,"end":17933},"Ja, ist 'n insgesamt cooler Read, kann man sich mal kann man sich mal reinziehen Jetzt würd mich natürlich noch so euer Take interessieren so, diese ganzen, weil wir sind ja hier auch Slapper Freunde, diese ganze Diskussion so diese Unifying Framework so, braucht man das noch?",{"text":26078,"start":17933,"end":17942},"Kann das weg?",{"sentences":26080,"speaker":129,"num_words":25067,"start":17942,"end":17965},[26081,26083],{"text":26082,"start":17942,"end":17955},"Ist das jetzt alles überflüssig?",{"text":26084,"start":17958,"end":17965},"Was was glaubt ihr?",{"sentences":26086,"speaker":304,"num_words":25114,"start":17968,"end":18117},[26087,26089,26091,26093],{"text":26088,"start":17968,"end":17979},"Also, vielleicht sind ganz überflüssig.",{"text":26090,"start":17983,"end":18037},"Ich sag mal, für simple Apps ist es wahrscheinlich immer noch sinnvoll, wegnet zu nutzen, weil Du auch trotzdem nur einen Code schreiben hast.",{"text":26092,"start":18037,"end":18074},"Ganz, ganz kostenlos ist ja nett, So, man bezahlt ja schon auch für die Agents.",{"text":26094,"start":18078,"end":18117},"Deswegen, ich sag mal, es gibt bestimmt noch Use Cases, die werden deutlich deutlich weniger werden.",{"sentences":26096,"speaker":129,"num_words":149,"start":18119,"end":18150},[26097],{"text":26098,"start":18119,"end":18150},"Kleine Randnotiz, ist unsere Programmiercon App nicht auch in React Native gebaut?",{"sentences":26100,"speaker":304,"num_words":26109,"start":18153,"end":18303},[26101,26103,26104,26106,26107],{"text":26102,"start":18153,"end":18203},"Ja, aber Keine Rat und Clemens hab schon zu Dennis gesagt, ja, werfen wir weg und bauen uns neu.",{"text":630,"start":18203,"end":18206},{"text":26105,"start":18208,"end":18227},"Weil Schau ich schau ich meinen Ansatz.",{"text":25806,"start":18227,"end":18232},{"text":26108,"start":18234,"end":18303},"Ich würd ich will die nicht noch, ich will, also, ich will da nicht noch mal dran was machen, weil das war schon war schon nervig mit Flatnetive.",57,{"sentences":26111,"speaker":129,"num_words":24929,"start":18307,"end":18363},[26112,26113,26115,26117],{"text":619,"start":18307,"end":18308},{"text":26114,"start":18308,"end":18318},"Dennis, was hast Du?",{"text":26116,"start":18321,"end":18330},"Flatter kann das weg?",{"text":26118,"start":18330,"end":18363},"Können wir die ganzen Flatterleute hier bei uns, können wir die Also",{"sentences":26120,"speaker":106,"num_words":26131,"start":18363,"end":18619},[26121,26123,26125,26127,26129],{"text":26122,"start":18363,"end":18390},"erst mal Reagnaive kann wahrscheinlich weg, wenn man Flatter hat.",{"text":26124,"start":18390,"end":18425},"Und Flatter ist, glaub ich, immer noch für einige Use Cases cool, so.",{"text":26126,"start":18425,"end":18488},"Also das Ding ist halt, weißt Du, Shopify ist halt groß genug und sie reden ja auch erst von 'ner Pipeline und so was, so.",{"text":26128,"start":18488,"end":18557},"Du musst halt viel aufsetzen, Du musst diese ganzen Tests und Du musst, ne, Du musst ja irgendwas Automatisiertes haben, damit das nicht dieser Mehraufwand wird, so.",{"text":26130,"start":18557,"end":18619},"Und ich sehe grundsätzlich den Case, dass AI supergut halt von 1 Plattform auf die andere das besetzen kann und von daher versteh ich das schon.",101,{"sentences":26133,"speaker":106,"num_words":25869,"start":18619,"end":18690},[26134,26136],{"text":26135,"start":18619,"end":18682},"Und trotzdem brauchst Du natürlich irgendwie Pipelines, die das Ganze testen können, die das automatisiert irgendwie machen, die das, ne, wirklich nicht diese Mehraufwände zu haben.",{"text":26137,"start":18684,"end":18690},"Und Aber das",{"sentences":26139,"speaker":129,"num_words":25510,"start":18690,"end":18827},[26140,26142],{"text":26141,"start":18690,"end":18740},"ist vielleicht ja auch nur 'n Problem, weil sie die Ersten sind so jetzt, ne, die halt irgendwie sone Migration anstoßen.",{"text":26143,"start":18740,"end":18827},"Ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass es da vielleicht in Zukunft auch viel Open Source Lösungen gibt im Sinne von Library Toolchains, sicherzustellen, dass so deine Code Bases irgendwie featurparitär sind?",{"sentences":26145,"speaker":106,"num_words":25028,"start":18829,"end":18937},[26146,26148,26150],{"text":26147,"start":18829,"end":18838},"Ja, weiß ich nicht.",{"text":26149,"start":18840,"end":18932},"Ehrlich gesagt, also wär 'n spannender Use Case für wer sollte so was noch Open Source machen, Wenn Du das irgendwie deinem eigenen Case einfach nur machst mit der AI und dann irgendwie 4 Rahmenbedingungen öfters.",{"text":1541,"start":18936,"end":18937},{"sentences":26152,"speaker":129,"num_words":106,"start":18939,"end":18940},[26153],{"text":727,"start":18939,"end":18940},{"sentences":26155,"speaker":304,"num_words":304,"start":18944,"end":18949},[26156],{"text":26157,"start":18944,"end":18949},"Ja, was?",{"sentences":26159,"speaker":106,"num_words":25413,"start":18949,"end":19011},[26160,26162,26164],{"text":26161,"start":18949,"end":18965},"Der Punkt hab ich vergessen, glaub ich.",{"text":26163,"start":18965,"end":19001},"Ist 'n anderer Punkt, den ich eben angerufen habe, wo ich ja gesagt hab.",{"text":26165,"start":19001,"end":19011},"Ist 'n schönes.",{"sentences":26167,"speaker":129,"num_words":25105,"start":19015,"end":19052},[26168,26169],{"text":4445,"start":19015,"end":19016},{"text":26170,"start":19019,"end":19052},"Alright, dann ist das Flatter wohl doch noch nicht so tot wie gedacht.",{"sentences":26172,"speaker":106,"num_words":25114,"start":19054,"end":19209},[26173,26175,26177,26179],{"text":26174,"start":19054,"end":19060},"Ach ja, doch.",{"text":26176,"start":19062,"end":19066},"Ah, doch.",{"text":26178,"start":19068,"end":19105},"Ich hatte ja ich hatte das, ich wollte ja, Saft, wer und dann Flatter.",{"text":26180,"start":19109,"end":19209},"Ich mein, was wo Du noch gar nicht drauf eingegangen bist, ist ja son bisschen die Fragestellung, also neben dem, das waren jetzt alles so technische Aspekte, sehen Sie auch, haben Sie irgendwas dafür, was die Qualität der App angeht, gesagt?",{"sentences":26182,"speaker":129,"num_words":26109,"start":19212,"end":19370},[26183,26185],{"text":26184,"start":19212,"end":19341},"Ja, also Sie haben diesen diesen Prototyp verglichen mit Ihrer Bestandsapp und halt darüber gesprochen, ne, wie sich die Binary Größe verbessert hat, wie sich die Start up Zeit verbessert hat, wie die Crashrate runtergegangen ist, weil halt einfach, ne, es sind weniger Layer irgendwie involviert.",{"text":26186,"start":19341,"end":19370},"Das wird halt einfach architektonisch simpler so am Ende des Tages.",{"sentences":26188,"speaker":106,"num_words":26197,"start":19370,"end":19581},[26189,26191,26193,26195],{"text":26190,"start":19370,"end":19448},"Ja, also das wär ja doch, das würde ich auch sagen so, die App am Ende ist wahrscheinlich geiler, also das war immer schon so, sie ist geiler, wenn sie nativ ist.",{"text":26192,"start":19448,"end":19522},"Und auch wenn sich diese GAP irgendwie immer weiter geschlossen hat, konnte sie's am Ende immer noch merken und spüren und und merken, während die App für die Plattform entwickelt wurde.",{"text":26194,"start":19525,"end":19571},"Und von daher find ich es eher gut, diese Entscheidung da auf Qualität und eine geile App zu setzen.",{"text":26196,"start":19571,"end":19581},"Und auch da muss",86,{"sentences":26199,"speaker":129,"num_words":25245,"start":19581,"end":19777},[26200,26202],{"text":26201,"start":19581,"end":19646},"man wahrscheinlich sagen, dass Shopify ja, also wenn es jemand gibt, der gute Apps bauen kann, so außerhalb von Facebook, dann ist es wahrscheinlich Shopify so, ja.",{"text":26203,"start":19648,"end":19777},"Und wenn selbst bei denen quasi der Sprung zu Native noch mal so viel besser irgendwie ist, dann ist das ja für die meisten anderen da draußen, die sich nicht erlauben können, so viel Optimierung in React Native zu stecken, ist ja wahrscheinlich der Sprung eher noch größer als als jetzt hier in dem Fall.",{"sentences":26205,"speaker":304,"num_words":25883,"start":19777,"end":19797},[26206],{"text":26207,"start":19777,"end":19797},"Komm, wir verabschieden uns von dem Flattervogel.",{"sentences":26209,"speaker":106,"num_words":24934,"start":19801,"end":19811},[26210,26211],{"text":4445,"start":19801,"end":19802},{"text":26212,"start":19806,"end":19811},"Von dem auch?",{"sentences":26214,"speaker":304,"num_words":304,"start":19811,"end":19818},[26215,26216],{"text":619,"start":19811,"end":19814},{"text":619,"start":19817,"end":19818},{"sentences":26218,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":19821,"end":19826},[26219],{"text":26220,"start":19821,"end":19826},"Weißt Du,",{"sentences":26222,"speaker":129,"num_words":304,"start":19826,"end":19833},[26223],{"text":26224,"start":19826,"end":19833},"wie heißt?",{"sentences":26226,"speaker":4711,"num_words":106,"start":19836,"end":19837},[26227],{"text":3361,"start":19836,"end":19837},{"sentences":26229,"speaker":304,"num_words":24916,"start":19841,"end":19857},[26230,26232],{"text":26231,"start":19841,"end":19847},"Danke dafür.",{"text":26233,"start":19850,"end":19857},"Das war's mit Flatter.",{"sentences":26235,"speaker":129,"num_words":25533,"start":19859,"end":19916},[26236,26237,26238],{"text":26233,"start":19859,"end":19867},{"text":26233,"start":19867,"end":19877},{"text":26239,"start":19879,"end":19916},"Ah, das war's auch noch nicht mit der Programmierbar, weil Dennis war Wenn ihr bei",{"sentences":26241,"speaker":4711,"num_words":4711,"start":19916,"end":19926},[26242],{"text":26243,"start":19916,"end":19926},"der App habt",{"sentences":26245,"speaker":106,"num_words":26250,"start":19929,"end":20033},[26246,26248],{"text":26247,"start":19929,"end":19941},"die Ideen habt sprechen.",{"text":26249,"start":19945,"end":20033},"Ja, wenn ihr Ideen habt, was wir jetzt in den Hintergrund stellen sollen, wenn ihr was Schönes habt, was auf unser Regal soll für die wenigen, die das hier per Video gucken und nicht neu überlegen",40,{"sentences":26252,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":20036,"end":20046},[26253],{"text":26254,"start":20036,"end":20046},"Was habt ihr denn?",{"sentences":26256,"speaker":129,"num_words":24916,"start":20049,"end":20069},[26257],{"text":26258,"start":20049,"end":20069},"Das das ein leuchtendes Regnative Logo.",{"sentences":26260,"speaker":304,"num_words":25089,"start":20073,"end":20121},[26261],{"text":26262,"start":20073,"end":20121},"Nee, ist, wir haben doch diesen lustigen Programmierer bei Geiss, der nur bei uns intern immer auftaucht.",{"sentences":26264,"speaker":129,"num_words":24902,"start":20121,"end":20161},[26265,26267],{"text":26266,"start":20121,"end":20150},"Oh, den können wir mal 3D drucken und da hinstellen.",{"text":26268,"start":20150,"end":20161},"Aber dann ableuchten.",{"sentences":26270,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":20165,"end":20179},[26271,26273,26274],{"text":26272,"start":20165,"end":20170},"Sehr gut.",{"text":20175,"start":20170,"end":20174},{"text":20181,"start":20178,"end":20179},{"sentences":26276,"speaker":129,"num_words":24902,"start":20183,"end":20217},[26277],{"text":26278,"start":20183,"end":20217},"Richard soll das mal so semitransparent drucken und dann stellen wir den dahin.",{"sentences":26280,"speaker":304,"num_words":24977,"start":20220,"end":20268},[26281,26282],{"text":619,"start":20220,"end":20221},{"text":26283,"start":20221,"end":20268},"Wir könnten auch mit Richards das dann eher sone Nerd Folge, mal sone 3 D Folge machen.",{"sentences":26285,"speaker":129,"num_words":24911,"start":20271,"end":20314},[26286],{"text":26287,"start":20271,"end":20314},"Was ist immer eher sone Nerd Folge im Vergleich zu allen anderen Folgen bei uns, die so sehr wild",{"sentences":26289,"speaker":304,"num_words":24957,"start":20316,"end":20396},[26290],{"text":26291,"start":20316,"end":20396},"Ja, weil's halt weil's halt nicht so viel mit Programmen zu tun hat, aber so 3 D Druck, der ist da grad voll drin und mit AI geht er wohl auch wieder Dann können",{"sentences":26293,"speaker":106,"num_words":26303,"start":20396,"end":20573},[26294,26296,26298,26300,26302],{"text":26295,"start":20396,"end":20472},"wir auch Penny noch einladen, der baut grade sonen so Lego, also das mit mit Astra kann so komplette Lego Modelle und so Anleitungen und so was bauen.",{"text":26297,"start":20472,"end":20527},"Richtig cool und zeigt jetzt alles in 3D an und sagt so, hey, baut 'n Fußballstadion und dann werden alle Teile zusammengesessen.",{"text":26299,"start":20527,"end":20556},"Boah, und Du kannst einfach Lego Modelle selbst generieren so.",{"text":26301,"start":20556,"end":20569},"Auch 'n wirklich gutes Ding.",{"text":619,"start":20572,"end":20573},66,{"sentences":26305,"speaker":106,"num_words":26314,"start":20577,"end":20652},[26306,26307,26309,26311,26312],{"text":20581,"start":20577,"end":20578},{"text":26308,"start":20583,"end":20590},"Ja, Apple, genau.",{"text":26310,"start":20592,"end":20635},"Ein Thema, wo wir wieder wo ich mit Halbwissen tragen kann, aber das war noch ein kleines Tipp.",{"text":20636,"start":20635,"end":20638},{"text":26313,"start":20641,"end":20652},"Tipp ist richtig, ne?",27,{"sentences":26316,"speaker":4711,"num_words":25094,"start":20652,"end":20667},[26317,26318,26319,26320,26321],{"text":20636,"start":20652,"end":20654},{"text":20636,"start":20654,"end":20657},{"text":20636,"start":20657,"end":20660},{"text":20636,"start":20660,"end":20663},{"text":20636,"start":20663,"end":20667},{"sentences":26323,"speaker":4711,"num_words":25094,"start":20667,"end":20680},[26324,26325,26326,26327,26328],{"text":20636,"start":20667,"end":20670},{"text":20636,"start":20670,"end":20673},{"text":20636,"start":20673,"end":20675},{"text":20636,"start":20675,"end":20677},{"text":20636,"start":20677,"end":20680},{"sentences":26330,"speaker":4711,"num_words":4711,"start":20680,"end":20689},[26331,26332,26333],{"text":20636,"start":20680,"end":20682},{"text":20636,"start":20682,"end":20686},{"text":20636,"start":20686,"end":20689},{"sentences":26335,"speaker":129,"num_words":106,"start":20689,"end":20692},[26336],{"text":20636,"start":20689,"end":20692},{"sentences":26338,"speaker":106,"num_words":26347,"start":20697,"end":21119},[26339,26341,26342,26343,26345],{"text":26340,"start":20697,"end":20702},"Tilly richtig.",{"text":26340,"start":20702,"end":20707},{"text":26340,"start":20707,"end":20713},{"text":26344,"start":20713,"end":20889},"Tilly aus der Apple Keynote, wo man erst mal so als Consumer, mein erster Mal jetzt so gedacht, ja, aber dann zur zweiten denken, oh ja, ziemlich cool und zwar ist es in der Kamera vom neuen iPhone integriert, das durch Sicherheitsmechanismen auf Pixel eben, ne, kann da inkodiert oder in das Bild reingeschrieben werden, vorsehen, das ist eine Originalaufnahme.",{"text":26346,"start":20893,"end":21119},"So und das wird gespeichert, also diese Situation, also ist praktisch son bisschen wie bei den AI Bildern, wo auch hingeschrieben wird mit diesem Synth ID und so, hey, das ist irgendwie serviert, dass das 'n AI Generiert des Bild ist, gibt es diese Originalaufnahme und die Originalaufnahme bleibt in auf deinem iOS Gerät praktisch parallel zu, wenn Du das dann weiter bearbeitest oder mit der ja irgendwas machst oder so was, bleibt das da und kann halt praktisch authentifizieren, dass das ein originales Bild ist, was gemacht wurde.",155,{"sentences":26349,"speaker":106,"num_words":26354,"start":21121,"end":21280},[26350,26352],{"text":26351,"start":21121,"end":21268},"Und ich finde halt in der heutigen Zeit, wo so wahnsinnig viel Fake Sachen unterwegs sind, ist es halt cool, technologisch einen Schritt weiterzugehen und halt sicher bestimmen zu können und sicher zu sagen können, das hier ist ein Originalbild, so sah die Szene aus, Du sah es aus, es wurde sicher nicht bearbeitet und sicher aufgenommen.",{"text":26353,"start":21271,"end":21280},"Wie wie kann man das",62,{"sentences":26356,"speaker":304,"num_words":24924,"start":21280,"end":21320},[26357,26359],{"text":26358,"start":21280,"end":21286},"sich bestellen?",{"text":26360,"start":21286,"end":21320},"Warum warum kann man das sich einfach nachsegnen, wenn er das verändert und das?",{"sentences":26362,"speaker":106,"num_words":822,"start":21320,"end":21480},[26363,26365,26367,26369],{"text":26364,"start":21320,"end":21339},"So, und das ist jetzt sehr das Halbwissen.",{"text":26366,"start":21339,"end":21421},"Also weil das irgendwie, das diese Sicherheitselemente sind irgendwie bis auf Ja, was heißt, bis auf fixe Ebene, aber es wird praktisch da reingebrannt in dieses in dieses Bild Ja.",{"text":26368,"start":21423,"end":21436},"Und Du kannst halt nicht ausrechnen.",{"text":26370,"start":21439,"end":21480},"Also ich mein, Du kannst Und Du kannst es auch, glaube ich Genau, Du kannst es auch nicht einfach",{"sentences":26372,"speaker":304,"num_words":24946,"start":21482,"end":21508},[26373],{"text":26374,"start":21482,"end":21508},"Hattest Du das Gefühl, als Du's gelesen hast, okay, das funktioniert?",{"sentences":26376,"speaker":106,"num_words":25094,"start":21512,"end":21525},[26377],{"text":26378,"start":21512,"end":21525},"Jano, wie hat dein Gefühl?",{"sentences":26380,"speaker":129,"num_words":26391,"start":21528,"end":21724},[26381,26383,26385,26387,26389],{"text":26382,"start":21528,"end":21539},"Also ich muss sagen Ja.",{"text":26384,"start":21542,"end":21585},"Da der Punkt ist ja, sie sie garantieren ja nur für das, was der Sensor so gesehen hat, ne.",{"text":26386,"start":21585,"end":21622},"Du kannst natürlich jetzt einfach immer noch irgendwie 'n Screengrab abfotografieren damit oder so.",{"text":26388,"start":21622,"end":21716},"Also es ist wie viele Sachen, die so in Security sind, halt auch nur 'n Teil von dieser Kette, der Du halt irgendwie glauben musst, aber es ist halt, wie viele Sachen in Security, besser als nix.",{"text":26390,"start":21716,"end":21724},"So, ja?",77,{"sentences":26393,"speaker":129,"num_words":25413,"start":21724,"end":21783},[26394,26396],{"text":26395,"start":21724,"end":21739},"Es kann irgendwie ein Schritt davon sein.",{"text":26397,"start":21739,"end":21783},"Es ist nicht die Lösung für alle diese Probleme, aber es ist, glaube ich, 'n wichtiger Baustein.",{"sentences":26399,"speaker":304,"num_words":25533,"start":21786,"end":21844},[26400],{"text":26401,"start":21786,"end":21844},"Und es ist auch, es sind auch Daten, die man dann in Social Media anzeigen kann oder muss das auf deinem Handy sein?",{"sentences":26403,"speaker":129,"num_words":26410,"start":21844,"end":22045},[26404,26406,26408],{"text":26405,"start":21844,"end":21882},"Nee, nee, es ist wohl embedded im File und Du kannst es später auch auswählen.",{"text":26407,"start":21882,"end":21998},"Also so wie ja, wenn Du jetzt zum Beispiel 'n Synth ID AI Bild zu LinkedIn oder Instagram oder so hochlädst, die zeigen ja dann quasi darauf aufbauend jetzt auch schon Disclaimer an so, hey, das ist ein AI generiertes Bild, nur dass Du Bescheid weißt.",{"text":26409,"start":21998,"end":22045},"Und so könnten sie quasi in Zukunft auch anzeigen, so, hey, dieses Bild ist quasi referenz Image, bla, verifiziert,",80,{"sentences":26412,"speaker":4711,"num_words":24916,"start":22045,"end":22061},[26413],{"text":26414,"start":22045,"end":22061},"dass das so so echt ist.",{"sentences":26416,"speaker":129,"num_words":24946,"start":22061,"end":22091},[26417],{"text":26418,"start":22061,"end":22091},"Ich frag mich, ob das dass das so so echt ist.",{"sentences":26420,"speaker":304,"num_words":26427,"start":22091,"end":22210},[26421,26423,26425],{"text":26422,"start":22091,"end":22141},"Er fragt mich, ob das dann, also, ja, muss ich mich mal einlesen, weil das find ich eigentlich ganz spannend.",{"text":26424,"start":22141,"end":22203},"Ich mein, man könnte so was ja ähnlich wie Zertifikate in bei Webseiten machen, dass halt Apple, dass Du das bei Apple gegenchecken musst?",{"text":26426,"start":22203,"end":22210},"Also ist das",47,{"sentences":26429,"speaker":129,"num_words":25638,"start":22212,"end":22236},[26430,26432],{"text":26431,"start":22212,"end":22232},"Das ist halt wieder son zentralisierterer Ansatz, ne?",{"text":25806,"start":22232,"end":22236},{"sentences":26434,"speaker":4711,"num_words":304,"start":22236,"end":22242},[26435],{"text":26436,"start":22236,"end":22242},"Da bin",{"sentences":26438,"speaker":129,"num_words":26445,"start":22242,"end":22406},[26439,26441,26443],{"text":26440,"start":22242,"end":22279},"ich auch für Infrastruktur und eine zentrale Authority, der Du irgendwie vertraust.",{"text":26442,"start":22283,"end":22326},"Und das ist halt genau das, was sie quasi nicht machen wollten damit, aber das wär der der Gegenentwurf.",{"text":26444,"start":22330,"end":22406},"Dennis, hast Du das gesehen, ob das nur bei den neuen iPhones Pro oder nur mit dem neuen iOS oder auch rückwirkend für andere Modelle oder wer wer hat das denn jetzt alles?",64,{"sentences":26447,"speaker":106,"num_words":25223,"start":22409,"end":22644},[26448,26450,26451,26453,26455],{"text":26449,"start":22409,"end":22529},"Oder Der geht nur, genau, das geht nur für 9 18 pro iPhones, weil eben und das kommen wir zu deinen Zertifikaten, wenn dieser Chip, dieser Chip initialisiert wird oder dieser Kamerachip initialisiert wird, dann erstellt der einen Key Ja.",{"text":22535,"start":22532,"end":22533},{"text":26452,"start":22533,"end":22568},"Und dann gibt es, der private Key bleibt halt dann irgendwie auf dem Gerät Ja.",{"text":26454,"start":22570,"end":22636},"Und dann gibt es halt sone eine Certificate Authority, die irgendwie dahinter steht und dann kann später Apple das praktisch sagen, dass es zu einem Gerät gehört.",{"text":26456,"start":22640,"end":22644},"Ja, das",{"sentences":26458,"speaker":304,"num_words":25883,"start":22644,"end":22662},[26459,26461,26463],{"text":26460,"start":22644,"end":22650},"mein ich.",{"text":26462,"start":22650,"end":22657},"Ich weiß nicht.",{"text":26464,"start":22659,"end":22662},"Weil da",{"sentences":26466,"speaker":129,"num_words":24977,"start":22662,"end":22709},[26467],{"text":26468,"start":22662,"end":22709},"muss nicht das Bild zu Apple selbst irgendwie bla, das ist halt nur die die Zertifizierungskette, ne, sone",{"sentences":26470,"speaker":304,"num_words":25361,"start":22711,"end":22768},[26471,26473],{"text":26472,"start":22711,"end":22728},"Ja, ja, das meinen sie aber.",{"text":26474,"start":22731,"end":22768},"Also, dass Du, sag ich mal, eine 1 Autorität hast, Apple, die sagen kann, ja, ja,",{"sentences":26476,"speaker":4711,"num_words":106,"start":22770,"end":22771},[26477],{"text":325,"start":22770,"end":22771},{"sentences":26479,"speaker":304,"num_words":25074,"start":22771,"end":22852},[26480],{"text":26481,"start":22771,"end":22852},"ist von 'nem Gerät von uns, weil das ist ja das Einzige, was in meinen Augen auch wirklich nicht Also und geborene ist das dann da dem mit Vertrauen so.",{"sentences":26483,"speaker":106,"num_words":25028,"start":22854,"end":22962},[26484,26485,26486,26488,26490],{"text":630,"start":22854,"end":22855},{"text":4445,"start":22855,"end":22859},{"text":26487,"start":22859,"end":22936},"Und tatsächlich ist das auch noch auch noch über den Apple Push Notification Service, wo dann son Hardview Protokoll läuft und immer guckt, dass das alles noch aktuell ist.",{"text":26489,"start":22936,"end":22950},"Also es ist schon ziemlich Okay.",{"text":26491,"start":22952,"end":22962},"Ziemlich, würde ich sagen.",{"sentences":26493,"speaker":304,"num_words":25067,"start":22964,"end":22992},[26494,26496,26498],{"text":26495,"start":22964,"end":22969},"Und ja.",{"text":26497,"start":22971,"end":22987},"Und für Videos und Bilder beides.",{"text":22994,"start":22991,"end":22992},{"sentences":26500,"speaker":129,"num_words":24916,"start":22992,"end":23007},[26501],{"text":26502,"start":22992,"end":23007},"Ich glaub nur für Bilder gerade.",{"sentences":26504,"speaker":106,"num_words":25557,"start":23010,"end":23193},[26505,26507,26509,26511,26513],{"text":26506,"start":23010,"end":23052},"Aber dann machst Du halt son Start Frame, machst ein Bild und nimmst dann 'n Video auf.",{"text":26508,"start":23052,"end":23081},"Also wenn's Zeitung drum, Berichterstattung geht zum Beispiel.",{"text":26510,"start":23081,"end":23115},"Ich mein, da kannst Du ja ein Foto machen und danach hat das Video.",{"text":26512,"start":23115,"end":23156},"Da kannst Du halt auch nicht sagen, dass es die komplette Videolänge länger jetzt Ja.",{"text":26514,"start":23159,"end":23193},"Diagnostiziert ist, aber es geht ja erst mal son bisschen auf die authentische Situation.",{"sentences":26516,"speaker":304,"num_words":25638,"start":23196,"end":23223},[26517],{"text":26518,"start":23196,"end":23223},"Da ist wahrscheinlich George Schwierigkeit dabei, dir das zu erwähnen.",{"sentences":26520,"speaker":129,"num_words":25089,"start":23223,"end":23267},[26521,26522],{"text":25369,"start":23223,"end":23229},{"text":26523,"start":23229,"end":23267},"Also freuen wir uns alle auf neue iPhones gegen AI Deep Facts oder so was.",{"sentences":26525,"speaker":304,"num_words":4711,"start":23269,"end":23277},[26526],{"text":26527,"start":23269,"end":23277},"Find ich's gut.",{"sentences":26529,"speaker":106,"num_words":24934,"start":23279,"end":23287},[26530],{"text":26531,"start":23279,"end":23287},"Dann könnten wir vielleicht",{"sentences":26533,"speaker":304,"num_words":149,"start":23287,"end":23320},[26534],{"text":26535,"start":23287,"end":23320},"auch endlich mal 'n Social Media bestellen, was nur echte Medien erlaubt.",{"sentences":26537,"speaker":129,"num_words":4711,"start":23324,"end":23332},[26538],{"text":26539,"start":23324,"end":23332},"Netzwerk meinst Du?",{"sentences":26541,"speaker":106,"num_words":24916,"start":23334,"end":23352},[26542],{"text":26543,"start":23334,"end":23352},"Nur automatisiert echte Bilder ohne Überarbeit.",{"sentences":26545,"speaker":304,"num_words":25831,"start":23356,"end":23379},[26546,26548,26550],{"text":26547,"start":23356,"end":23366},"Der will das schon.",{"text":26549,"start":23369,"end":23375},"Der er hat.",{"text":211,"start":23378,"end":23379},{"sentences":26552,"speaker":129,"num_words":26563,"start":23381,"end":23735},[26553,26555,26557,26559,26561],{"text":26554,"start":23381,"end":23446},"hab noch eine ganz kurze eine ganz kurze Randnotiz, die mir heute Morgen hier über den Ticker gelaufen ist, wenn wir jetzt mit diesem iPhone Thema durch sind.",{"text":26556,"start":23446,"end":23535},"Weil wir hatten das auch vor 'n paar Monaten schon mal besprochen, dass AWS ja 1 seiner Datacenters offline nehmen musste wegen dem Irankrieg, das in Bahrain irgendwie getroffen wurde.",{"text":26558,"start":23537,"end":23584},"Und sie haben jetzt heute Nacht eine Pressemitteilung rausgegeben, dass so, sie schreiben dieses Ding halt komplett ab.",{"text":26560,"start":23584,"end":23652},"So, alle Daten weg, alles gar nix, jeder Recoveryversuch war quasi nicht mehr zu gebrauchen und das ist, glaube ich, so wie ich das sehe, das 1.",{"text":26562,"start":23652,"end":23735},"Mal in der Geschichte von AWS, dass das halt überhaupt passiert ist, dass so 'n Datacenter oder wenns halt nur ein Datacenter der Region gab, quasi eine ganze Region, verloren hast so, ja.",136,{"sentences":26565,"speaker":129,"num_words":25187,"start":23737,"end":23793},[26566],{"text":26567,"start":23737,"end":23793},"Und das nur so als als kleiner Reminder, dass so Redundancy und Multiregion und so sollte man sich mal anschauen.",{"sentences":26569,"speaker":106,"num_words":25883,"start":23797,"end":23819},[26570],{"text":26571,"start":23797,"end":23819},"Back up Strategien, Feuer mit Jan 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Forensickern da irgendwie dran waren und bla, aber jetzt halt doch irgendwie, als sie eingestehen mussten, so, das das kriegen wir nicht mehr hin.",46,{"sentences":26596,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":24014,"end":24025},[26597],{"text":26598,"start":24014,"end":24025},"Ja, es ist sicher",{"sentences":26600,"speaker":129,"num_words":24934,"start":24028,"end":24036},[26601],{"text":26602,"start":24028,"end":24036},"öfter mal was Neues.",{"sentences":26604,"speaker":106,"num_words":304,"start":24040,"end":24047},[26605,26606],{"text":24044,"start":24040,"end":24041},{"text":2848,"start":24046,"end":24047},{"sentences":26608,"speaker":304,"num_words":25162,"start":24047,"end":24091},[26609,26610],{"text":24052,"start":24047,"end":24050},{"text":26611,"start":24054,"end":24091},"So, ich krieg sogar den ganzen Sinn mal so ganz knapp an der Grenze.",{"sentences":26613,"speaker":129,"num_words":25975,"start":24091,"end":24188},[26614],{"text":26615,"start":24091,"end":24188},"Weißt Du, ich hab als Micky News damals vorgelesen hab, da hab ich mich schon die Nesseln gesetzt mit so, wie man wie man darüber berichtet, aber das das war jetzt für 'n Vereins obendrauf.",{"sentences":26617,"speaker":106,"num_words":25883,"start":24191,"end":24209},[26618,26620],{"text":26619,"start":24191,"end":24203},"Ich habe nicht darüber nachgedacht.",{"text":26621,"start":24203,"end":24209},"Es war",{"sentences":26623,"speaker":304,"num_words":24934,"start":24209,"end":24221},[26624],{"text":26625,"start":24209,"end":24221},"kein kein bisschen gefasst.",{"sentences":26627,"speaker":106,"num_words":25089,"start":24225,"end":24270},[26628,26630,26632],{"text":26629,"start":24225,"end":24231},"Ein Abschied.",{"text":26631,"start":24231,"end":24252},"Es war noch nicht mal eine absichtliche Referenz.",{"text":26633,"start":24252,"end":24270},"Es war einfach nur ein Wort, ein",{"sentences":26635,"speaker":304,"num_words":24924,"start":24272,"end":24313},[26636,26638,26640,26642],{"text":26637,"start":24272,"end":24284},"Das hab ich mir schon gedacht.",{"text":26639,"start":24284,"end":24296},"Ja, das ist so Priming.",{"text":26641,"start":24296,"end":24308},"Du wurdest weg gepimet.",{"text":619,"start":24312,"end":24313},{"sentences":26644,"speaker":129,"num_words":4711,"start":24313,"end":24324},[26645,26646],{"text":24318,"start":24313,"end":24316},{"text":26647,"start":24320,"end":24324},"Okay, okay.",{"sentences":26649,"speaker":304,"num_words":25883,"start":24324,"end":24345},[26650,26651],{"text":24331,"start":24324,"end":24328},{"text":26652,"start":24333,"end":24345},"Du kommst noch mit durch von",{"sentences":26654,"speaker":129,"num_words":25105,"start":24348,"end":24382},[26655,26657,26659],{"text":26656,"start":24348,"end":24353},"sympathisch bist.",{"text":26658,"start":24353,"end":24369},"So, damit sind wir fertig für 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