[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":39940},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fnews-34-26-pass-ta-key-passkey-angriff-stripe-kauft-openrouter-mistral-baut-ai-infrastruktur-deepseek-harness-cloudflare-kitesurf-ai-und-coding-interviews":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":97,"speakerCount":98,"relatedPodcasts":99,"transcript":100},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":14,"cover_image":15,"banner_image":12,"speakers":27,"members":28,"picks_of_the_day":93,"tags":94,"tagsPrepared":95,"speakersPrepared":96},"a1f6091b-d5b3-4452-bdbb-7d9e53416fcf","2026-08-20T04:00:00.000Z","news","34\u002F26","Pass-ta-key-Passkey-Angriff  \u002F\u002F Stripe kauft OpenRouter \u002F\u002F Mistral baut AI-Infrastruktur \u002F\u002F Deepseek Harness \u002F\u002F Cloudflare Kitesurf \u002F\u002F AI und Coding Interviews","news-34-26-pass-ta-key-passkey-angriff-stripe-kauft-openrouter-mistral-baut-ai-infrastruktur-deepseek-harness-cloudflare-kitesurf-ai-und-coding-interviews","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Diese Woche geht’s um eine Passkey-Attacke, die harmloser ist, als ihr Name vermuten lässt, Stripes Milliarden-Deal mit Open Router, Mistrals neue Rolle als europäischer Infrastruktur-Anbieter, DeepSeeks radikal modularen Agent-Harness, Cloudflares Browser für AI-Agenten und um die Frage, ob Coding-Interviews wirklich aussterben.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003Cem>Ihr habt noch kein Ticket für die programmier.con 2026? Dann nutzt jetzt noch die Chance und nehmt am 25. und 26 November an unserem Event rund um Web und AI teil! Mehr unter: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcon.programmier.bar\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">https:\u002F\u002Fcon.programmier.bar\u002F\u003C\u002Fa>\u003C\u002Fem>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Dave nimmt sich die sogenannten \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Farstechnica.com\u002Fsecurity\u002F2026\u002F08\u002Fheres-why-the-new-pass-ta-key-attack-is-mostly-a-nothingburger\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">„Pass-ta-key“-Angriffe\u003C\u002Fa> vor. Was auf den ersten Blick nach dem Ende von Passkeys klingt, entpuppt sich aber als etwas ganz anderes. Fazit: Passkeys selbst bleiben sicher. Wer tiefer einsteigen will, findet mehr dazu in unserem Deep Dive mit Martina Kraus.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fthe-decoder.de\u002Fstripe-kauft-wohl-ki-startup-openrouter-fuer-mehr-als-7-milliarden-dollar\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Stripe will das KI-Modell-Gateway Open Router für 7 Milliarden Dollar übernehmen\u003C\u002Fa> und wir erläutern, warum das eigentlich naheliegend ist. \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.heise.de\u002Fnews\u002FMistrals-grosse-Wette-auf-Europas-KI-Infrastruktur-11412099.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mistral öffnet sich derweil strategisch\u003C\u002Fa>: Statt nur eigene Modelle anzubieten, positioniert sich das Unternehmen zunehmend als europäischer Infrastruktur-Anbieter und öffnet gleichzeitig seine Plattform für externe Modelle, den Anfang macht GLM-5.2.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Fabi bringt DeepSeeks neuen Agent-Harness mit, kurz \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fdeepseek.com\u002Fharness\u002Fen\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">„DeepSeek Harness“\u003C\u002Fa>. Der Clou daran: Wirklich alles ist ein Plugin, nicht nur Modelle und Tools, sondern auch der Agent-Loop selbst, der bei den meisten anderen Harnessen wie Claude Code oder Codex fest eingebaut ist. Das macht das System extrem flexibel und bringt sogar einen eigenen Plugin-Marktplatz mit. Für wen sich das lohnt und bei wem Convenience wichtiger ist, hört ihr in der Diskussion.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Anschließend geht’s um \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fblog.cloudflare.com\u002Fkitesurf\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Kitesurf\u003C\u002Fa>, Cloudflares neuen Browser, der nicht für Menschen, sondern für AI-Agenten gebaut wurde. Für typische Agenten-Aufgaben wie Screenshots oder HTML-Extraktion braucht der Browser deutlich weniger Speicher und Rechenleistung, kostenlos nutzbar ist er aktuell in der Beta über Cloudflares Browser-Rendering-Produkt.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zum Abschluss diskutiert die Runde einen \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fstart.dev\u002Fblog\u002Fdid-ai-kill-coding-interviews\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Blogpost von start.dev\u003C\u002Fa>, der behauptet: Coding-Interviews sind nicht so tot wie auf Social Media gerne behauptet wird. Die Crew diskutiert, worum es bei einem Coding-Interview eigentlich geht, welche Aufgabenstellungen dafür geeignet sind und wo der Einsatz von KI sinnvoll ist. Bei Lotum hat sich die Anforderung an neue Entwickler:innen laut Dennis inhaltlich kaum verändert, wohl aber das Framing der Stellenausschreibungen.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19670721-news-34-26-pass-ta-key-passkey-angriff-stripe-kauft-openrouter-mistral-baut-ai-infrastruktur-deepseek-harness-cloudflare-kitesurf-ai-und-coding-interviews.mp3","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=BaWAGSQ9OGQ",{"id":16,"title":17,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":18,"filename_download":19,"metadata":20,"type":21,"filesize":22,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":23,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":25,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"acd9112b-2c3d-491a-909d-5fb6b1d03862","News Asset 34","acd9112b-2c3d-491a-909d-5fb6b1d03862.jpg","News-Asset 34.jpg",{},"image\u002Fjpeg","1262581","2026-08-19T09:25:59.306Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-08-19T09:25:59.302Z",1500,[],[29,47,62,77],{"member":30},{"id":31,"first_name":32,"last_name":33,"occupation":34,"description":35,"normal_image":36},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":37,"title":38,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":39,"filename_download":40,"metadata":41,"type":21,"filesize":42,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":43,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":45,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",1024,{"member":48},{"id":49,"first_name":50,"last_name":51,"occupation":52,"description":53,"normal_image":54},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":55,"title":56,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":57,"filename_download":58,"metadata":12,"type":21,"filesize":59,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":60,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":61,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",{"member":63},{"id":64,"first_name":65,"last_name":66,"occupation":52,"description":67,"normal_image":68},"ff2b7fcd-803f-4bcb-88d4-4f36636c7d6a","Fabi","Fink","\u003Cp>Es ist eher dem Zufall zuzuschreiben, dass Fabi zum Full Stack Developer wurde. Mit Anfängen als Product Owner und Software-Architekt, hatte er zwischenzeitig seine Passion als Coding Wizard gefunden. Heute fungiert er als Product Manager bei Lotum.\u003Cbr>Als Frontsänger mehrerer Bandprojekte fehlt Fabi manchmal die große Bühne im Alltag. Das ist vor allem dann spürbar, wenn er im Podcast auch mal ungefragt seinen Expertisen-Senf dazugibt. Im Gegenzug ist er der Einzige in der Runde, der den Pick of the Day wirklich ernst nimmt.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":69,"title":70,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":71,"filename_download":72,"metadata":73,"type":21,"filesize":74,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":75,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":76,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86","Fabi CD","56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86.jpg","Fabi_CD.jpg",{},"583732","2024-07-29T11:46:00.241Z","2024-07-29T11:46:00.135Z",{"member":78},{"id":79,"first_name":80,"last_name":81,"occupation":82,"description":83,"normal_image":84},"11d2e9b0-4443-4287-96bc-3930b0ada739","Dave","Koschitzki","\u002F\u002F Website \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dave ist seit 2024 Mitglied des programmier.bar-Teams. Neben seiner Arbeit an der Website-Entwicklung bringt er frischen Wind in den Podcast und ist regelmäßig bei Meetups anzutreffen. Seine Leidenschaft für Games, die er sowohl auf der Konsole als auch am PC spielt, ist unübersehbar.\u003Cbr> \u003Cbr>Wenn er nicht gerade in virtuelle Welten eintaucht, trifft man ihn im Fitnessstudio, wo er mit Begeisterung Gewichte stemmt. Dave bereichert das Team nicht nur durch seine technischen Fähigkeiten, sondern auch durch seine vielseitigen Interessen und ansteckende Energie.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":85,"title":86,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":87,"filename_download":88,"metadata":89,"type":21,"filesize":90,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":91,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":92,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"578c2a0f-e919-4668-9cb4-f5b97252d57f","Dave CD","578c2a0f-e919-4668-9cb4-f5b97252d57f.jpg","Dave_CD.jpg",{},"675668","2024-07-29T14:46:16.725Z","2024-07-29T14:46:16.613Z",[],[],[],[],485,206,[],{"id":101,"service":102,"supported_features":103,"speakers":106,"raw_response":116},"375af3aa-0ed3-44b9-92e3-d371404e67e1","deepgram",[104,105],"timestamps","diarization",[107,110,112,114],{"identifier":108,"name":109},"0","Jan",{"identifier":111,"name":80},"1",{"identifier":113,"name":50},"2",{"identifier":115,"name":65},"3",{"metadata":117,"results":134},{"transaction_key":118,"request_id":119,"sha256":120,"created":121,"duration":122,"channels":123,"models":124,"model_info":126,"diarize_info":131},"deprecated","01a01a76-fb3f-77a3-8655-d4ddb32a2826","789baf65a234825aaeb4fdaa39f916d5055ebbb0add575de89f48c0ca7fe5e43","2026-08-19T14:40:04.618Z",3026.674,1,[125],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":127},{"name":128,"version":129,"arch":130},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"model_uuid":132,"arch":133},"a9f85c2b-5afb-4b9d-b49b-492c43a01cfb","v1",{"channels":135,"utterances":28133},[136],{"alternatives":137},[138],{"transcript":139,"confidence":140,"words":141,"paragraphs":26074},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute schon in Kalenderwoche 34. Und die Folge ist voll voll. Nicht nur an Personen, sondern auch an Themen. Wir haben heute am Start neben dem Jan Gregor Ing Getriebe noch den Dave Acker, David Krusitzky. Moin, was geht. Ich bin Dennis Becker. Hallo. Und ich bin der Fabi Fin Kai. Und zusammen sind wir Doppel d. Wo kommt das her? Das Nee, ich hab das abgespielt. Ich wusste, dass wir irgendwann auf Doppel-d kommen, diese Nummer. Ich wusste nur nicht, dass Dave so schnell dahin kommt, aber ich war dann Zack. Oh, dich schlecht. Oh ja, das war Der war wirklich glatt. Selbstständig zusammen meint der Dave natürlich nur Dennis und Dave. Jan und ich haben nichts damit zu tun. Genau, erzähl dir mal, was das stimmt. Wir waren wir waren Jan und wir waren nur Zeugen. Jan und Fabi fangen ja auch nicht an mit d Ja. Dem Namen, deswegen können ja gar nicht Doppel-d sein. Genau und damit ihr euch dich völlig für verrückt erklärt, ganz kurz im Kontext, wir hatten bei Lothum letzten Freitag unser Sommerfest und das war im Festival Style dieses Jahr und wo eigentlich verschiedenste Bands auftreten sollten. Am Ende a eine professionelle und sehr gute Band Doppel-d. Sagte bitte. Kurz den Namen, noch mal? Fajet. Fajet liebe Grüße an Fajet. Stehen, was dazu führt, dass wir einfach so, geil, das machen wir, finden wir gut. So, dann war ich 3 Wochen genau so, in in genau diesem Zeitpunkt. Genau so haben wir jetzt abgemacht. Und dann war ich 3 Wochen im Urlaub und dann war hatten wir noch 5 Tage Zeit und dann haben wir gesagt, okay, jetzt brauchen wir 'n Song, jetzt brauchen wir 'n Konzept. Und dann haben wir 'n ein Set auf die Bühne gezimmert mit 3 Songs aus unterschiedlichen Genres und unser Künstlername ist Doppel-d. Und unser erster Song, der rausgekommen heißt, heißt Ist auch Doppel-d. Sehr passend, sehr passend. Ja. Also und es war Devi Durst und Devi Druck. Und Devi dicht manchmal, da war's Triple-d, aber Ja, die Genres waren ja sehr unterschiedlich. Das war ja das Genre so Mallorca Ballermann Richtig. Ne, also Richtig. Wann geht die Tour los? Wir lassen uns hoffentlich von Carlo noch mal professionell Abmischen? Abmischen und produzieren und dann geht das erst mal auf Spotify, dann holen wir all die Oh, das ist gut, hier programmierbar. Erst mal alle Programmierer Leute. Alter, nee. Ihr könnt ja auf der Programmiercon vielleicht noch mal Alles schlecht, alles schlecht. Alles schlecht. Oh, hier wird grade gekocht, man, hier wird grade gekocht hier. Wie geht's zum Frühstück morgens? Aber da sollt ich vielleicht mit dem Ding auch noch mal üben. Okay. Jetzt wird hier geschossen. Das war doch, da war doch voll viel Auto Autotune drauf, oder? Bei dir auch. Ich glaub schon. Oh, dann Ja, aber deswegen ist, ich glaub, ich hab den Kieferkackt tatsächlich, hab den falschen Key gegeben. Mhm. Und dadurch klang's 'n bisschen oft. Das heißt, unsere Tontöne wurden korrigiert, ob auf die falsche Tonart ist da. Na ja, Okay, aber auch zum anderen, das kann man sagen, gehört auch zum Charme. Ja, genau. War war mal bewusst so gemacht. Also lass uns vielleicht mal wissen, ob auf der Programmiercon hier Doppel-d auftreten soll, ob Dave und Dennis 2 Tage vorher noch mal Vollgas geben sollen, noch mal 'n noch keineres Set auf die beiden zu stellen. Sehr gut. Ja, man. Neben Doppel-d haben wir heute als Themen Paskies. Wir sprechen über Myster Surfing und diesmal nicht von Dennis. Wir sprechen über Deep Sieg und wir diskutieren am Ende noch mal über Coding Interviews und was da grade alles so tut. Aber vorher gibt's ein bisschen Housekeeping und mit dem größten Punkt darf Dennis anfangen. Ja, richtig. Wir hatten's, glaub ich, schon mal in den AI News und auch hier angedeutet, dass wir darüber überlegen, was wir mit unseren Formaten machen, ne. Wir haben ja seit, boah, ich glaub anderthalb Jahren oder wie lang ist das jetzt schon, haben wir angefangen, AI News explizit zu machen. Und die AI News waren in den ersten Monaten wirklich sehr, sehr technisch. Es ging so, ne, wie ist die Architektur da rum? Welche Modelle kommen raus? Es ging die Anzahl der Parameter, Mixedurve, Experts und so weiter. Also sehr so, ja, was was ist so, was die Technologie angeht. Und natürlich merken wir heute, dass irgendwie die regulären News, die eigentlich ja unsere Bubble son bisschen beschreiben, was sind die Tools, was sind die Updates gewesen zu Frameworks et cetera, dass das immer mehr zusammenkommt. Erstens, die ARD News sind immer produktlastiger und tullastiger geworden. Und die normalen News entwickeln sich natürlich auch dahin, weil unser Alltag sich immer mehr darum dreht, dass wir diese Tools einsetzen in unserem täglichen Doing. Und von daher wir nicht mehr so richtig den Sinn sehen, das Ganze aufzusplitten. Und von daher jetzt News aus beiden Bereichen einfach in die News nehmen. Ich glaube, von daher gar nicht mehr so hart irgendwie nur so Modelupdates und das sind die Parameter, die wir jetzt haben, aber das hatten wir in den AI News auch in der letzten Zeit sowieso nicht mehr so stark, sondern eher die Themen nehmen und versuchen da 'n bisschen mehr Kontext zu geben und sie einzuordnen, was unsere Meinung dazu ist. Genau und damit hoffen wir aber auch gerne hier Feedback wie immer an an Podcaster programmierbar, hoffen wir Leute jetzt nicht zu verschrecken, die vielleicht mal am Anfang die a I news gehört haben und gesagt haben, oh, das ist ja gar nichts für uns, sondern das ist natürlich heute viel praxisnäher und näher an dem, was man täglich tut. Genau. Und heute fangen wir, glaub ich, schon, das ist jetzt gar nicht so bewusst vorher entschieden worden, aber es ist sowieso schon ein Mix aus News und NI News, den's länger hier gibt. So wird auch die heutige Folge sollen. Genau. Und Philipp, den ihr exklusiv aus den AI News kennt, ist weiterhin eingeladen und kann je nach Verfügbarkeit gerne dazukommen und ja, wird voraussichtlich auch erst mal weiter alle 14 Tage mit in den News dabei sein. Wunderbar. Das war der 1. Teil vom Housekeeping. Ich mach den Rest. Und zwar haben wir ein Meet-up und zwar am siebzehnten September. Ihr alle wieder herzlich eingeladen, bei uns in Bad Nahem und die Saline zu kommen. Und das ist ein ganz besonderes Meet-up. Wir machen nämlich, was machen wir immer am Ende des Sommers? Ein Programmier Barbecue. Und es ist ein ganz besonderes Programmier Barbecue, weil Was ist vielleicht der? Smash Barbecue oder Fabi? Ja, Smash Burger. Ich werd am Grill stehen, aber nicht, weil ich das besonders gut kann, sondern weil ich's mir eigentlich zeigen lassen möchte, weil der Grischer, der auch schon hier zu Gast war, die sehr gut im Smash Burger machen ist, die sie immer mal probieren wollten, haben gesagt, komm, dann lass doch direkt alle Programmierbarhörer oder die auf dem Meet-up sind zumindest, auch mitprobieren. Und wir stellen uns an den Grill und machen geile Smash Burger für euch. Richtig guter Sales Pitch, Fabi. Ich steh am Grill, weil ich das nicht so gut kann. Nee, ich, nee, ich bin generell supergut im Grillen. Nur Smash Burger kann ich nicht so gut, aber wir haben das heiße. Ich mein, wenn jemand das mir das Handwerk zeigt, so ich ich bin schnell im Lernen so. Vielleicht Tipp, nicht den ersten Burger von mir nehmen. Hin so ab dem dritten wird's, glaub ich, richtig geil. Geil. Und Aber zum Beispiel Burger hast Du schon mal gegessen, oder? Ja. Also wie viel, ist nicht ist nicht das, was bei gibt irgendwie Smash? Ich weiß gar nicht genau. Ich ich weiß auch gar nicht. Nein. Ich hab schon mal 'n Youtube über Smash Burger gesehen. Ist das Smash Burger am Freitag? Also, ja, okay. Ja, dass Du das, was bei uns Freitag gibst, das geht schon in die Richtung. Das schon, ja. Ach so, ja okay. Dann findest Du nicht so geil, oder? Du Vegetarier findest Du Nee, das Ding ist, also man muss ja sagen, oft das, was es in Veggie gibt, ist ja immer die schlechtere Variante, ne, deswegen bin ich ja nicht so Hype drauf. Aber Aber ich glaub, also ich glaub, Grischelt hat was mit Beyond Meet oder so was gemacht. Die sind wirklich krass. Die Beyond Meet Burger sind wirklich krass. Okay. Also May. May. Ich glaube, wenn irgendwas so gut. Mit den Burgern gibt's am siebzehnten September natürlich auch einen Talk. Was? Wie? Ach so. Ach so. Das ist ja auch am Mieter. Es gibt auch Content, nicht nur Essen so, ja. Content für Magen und Kopf so. Und zwar haben wir einen Talk, den es ansonsten bei der Programmiercon gibt für euch quasi als Preview auf die Konferenz und zwar von Tobi, der hier bei uns im BI Team Der wird einen Talk halten über KI Bilder Upscaling und wie das so funktioniert und wie man das am besten betreiben kann. Das wird, glaub ich, auch ganz cool. Da haben wir ja schon, Fabi war da, glaub ich, auch son bisschen mit involviert, was wir hier bei Lotum alles gelernt haben. Und da gibt's, glaub ich, 'n paar coole Insights und Sachen, die man zu Hause nachprobieren kann sozusagen. Deshalb rechtzeitig anmelden unter Programmierpunkt bar, die Anmeldung ist schon da, wählt euch zum Meetup, könnt euch anmelden und dann wissen wir auch, wie viele Burger Fabi vorbestellen muss. Sieht's aus. So. Und natürlich darf auch nicht fehlen der obligatorische Hinweis, die Programmiercon fünfundzwanzigster sechsundzwanzigster November. Wir sind im letzten Drittel der Tickets angekommen, so. Und das ist nur noch eine Frage der Zeit, bis hier ausverkauft ist. Von daher, wer jetzt noch keins hat, sollte sich vielleicht beeilen. Wir freuen uns, wenn's schwierig werden. Wir freuen uns, falls ausverkauft wird, gibt's auch Nachtisch. Was heißt denn hier, falz? Also wir gehen ja schon davon aus, dass Auswirkungen Sobald es, sobald. Also warte, also es gibt Nachtisch, das ist die Aussage eigentlich. Wenn? Ja, aber das ist doch eine Okay. Also ich hab das Catering angeboten, hab gesehen, son Nachtisch würde sich lohnen, wenn wir den mitbestellen, Find ich Oh. Würde es geben? Nein. Okay. Und Dave gibt sein Ticket wieder ab. Genau. Ich bin nicht dabei bei der Konferenz. Meinte, wir schaffen's eigentlich nur noch 10 Minuten auch noch zu Inhalten zu kommen? Nein. Doch, ich wollt ja grade den Übergang schon zu Dave machen. Kurzteste Folge wird heute. Kurzteste Folge ever. Ja. Besonders intim. Oh Gott. Dave, erzähl uns, was zu Paskies. Los geht's. Oh, der fing noch an. Ah, let's go. Last. Nee, genau. Passkis, ich weiß nicht, das habt ihr natürlich auf all euren Informations News Channel mitbekommen. Große Schlagwellen, was Passkis angeht. Sind komplett rib, wurden jetzt gehackt, nicht mehr sicher, alles geht den Bach runter. Man kann jetzt nicht mehr nutzen, hat eine Hast Du nicht mitbekommen. Hat eine hat eine Forschungsgruppe herausgefunden. Ah, ja. Sehr gut. Nee, aber ist tatsächlich so, wenn man jetzt geknackt oder, also 'n, man denkt an Nudeln, aber es ist eher gemein von Dingen, pasta key, pasta key, als Angriff auf, War jetzt relativ groß überall, aber ehrlicherweise, ich hab mal reingeschaut und man muss sagen, ganz so schlimm steht es die jetzt nicht. Vielleicht erst mal so als Kurz anfangen, was sind. Vielleicht auch erst mal generell hier der Hinweis, wir haben auch 'n Deep Dive zu. Kann man, glaub ich, sehr gut an der Stelle anbringen mit der Martina Kraus. Da reden wir über. Coole Folge, gerne reinhören. Auch Werbung für die Programmiercon an der Stelle, weil Martina wird auch da sein auf der Programmiercon. Von daher direkt den Doppelklick über Passkys sprechen auch. Oh, okay, sehr gut. Also das ist das ist dreifach passend. Genau. Und zwar, Passkys gelten eigentlich als sehr sicher und eigentlich als der neue, moderne Standard, ne. Das das funktioniert so, Du hast auf dem Server hast Du einen öffentlichen Key, den kennt der Server. Und der fragt dann dich lokal auf deinem Gerät so, hey, was ist denn hier jetzt die passende Antwort und Du hast 'n privaten Key auf deinem Gerät. So, und dann kannst Du dich darüber authentifizieren und hast seine Signatur dahinter und zack, bam bist Du eingeloggt. Und dieses Verfahren gilt als sehr sicher, ne, weil Passwörter können abgegriffen werden. Da ist jetzt etwas so, es braucht diesen öffentlichen Key und den privaten Key, den es nur auf deinem Gerät gibt. So, und was jetzt diese Forschungsgruppe herausgefunden hat, ist nicht, dass per se unsicher sind, sondern man konnte etwas ganz Bestimmtes ausnutzen. Und zwar lag es, wenn man einen Windows PC in Kombination mit diesem Google Passwort Manager gehabt hat, weil das eine Schnittstelle war von diesem Google Passwort Manager, damit das halt synchron auf all deinen Geräten ist, ne. Du hast es irgendwie auf deinem Handy, dann hast Du's noch auf irgendwie deinem Rechner und möchtest das synchron halten. Und da ist das Problem, dass man das, sobald Malware auf deinem Computer schon da war, ne, das heißt also eigentlich, 'n Angreifer hat kompletten Zugriff auf deinen Rechner, dann konnte er die an der Stelle abgreifen. Das war halt auch in dieser speziellen Kombination nur möglich, weil beispielsweise aufm Mac wird das auf sonem bestimmten, ich glaub, tmp heißt es, Plattform abgespeichert. Das ist 'n spezieller Chip, wo halt quasi gar nicht dran gekommen werden kann. So, das ist dann aber auch nur lokal auf dem Gerät verfügbar. Und warum das jetzt passieren konnte, war halt einfach, weil diese Synchronisation zwischen diesen verschiedenen Plattformen möglich war. Und dadurch konnte man da, zwischen diesen verschiedenen Plattformen möglich war. Und dadurch konnte man da diese Passies abgreifen, kopieren und dann halt quasi sich selbst damit einloggen auf verschiedenen Plattformen. Von daher, ihr habt das vielleicht 'n bisschen erkannt an dem, was ich gesagt habe. Der der Rechner in diesem Szenario war schon von Malware betroffen. Das heißt, Du eigentlich war der komplette Zugriff schon gegeben und dann konnten die Gaskeys abgegriffen werden, wenn das halt über diesen Google Plattform Manager, Passwort Manager drangegangen wurde. Von daher ist es eigentlich 'n bisschen ein sehr seltsames Szenario. Ich hab nach 'nem passenden Vergleich dafür gesucht, mir ist son Burgenszenario eingefallen. Also quasi, Du bist schon, also die Feinde sind schon in der Burg drin und lassen die Brücke runter. Und dann sagst Du, na ja, der Graben war jetzt nicht so hilfreich bei der Verteidigung. Also das ist irgendwie son bisschen 'n hinfälliger Vergleich an der Stelle. Genau, deswegen, also Paskies sind weiterhin sicher an der Stelle, glaub ich. Es ist ist wichtig zu erwähnen, also die wurden nicht wirklich geknackt. Vielleicht, was man da auch an der Stelle noch sagen können, das hat Martina auch empfohlen, dass man son lokales Gerät hat, also irgendwie son Stick, worauf seine Passkys gespeichert ist, sind und den halt immer mitnimmt und nicht, dass er's halt irgendwie synchronisiert in der Cloud ist oder so, sondern immer ein lokales Gerät an der Stelle parat hat. Ja. Ist eine Voraussetzung für, dass da immer son biometrischer Teil irgendwie oder son Teil dabei ist, dass es irgendwo abgesichert liegt und man nur durch beispielsweise Biometrie wieder drankommt? Durch Finger oder Face ID oder so was, ne? Ja, ich glaub, das ist so son Klassiker. Ich glaub, das ist Ja, bei bei bei kommt's jetzt aufm iPhone ja auch mit dem mit dem Passwort dran. Da brauchst Du keine Biometrie. Also nee, das ist keine Bedingung. Ach nee, glaub ich, das, was man so am häufigsten kennt tatsächlich so. Also es Es gab keine Bedingung, aber und, nee, daher kommt dann auch das Synchronisieren, ne. Also ich mein, wenn's dann in, ist wahrscheinlich auch wieder ein 1 der Tools, wo synchronisiert ist. Genau, aber deswegen ist ja die Frage, also gab's dann irgend 'n Patch für Google Authenticator oder ist es Google Authenticator oder Passwortmanager dafür? Also also ist diese Lücke immer noch offen? Die sollte, glaub ich, immer noch offen sein, weil das halt quasi per se also gewollt ist. Also Lücke ist aber auch hier in Anführungszeichen zu setzen, weil die halt immer noch diese Synchronisation haben wollen. Und solang diese Synchronisation besteht, ist da halt noch diese Lücke. Ich weiß nicht, ob die jetzt noch was da machen werden, aber aktuell Das heißt, wenn wir grade das Waldbüro one Passwort hatten, ist es denn da dann auch theoretisch die Lücke? Genau, das wär dann auch da, bei bei dem wär das genau die Lücke auch, solang das über Geräte synchronisiert wird und diese Schnittstelle dann halt verfügbar ist. Ja, also wenn Du, das würde genauso bedeuten, wenn Du Zugriff auf one Passwort hast durch irgendeine Genau. Netzwerke, dann hast Du auch Zugriff auf die Passkeys. Genau. Deswegen dieses Szenario war ja auch so, ne, die Malware. Also Du bist schon, also Du hast die voll volle Kontrolle über das Gerät. Ja. So, das ist ja das Szenario. Deswegen ist es son bisschen hanebüchen an der Stelle. Clickbait. Okay. So, deswegen, also weiterhin, sind sicher. Let's go. Okay. Ganz ohne. Wo warst Du grade, Jan? Du hast gerade mit dem Kopf geschüttelt und musst erst mal nach Luft schnappen. Ich hatte grade son Übergang im Kopf und dann muss man den wieder verwerfen und man darf ja auch nicht alles sagen, was man denkt. Deswegen einfach, Dennis wollte uns was zu AI Plattformen und Infrastrukturanbietern erzählen und hat gleich 2 Themen mitgebracht, so. Echt? Verstößt hier gegen unsere Regel, ne. Ein Host, ein Thema, aber wir Ja, dafür mach ich, pass auf. Dafür mach ich 1 davon in in 2 Sätzen. Echt? Ich bin gespannt. Okay. Stripe ist ein Zahlungsanbieter, den man aus dem Internet kennt, weil dort ganz viele Rechnungen und so was drüber laufen. Und die sollen wohl, das ist ein Gerücht noch nicht bestätigt, Open Router übernehmen. Ein KI Start-up, das dafür zuständig ist, gesammelt, Zugänge und Abrechnung für KI Anbieter zu leisten. Das war Einsatz. Das war Einsatz mit sehr vielen Komma und Kollektionen, aber aber lassen Sie mal gelten. Ja, so und der 2. Ist jetzt, man munkelt, es sind 7000000000 Dollar, die dafür bezahlt werden sollen. Und der Open Router CEO hat damals auch halt irgendwie sein Tool als Stripe für KI bezeichnet. Vielleicht hat das bei Stripe geklingelt und gesagt, oh, das sollte unser Tool sein. Aber trotzdem natürlich sicher interessant, dass son Zahlungsanbieter, der bis jetzt wenig mit KI zu tun hat, sich da jetzt so positioniert und dann irgendwie der, ja, der der der Verkaufshahn für Tokens auch in der Zukunft sein soll. Aber ist das alles gehört. Gibt's dazu einfach irgend 'n bisschen Kontext so, warum Sie das Ganze machen? Es passt ja wirklich nicht so ganz so, also man munkelt so, bis das einfach Ich find, das passt voll. Na ja, also genau, es hier steht halt son bisschen, ne, ne, kann halt einfach Riesenmengen so an Abwicklung von latenz- und verfügbarkeitskritischen Abrechnungen und so was einfach sehr, sehr gut und haben halt die Zahlungsinfrastruktur. Und von daher, ist ja letztendlich auch nur so ein auch nur so ein Gateway zu verschiedensten Modellen und Anbietern, wo Geld und Zahlung ein sehr wichtiger Aspekt sind. Und von daher, ja, kann man sich, glaub ich, schon das irgendwie ganz gut vorstellen. Also Stripe hat einfach das Gateway Playbook erfunden, so, ja? Du kannst irgendwie mit 200 verschiedenen Zahlungsdienstleistern zusammenarbeiten, musst nur mit 1 API reden und irgendjemand anderes kümmert sich darum, dass die Kunden schon beim richtigen Payment Provider landen, so. Das ist halt genau dasselbe wie Open Router. Also Du bindest eine API an, Du konfigurierst son bisschen im Backend. Ist es mir wichtig, dass weiß ich nicht, ne? Besonders schwierige Anfragen bei diesem Model landen, besonders einfache bei diesem Model. Anfragen aus China dürfen nur von chinesischen Models beantwortet werden. Anfragen aus Amerika können von beantwortet werden, europäische vielleicht nicht, keine Ahnung, whatever so. Ja, das haben die, also das das können die halt einfach schon, so. Fertig. Fertig. Das war meine Zeit. Jetzt habt ihr das jetzt habt ihr das Größer gemacht als ich wollte, das Thema. Was ja sonst nie passiert, ne? Weil wir können einfach 2 Sätze zum Thema sagen und dann kommt das nächste. Also das wär ja Genau, genau. Das kommt man ja nicht zum ruhig an Fragen stellen, dass dass da irgendwie eine 1 Unterhaltung dafür entsteht. Schön, dass ihr darauf eingegangen seid. Vielen Dank für den weiteren Kontext. Nächstes Thema, Mistral. Ist ja 1 der Anbieter, die wir immer mal wieder ganz gerne erwähnen, weil es eben ein europäischer Anbieter ist und 1 von den wenigen, die auch einige große Modelle trainiert haben und die auch immer mal wieder hier getestet wurden, wie weit sie damit mittlerweile sind. Und da gibt es ganz interessante Änderungen, weil sie sich ein bisschen öffnen und praktisch so der Vorreiter sein wollen für Europas KI Infrastruktur. Also nicht mehr zwangsweise die Modelle nur noch bereitzustellen, sondern es geht vor allen Dingen Rechenkapazität. Und da ist es zum einen so, dass Sie Partner jetzt gesucht haben, die sehr langfristig Rechenkapazität dort kaufen und einfach sich sehr lange committen, damit diese Infrastruktur überhaupt dann erstellt werden kann und damit man halt absehen kann, okay, das ist das, was wir an konkreten Zusagen haben. Und da sind, keine Ahnung, Capgemini, Amadeus, also 'n paar größere Firmen so, die in Europa auch viel unterwegs sind, sind mit dabei. Und unter anderem auch Microsoft, die auch zugesichert haben über ja, also 1000000000 schwere Partnerschaft. Wie viele Milliarden weiß man jetzt nicht, aber die da auch dann verbraucht werden sollen auf der Infrastruktur von Mysteral. Und genau, das heißt, Mistral nannte so als Ziele, dass bis Ende 2027 die europäische Rechenkapazität auf 200 Megawatt wachsen soll. Wusste auch nicht, dass man das mittlerweile einfach nur nur in Stromverbrauch ausdrückt irgendwie, wie viel das ist. Ist das schon häufiger? Weiß nicht, ist das schon länger der Standard? Na ja, auf jeden Fall aktuell haben sie da schon ein Rechenzentrum mit 44 Megawatt, was sie grade aufbauen, wofür sie schon 830000000 Dollar Schulden erst mal aufnehmen mussten. Also ist einfach sehr viel Geld, was da mit dem Spiel ist und das überhaupt machen zu können. Und dafür das Geld zu bekommen, sind eben diese Partnerschaften nötig. Und ja, dann ist eben das das das Spannende, also dass man dann eben bei Misstrauen sagen kann, hey, ich möchte die über euch kaufen und ich möchte halt sicherstellen, dass das einfach auf europäischer Hardware läuft und man wird es dann auch noch zusätzlich sagen können, es soll ausschließlich eben auf Hardware von misstral laufen und nicht mehr auch auf anderen rechtensenden großen, rechtensenden großer Cloud Anbieter, die's in Europa gibt, was im Moment bei Mysteral Modellen auch noch so sein kann. Und was dann damit einhergeht, dass Mysteral nicht mehr wie bisher nur ihre eigenen Modelle im Angebot hat, sondern sich jetzt eben auch öffnet und einzelne externe Modelle anbietet, die dann über die gleiche Infrastruktur zu haben sind. Aktuell ist nur ein einziges Modell, Open Way Modell, nämlich das GLM 5 Punkt 2 dort verfügbar, aber das werden dann eben in der Zukunft auch mehr werden. Also tatsächlich einfach mehr Infrastruktur und nicht mehr nur eigene Modelle entwickeln. Das waren jetzt mehr als 2 Sätze. Ja, das hab ich Heute auf den Fragen haben wir nicht versprochen. Genau. Mal beschlossen. Durch. Immer fertig. Okay. Wunderbar. Dave hat doch eine Frage. Ich ich hab nur überlegt, Du hast auch Microsoft erwähnt, oder? Mhm. Die da investieren. Mhm. Ich frag mich halt nur von wegen, also wenn wenn jetzt trotzdem ein US amerikanisches Unternehmen da ja investiert, was das für Implikationen hat, von wegen, hey, wir sind jetzt hier komplett in der EU und so was alles? Also was sich dann bei Microsoft an der Stelle verspricht? Solange sie erst mal nur das Geld bereitstellen, ist, glaub ich, dass erst mal aus dieser Sicht von, ne, was liegt hier und wie souverän sind wir irgendwie in dem Umgang damit? Ist es relativ unkompliziert. Man muss ja schon auch sagen, dass Microsoft durch diesen Business- und Konzer Zusammenhang ja schon auch viel in die Richtung gemacht hat, ne. Also ich mein, die sind mit Azure, glaub ich, so auch immer die Vorreiter gewesen, wo man sagt, das ist alles in Europa und das gibt die eigene Cloud und das alles nur für euch und so Also die haben einfach viele, viele Businesskunden, die sehr interessiert daran sind und die von den Richtlinien halt brauchen, dass die Daten in den EU liegen. Und ich glaube, das ist das Interesse, warum Microsoft da sagt, okay, da wollen wir auch mit investieren, dass dass diese Möglichkeiten dort gibt. Und wahrscheinlich auch 1 der wenigen Player, die so bereit wären, ihre eigenen profitären Modelle son bisschen aus der Hand zu geben und woanders gehostet zu lassen, eben genau diese Kunden halt irgendwie zu bedienen, ne. Also ich kann mir vorstellen, dass Microsoft seine Modelle dahergibt, aber halt Open AI nicht so, ne. Mhm. Und deswegen ist da vielleicht auch schon mal gut, son halben Fuß in der Tür zu haben. Alright. Wenn wir schon von großen Labs sprechen oder kleineren Labs, weiß nicht. Fabi, was gibt's von DeepSyk? DeepSyk hat ein Agenthanness rausgebracht und wenn man auf die Homepage geht, schreiben wir von, als son bisschen das Verkaufsargument da hintendran. Aber es gibt, glaub ich, 'n paar Punkte, warum das interessant ist, ne. Also ich mein, Harnes ist ja sozusagen für alle, die denen's immer noch kein Begriff ist, sozusagen ist ja das LLM, das Modell ist die Intelligenz und Harnes sozusagen alles drum herum, also irgendwie der Agent Loop, wie die Modelle aufrufen, die Tools, das System prompt, Kontext Management und so weiter. Also Cloud Code ist 'n Harnes, Codex ist 'n Harnes und so weiter. Gibt auch einige Open Source und jetzt Deepseak hat eben so eigene Harnes rausgebracht und genau, also eine einerseits ist so, was meinen Sie mit? Damit meinen Sie wirklich, alles ist ein Plug in. Also als Beispiel, weil Cloud Code, was wir haben ja, was haben wir für Anbindung? MCP zum Beispiel als Service, verschiedene verschiedene proprietäre Plug ins, aber zum Beispiel, der Agent Loop ist fix, so. Also der ist halt in Cloud Code mit reingebacken so. Das hat halt in Shopic einem entschieden, wie funktioniert der Agent Loop? Aber zum Beispiel beim Hannes von Deepsek ist auch der Agent Loop selbst ein Plug in. Also alles, was aufgerufen wird, ist ist kompositionierbar und austauschbar und selbst der Agent Loop ist ist austauschbar. Und ich glaub, das ist auf jeden Fall ein ganz interessanter Teil daran, ob das jetzt wirklich gut ist oder irgendwie gebraucht wird, darüber scheint, darüber ist auf jeden Fall sich die Community, würd ich sagen, auch noch nicht so ganz einig darüber. Also die einen sagen halt so, hey, also das ist das das ist das neue Framework Framework so und das wird auf jeden Fall der neue Standard werden. Und so sollte, weil ja auch grade der Agent selbst auch die Plug ins Schreiben könnte, austauschen könnte, weil's auch zum Beispiel so ist, dass es ausgetauscht werden kann, nicht wie wie bei VS Code, wenn eine Extension irgendwie gewechselt wird, dass dann der Host gestaltet werden muss, sondern es kann zur Laufzeit gemacht werden, jedes Plug in irgendwie ausgetauscht. Bringt natürlich auch 'n bisschen mit sich, weil's 'n bisschen komplizierter ist, als irgendwie eine MTP zu restaten, aber ist grundsätzlich möglich. Aber es braucht natürlich auch viel mehr Konfiguration, ne. Also man muss eben darum Gedanken machen und ist halt die Frage, ob dieses, wenn es nicht mehr so richtig Plug and play ist, ob der Markt dafür groß genug ist. Aber ich denk, das wird jetzt die Zukunft son bisschen zeigen. Ich mein, das Schöne ist, Deep Sick ist natürlich auch komplett modelagnostisch, also was man da irgendwie wählt, kann man komplett entscheiden. Die haben's natürlich son bisschen aufgesetzt, dass per Default man relativ einfach da die Deep Sick App hier irgendwie anbinden kann, aber es ist komplett offen. Und grade auch, was offen angeht, glaub ich, der 2. Punkt, der ganz interessant ist, dass es einen Session Log gibt. Also alles, was das Modell sieht, landet in einem Session Log, also System prompt, zu Riesening Schritte, Tool Calls, Contact Injection. Und so kann sich im Grunde genommen alle Sessions derzeit lassen, durchsuchen und auch replain lassen. Und das ist ja eigentlich sozusagen der spannendste Kontrast zum Rest vom Markt. Also mittlerweile zeigt ja noch Zusammengefasste statt roher Reasoning Traces und so. Und sie sagen ja, die Begründung da hinten dran ist, die Destillation zu erschweren so, aber Deep Sieg macht ja genau das Gegenteil und legt alles offen. Und das ist natürlich für Debugging, für das Verständnis, warum 'n Agent irgendwas getan hat, auf jeden Fall Gold wert. Und ich glaub, das sind so die beiden interessanten Dinge. Ansonsten probiert's einfach gerne mal aus. Ich glaub, es ist noch halt ziemlich so. Also einige schreiben auch, die Dokumentation liest sich son bisschen wie son Wortsalat irgendwie und ist irgendwie, teilweise merkt man vielleicht auch einiges irgendwie von ri geschrieben und nicht ganz so klar, aber ist supereinfach auszuprobieren, per NPX einfach installierbar. Dann kann man mal ausprobieren, aber viele sagen auch, gibt dem Ganzen noch mal 'n paar Monate, ist MIT lizenziert, Open Source. Klingt auf jeden Fall ganz interessant und Deep SEK ja auch ein großer Player da im Markt. Mhm. Du hast Du hast grade gesagt, alles ist 'n Plug in. Kommt das aber auch mit irgendwie so was Vorgefertigten? Also dass Du sagst, okay, Du hast das ist ja so die vorher Sachen. Zum Beispiel Agent Loop, es gibt ein Agent Loop Plug in, was da mit drin ist. Und Du hast ansonsten einfach auch sone Art Plug in Marketplace und so. Mhm. Und ist auf jeden Fall was Vorgefertigtes. Die haben natürlich was mitgebracht und gibt auch irgendwie verschiedene Modi, aber da war ich jetzt gar nicht so ganz drin. Aber natürlich, also und alles gibt's da grundsätzlich noch viele. Ja. Wenn Du aber gut, dass Du mal den den Marketplace erwähnt hast, weil das ist natürlich dann sehr spannend, wenn Du auch die Community daran auch teilhaben kann. Schon ganz gut. Ja, auf der einen Seite würd ich mir wünschen, dass sich das durchsetzt, weil ich glaub, den architektonischen Ansatz find ich schon irgendwie cool. Und ich kann mir sone Zukunft vorstellen, wo Du, ne, Du holst dir irgendwie den Memorylayer von Open Code und Du holst dir aber den Loop von Codex und hast Du alles nicht gesehen. Aber gleichzeitig profitieren ja diese ganzen profitären Harnisse grade davon, dass sie halt 'n sehr gutes Pricing dir irgendwie anbieten können, ja? Also wenn Du halt Cloud Code nutzt und dein Subscription Pricing dann nutzen kannst, ist es halt was anderes, als wenn ich jetzt DeepC Hannes nutzt und direkt im API Pricing irgendwie drinsteck und jeden Token direkt 1 zu 1 bezahlen muss so. Da bin ich mal gespannt, weil da hab ich immer noch son bisschen Respekt vor, einfach alles direkt über die API laufen zu lassen. Ja, und ich mein, der Punkt wie gesagt kommt am Ende auch dazu, so, ne. Also ist halt die Frage, willst Du überhaupt deinen, also wie viele Leute wollen wirklich den Agent Loop und das Plug in irgendwie austauschen? Aber ja, auf jeden Fall Pricing ist, glaub ich, 'n großer Punkt. Ich will, mal schauen, wo's hingeht und ob sich vielleicht auch die anderen Anbieter irgendwie mehr daran orientieren und wir vielleicht son Plug in basiertes System und der Agent Duop ist austauschbar vielleicht auch woanders sehen werden. Moment. Dennis, Du warst auch Kitesurfen, aber heute darf Fabi über Kitesurfen reden. Ja, beziehungsweise Dennis war ja Kitesurfen. Wir wollen ja eigentlich die ganze Zeit noch mal zusammen Kitesurfen gehen, ne. Also zumindest Ja. Können wir jetzt hier zusammen über Kitesurf reden, der das von Cloudflyer ist. Das und zwar ein Browser, der nicht für Menschen gebaut ist, sondern für AI Agenten. Und son bisschen die Problemstellung, die Cloudflyer son bisschen aufgemacht hat, ich glaub, man kennt's ja mittlerweile so, ne. Also ich mein, wie viel Browser Use haben wir alleine in unseren Gentican ist das irgendwie drin und das Ganze natürlich auch, hat das funktionieren. Auch Cloudflight hat das Ganze gesehen, also die haben ja ihre, ah, ich weiß grad gar nicht, Browser, glaub ich, ihr Produkt, was auch von Agenten genutzt wird, sozusagen in ihren Workers irgendwie Zugriff auf Browser zu haben. Und was sie grundsätzlich sehen, ist halt meistens irgendwie, also der bisher Standard ist irgendwie Puppete, also irgendwas Chromium Basiertes. Und wenn man sich das Ganze da anschaut, ist ein großes Problem, dass es halt super memtensiv ist, weil natürlich alles, was da irgendwie mitkommt, eigentlich für den Menschen gedacht ist. Und memoryintensität ist sozusagen das Problem, dass es am Ende halt superteuer wird, ne. Wenn am Ende sagt, Du willst jedem Agent da irgendwas geben, so ist es am Ende das, was am was auf der Rechnung steht, so, wenn Du irgendwie superviel Browser Run nutzt. Und sie wurden inspiriert für Kitesurf von, da haben sie auch in ihrem Blogbeitrag son bisschen gezeigt, so wie dann die ISED zustande kam. Da ging's wirklich so, sie waren inspiriert von obscurer, was im Grunde genommen auch schon eine ist für Agenten. Der der der jetzt geschrieben hat, auch darauf dann reagiert. Wie gesagt, er ist übrigens 16, er fühlt sich sehr geehrt, das Cloudflair sich von ihm hat inspirieren lassen. Was ist das? Ich glaube, 2 Unterschiede gibt's da, wenn man sich auf die Technik schaut. Obscurer nutzt weiterhin v 8 als Engine, was natürlich auch wieder sehr viel näher an irgendwie Chromium und so was dran ist und auf jeden Fall memtensiver ist. Und das hat das hat Cloudflyer an der Stelle verändert. Also sie nutzen nicht v 8, sie nutzen zwar die v 8 Engine für die Worker, aber der Browserrun selbst nicht. Der nutzt Blitz für HTML und CSS, Stylo für die CSS Engine und boa als JavaScript Engine und setzen im Grunde genommen da nicht auf v 8, was was es dazu bringt mit. Also Geschwindigkeit, wenn man mal guckt son Page Load, da sind sie eigentlich nicht wirklich schneller als Chromium. Wo sie dann halt besser sind, ist eben bei dem. Also irgendwie, wenn man mal sagt, der RAM für 'n Screenshot und HTML Extraktion, haben sie fünf- bis siebenmal weniger, son Chromium Water für b für eine HTML nur 40. Und das macht's natürlich auf jeden Fall superinteressant, weil sie einfach, sie nutzen jetzt innerhalb von Browser Run, das Ganze zu machen und funktioniert wohl auch schon ziemlich gut. Und genau, der eine Punkt ist die Engine, aber der andere Punkt ist, und das macht, glaub ich, auch noch 'n bisschen produktmäßig der Unterschied obscurer, das wär to obscure, ne, also 'n bisschen, die wollen was verschleiern, hat im Endeffekt auch sonen, weil 'n bisschen ihr Ziel auch ist, so Agenten werden ja häufig von irgendwelchen Seiten einfach geblockt, so, ne. Und sie dürfen auf irgendwelchen Konto nicht zugreifen. Und das Ziel von Obscurals auch son bisschen, dass am Ende die Agenten doch auf alles zugreifen können und probieren halt, was zu bauen, wo sie doch am Ende da drum rumkommen. Und Cloudflair will ja genau das nicht, weil im Grunde genommen sind sie ja, wenn man sagt, sie sind ja eigentlich die Tür, die sie verkaufen als Produkte, eigentlich die Tür zu sagen, hey, hier können Bots nicht reinkommen. Und was sie natürlich nicht wollen, ist am Ende einen Headless Browser, der das Ganze umgeht. Das heißt, sie stellen jetzt hier 'n Produkt hin, der das Ganze natürlich nicht kann. Also die das ist auch gar nicht ihr Ziel so. Also der wir können weiterhin nur das, was was im Grunde genommen auch mit 'nem normalen Browser zu tun ist, sondern ihr ist also, sind auf jeden Fall die Kosten und vielleicht auch 'n bisschen proaktiv, lass mal lieber selbst was hinstellen, was gut funktioniert, bevor irgendwas anderes dahin kommt, was unser Produkt, die Tür am Ende schädigt. Aber wenn Du von Kosten sprichst, sprichst Du nur von Infrastrukturkosten, ne. Also die Laufzeitkosten, die quasi bei Cloudflare anfallen für den Betrieb von dem Browser, weil Du Memory Footprint ja erwähnt hast. Es geht jetzt nicht darum, dass der Render State oder so was, den dieser Browser erzeugt hat, irgendwie auch effektiver ist, für ein LLM zu lesen oder so, weil sie das HTML verschlanken oder unnötige CSS Regeln rausschmeißen oder so was. Da machen sie gar nix. Also da gehen sie zumindest bisher noch nicht so wirklich drauf ein, sondern also ich mein, die Sachen, wie am Ende dann auch irgendwie gegeben wird, zu HML Extractions, es werden Screenshots gemacht, können PDFs generiert werden. Aber so das Hauptding ist wirklich, sie sagen am Ende das, was sie verkaufen, ist die Kosten, die am Ende auf deiner Rechnung stehen. Also so, dass im Endeffekt Browser Run halt sehr viel günstiger wird dadurch. Okay. Na ja, es ist so, hohe Randpreise sorgen dafür, dass Software wieder effizienter wird. Ja, schlau. Dennis und Fabi, ihr seid doch auch hier Kitesurfer. Kitesurfer. Kitesurfer, vor allem Kitesurfer, aber auch Arc User. Nein. Und nicht mehr, Fabi? Nein. Aber eine Zeit lang gewesen, richtig? Ja. Und die Browser Company, die die ja Arc gemacht haben, die haben doch auch son zweiten Browser angekündigt, wo's Ja, Dia, genau da irgendwie, ich hab jetzt im Kopf, dass es Sehr schön. Geborene ich jetzt mit, den gibt's ja und geht da auch in eine ähnliche Richtung oder ist es grade was Na ja, also Browsercomedy wurde ja von der Gläschen übernommen, ne, also Genau. So, ich weiß gar nicht, ich hab das seitdem nicht mehr verfolgt irgendwie. Für mich wurd das immer uninteressanter. Und also ist ja auf jeden Fall nicht mehr aktiv weiterentwickelt, ne. Genau. Es gibt nur Sicherheit Updates. Ja. Okay, aber also also nein, das war was anderes. Okay, dir aber auch nicht sag ich, nee, dir sollte für den dir sollte für den Menschen der AI genau. Und der AI nutzt der Browser sein, das Internet zu navigieren. Okay, also Für Agents oder? Genau, ich für Agents. Okay, alles klar, aber die Abgrenzung. Wunderbar, wunderbar. Dennis und ich sind keine Citesurfer. Also, die Hälfte Na ja, wo wir doch 'n Halt Oh, ja, sorry. Ihr seid auch nicht ihr seid auch nicht Doppel d. Ja, man. Aber wir haben beide Wie wir's mit mit wie Du uns? Sorry. Ja. Oh Gott. Wie hast Du jetzt jede News Folge hier? Ja, man. Aber wir haben beide Wie wir mit Blogpost gelesen. Wow. Das war den ein Blogpost von Startout Dev, das ist son, ah, ich wollt nicht Coding Bootcamp sagen, aber die machen halt schon so Coding Tutorials und und so was gegen Geld. Und die haben einen Blogpost darüber veröffentlicht, wie wichtig oder unwichtig denn Coding Interviews in Zukunft sein werden. Jetzt kann man denen natürlich einen gewissen Standpunkt unterstellen, weil sie halt aus dem Educational Space kommen und den Leuten Coding beibringen wollen. Darum geht's aber auch gar nicht so, wo die herkommen, sondern das war für uns mal son bisschen anders, darüber nachzudenken, so ja, Coding Interviews. Braucht man das noch? Ist das Kunst oder kann das weg, so ungefähr, ja? Und ich find, dieser Artikel hat son paar interessante Punkte aufgemacht. Also zum einen sprechen Sie natürlich über Ihre eigene Erfahrung auch im Umgang mit mit großen Companys, wo Sie natürlich durch Ihre Ihre Absolventen quasi Insights bekommen, ja? Wie läuft grade Hiring bei bei Meta, bei, bei. Und sie berichten da schon von sehr, wie wie wie soll ich sagen, von von sehr harten Coding Interviews, wo viel Handarbeit gefragt ist ohne AI Input sozusagen, ja. Und und das war ja, wir haben ja auch eine Folge aufgenommen, Dave und ich, die kommt am ersten September. September. Was? Erster. Erster September, die Folge mit Professor Olaf Verden von der DHBW, wo wir auch son bisschen über Informatik, Studium und Ausbildung und so was gesprochen haben. Und deswegen ist das vielleicht hier 'n cooler Übergang, Vorgeschmack dazu schon mal so. Was wird halt irgendwie heute alles noch gebraucht so? Dennis, was war dein erster Takeaway von dem Artikel? Also was ich da vielleicht noch mal kurz herausstellen möchte, weil Sie kritisieren ja son bisschen oder Sie sagen, es gibt diese es gibt diesen Unterschied zwischen dem, was man so auf Social Media sieht und was irgendwie überall gepostet wird. Und da steht halt so, ne, ja, okay, Coding ist irgendwie tot und Du brauchst das nicht mehr. Und ihrer gefühlten Realität, zumindest was den aktuellen Jobmarkt angeht, dass es dort in den Interviews sogar vielleicht eher mehr gefragt ist, als es in der Vergangenheit war, ne. Also erst mal diese diese Diskrepanz irgendwie son bisschen darzustellen. Und ich muss ganz ehrlich sagen, ich ich fand den super supergut, weil er eigentlich all so, also ich geh da komplett mit so, mit all den Takes, die irgendwie da sind, dass man am Ende so zusammengefasst, eigentlich hat sich nicht so wahnsinnig viel bis jetzt geändert an der dem Typ und der Art von Leuten, die man gerne einstellen möchte. Weil man irgendwie die gleichen Eigenschaften, die halt 'n Entwickler vorher ausgemacht haben und die gleichen Kenntnisse, die man auch vorher fürs Coding gebraucht hat, ähnlich sind, jetzt im Moment oder jetzt auch zukünftig Produkte umzusetzen. So und das heißt, ne, diese diese Abstraktionsebene, die wir uns kümmern, dass die sich 'n bisschen verschoben hat. Aber ja, das Aber ich find's trotzdem, ich hab die Folge ja noch nicht gehört, die aufgenommen noch mal mit dem ersten September, aber trotzdem denk ich, ja, das kannst Du vielleicht jetzt grade dann noch machen, diese Coding Interviews, weil Du halt auch noch die Leute einschätzen und Du jetzt nicht die Juniors einstellst, die im Grunde genommen das Handwerk gelernt haben und das ist immer noch ein guter Indikator, die richtigen Leute einzustellen. So, aber wenn Du jetzt trotzdem mal irgendwie 5 10 Jahre in die Zukunft blickst, es hat trotzdem noch die Frage, warum lernst Du denn dann das Handwerk nur, zu beweisen, dass Du dieser Typus bist? Oder ist es am Ende wirklich noch das, was Du brauchst und was man dann auch irgendwie nachfragt? Also es, wie wie also haben Sie dazu irgendwie Stellung bezogen? Ist das ein Status quo Ding so und Sie glauben nicht, dass es in Zukunft so sein wird? Also ich geh, ja, mir ist auch immer wieder auch. Das war ein interessanter Teil von dem Artikel, über den ich auch gestolpert bin, Fabio, weil das, was Du sagst, versuchen Sie in dem Blogpost son bisschen abzufrühstücken mit wie, ja, the Interview, was never about, righting code so, ja? Kann man schon mal mit Vorsicht genießen son Satz, aber sie sagen halt, na ja, die eigentliche Aufgabe des Interviews, ne, ist ja nicht irgendwie zu gucken, ob Du jetzt gut, weiß ich nicht, type Script schreiben kannst oder so. Deshalb ist ja in den meisten Coding Interviews auch vollkommen egal, in welcher Sprache Du schreibst, so, ja. Sondern es geht halt darum, dein dein dein Denkprozess quasi zu erleben, ja. Irgendwie zu sehen, okay, wie näherst Du dich der Lösung? Wie teilst Du das Problem auf? Wie findest Du irgendwie kleine Schritte? Wie gehst Du da ran? Wie iterierst Du darüber et cetera, et cetera? Und da hab ich mir auch gedacht so, ja, das ist ja jetzt grade auch noch praktikabel, ja? Also selbst, ob ich jetzt AI nutz oder nicht, ich muss ja irgendwie meistens selber noch irgendwann das das Problem parsen oder so, ja. Aber gleichzeitig gibt's ja schon immer mehr Use Cases, immer mehr Menschen, die auch diesen Teil irgendwie auslagern an AI, ja. Wo wo quasi selbst so das das Zerschneiden von dem Problem irgendwie schon weggegeben wird, weil Du halt deinem Model nur sagst, ja, das ist das Feature, das ich haben möchte, so, das sind meine Anforderungen. Mach mal, so. Und dann selbst dieser vorgelagerte Teil ja quasi schon aus der Hand gegeben wird. Und ich frag dich, okay, wenn Du selbst das nicht mehr beobachtest, weil Du das aus der Hand gibst, dann wird's echt langsam schwierig mit diesem Interviewstil, ne? Ja gut, aber wenn Du auf dem Niveau bist, dann ist ja so die Frage, ob Du dann halt auch noch den gleichen Typus suchst, so, ne. Also ich glaub, dann verändert sich halt auch die die Art von Leute, die Du dafür suchst. Dann suchst Du halt auch nicht mehr den, den die Entwickler zumindest mal in der breiten Masse siehst, den Du irgendwie damals gesucht hast, so. Und dann ist das vielleicht auch nicht mehr das Skill, nachdem Du fragst. Also spätestens dann wird sich's ja verändern. Ich glaub, solang solang noch wahrscheinlich, Dennis, Du sagst, so die die die gleiche Art von Typ suche ich, an meinem Team zu arbeiten, wird's vielleicht auch noch da sein, trotzdem glaub ich irgendwie in 'n paar Jahren, so. Ich mein, grade für Absolventen oder für Studienanfänger, warum sollten die's denn noch so lernen, wenn's wirklich nur ist, den Beweis anzutreten? Ja, nee, klar, das ist ja auch nicht, also das war ja nicht so richtig die Fragestellung von von dem Artikel, wo es eher so tatsächlich den Status quo der Jobinterviews gibt und son bisschen dem entgegenzuwirken, dass man's jetzt nicht mehr braucht. Und Ja. Da fand ich auch spannend, weil sie halt, ne, auch wirklich bei Anthropic und bei OpenAI, also grade die AI Labs sind diejenigen, die ohne AI Coding Challenges stellen und man Probleme lösen muss so. Ja. Und aber ich bin komplett bei dir, deswegen bin ich auch gespannt auf die Folge, so was ihr da diskutiert habt zu zur Lehre, weil das ist ja sonst mein Take, dass ich sage, na ja, ich würde im Moment jetzt keinem mehr empfehlen, Informatik zu studieren so, ne. Außer die Studiengänge passen sich vielleicht schnell genug an und man lernt irgendwie anderes Zeug, aber halt das, was wir als Informatik studiert haben, würd ich halt heute nicht mehr studieren. Und grade, wenn wir mit diesem Scope dann irgendwie in in Jahren gucken, da würd ich sagen, na ja, irgendwie wird es doch schon anders sein. Aber Dennis, ich bin darüber gestolpert, dass Du vorhin gesagt hast, na ja, so viel hat sich irgendwie ja doch gar nicht geändert. Ja. So, ja. Und gleichzeitig haben wir doch vor 'n paar, oh Gott, Wochen ist es, glaub ich, schon her, ja, auch unsere eigenen Stellenanzeigen son bisschen angepasst, ne. Was so Wording und und Framing und so was angehen. Da dacht ich mir, okay, also wie wie Absolut, ja. Passt das zusammen so, wenn Anforderungen sich nicht ändern, aber trotzdem, dass dass Framing sich so verschiebt? Also ich sag, eigentlich ist nur meine Aussage, ich glaub, so so vom vom Typus Mensch irgendwie, wenn man das so generalisieren kann, hat sich vielleicht nicht so viel verändert. Ja, wir haben unsere Stellenausschreibung angepasst und ja, wir haben auch unseren Bewerbungsprozess angepasst und das erstmalig seit irgendwie gefühlt, weiß ich nicht, 15 Jahren, wo wir immer die gleichen Aufgaben hatten, ne. Wir haben jetzt andere Aufgaben, die wir stellen. Wir haben, also wir wir machen tatsächlich eine Aufgabe, wo wir in den letzten Monaten gesagt haben, hey, da kannst Du AI nutzen, weil wir wollen das, was Du im Alltag nutzt, auch irgendwie das Ziel nutzen kannst. Die machen wir jetzt auch strikt ohne AI. Also das heißt, wir haben auch eine harte sozusagen ohne ohne Unterstützung Aufgabe. Mit Internet. Dafür dann aber mit Internet, ja. Ja, auch geht das los. Und auf der anderen Seite dann 2 Aufgaben, wo es wo wir gucken wollen, wie man mit AI umgeht. Das heißt, man hat 2 unterschiedliche Aufgabenstellungen zu AI und genau, wir gucken eben den Umgang über zu. Und die Aufgaben, die es bei uns ohne AI zu lösen gibt, ohne jetzt konkret zu sagen Ja. Vielleicht was was ist da so? Aber mich hat sehr überrascht in dem Blogpost, wie low levelig irgendwie diese Beispiele von OpenAI und 'n Tropic irgendwie waren, wo's dann hieß, na ja, bau halt son oder so was mal von Hand, was ja so son klassisches Whiteboard Coding Ding eigentlich ist, ja, wo man eigentlich denken würde, oh Gott, das ist ja schon schon richtig alt irgendwie, ja. Sind wir da so auch auf diesem low leveligen Thema unterwegs oder ist das eher son sone high levelige Aufgabe, die wir ohne AI gelöst sehen wollen? Und warum vielleicht noch ganz nicht verstanden? Ja, also ich glaub, die eine Aufgabe, die wir jetzt nicht mehr im Programm haben, von daher können wir sie wahrscheinlich nennen, das ist das, finde das Minimum mit einem aus Zahlen, so. Mhm. Ne, das ist ja, also hört sich erst mal sehr, also sehr simpel an das Ganze. Und es ist trotzdem, ich find es superspannend über die letzten 10 Jahre, Ja. Wie viel man aus so 1 einfachen Aufgabe irgendwie rauslesen kann. Weil die Implementierungen superunterschiedlich sind, aber weil auch die Diskussionen darüber superunterschiedlich sind. Und es ist eine so, ein so einfaches Ding und trotzdem kannst Du daran wahnsinnig viel so im Umgang damit, wie spricht man darüber, wie spricht man über Verbesserungssachen und so weiter sprechen kannst, obwohl es so augenscheinlich so so einfach ist. Und ja, also genau, die sind auch eher so. Low levelig. Ja. Und die AI Aufgaben sind dann aber entsprechend high leveligere Sachen? Mhm. Da hast Du letztendlich 'n einen Projekt und ich glaub, das stand auch son bisschen im Artikel, ne, wo's son bisschen eher darum geht, dann zu zu gucken, wie gehst Du halt mit sonem Projektkontext und AI Wie, ne, kontrollierst Du das, was AI dir irgendwie vorschlägt? Das heißt, Du hast einfach, ne, wie kommst Du in eine Code Base rein? Wie kannst Du da mit AI dir schnell 'n Überblick verschaffen? Wie sagst einfach, ja komm, ist mir alles egal. Wie sehr denkst Du drüber nach, ne? Weil da dann Fragestellungen sind, die vielleicht von AI eher so beantwortet werden, aber es eigentlich nicht Sinn macht in dem Kontext so, der da ist. Genau. Cool. Ja, superspannend. Ich musste ja, glaub ich, in meinem Leben nur, warum hab ich überhaupt mal son Coding Interview gemacht? Keine Ahnung. Also spannend. So als als Teilnehmer, weiß grad gar nicht. Überlegen. Ich nicht. Ich find das Ja, also für hier auf alle Fälle auch nicht so, ja? Also bei bei Lotung bin ich durch die Tür gekommen, ohne dass 1 gesehen hat, wie ich Coach schreibe. Ob das jetzt richtig oder falsch war, lass doch mal dahingestellt. Ja. Nein, das ist, ja, auf jeden Fall spannend. Fabi guckt immer noch son bisschen skeptisch. Fabi glaubt, dass diese Colleing Interviews alle sterben müssen. Nö. Ich ich oder andersrum gesagt, ich glaub, sie werden irgendwann sie werden irgendwann sterben, so. Und wenn wir noch irgendwie und da ist die Frage, auf welche Ebene man halt geht, also ich glaub, ich diese Fragestellung find ich immer noch interessant. Ist halt dann hier die Frage, bleibt man dann komplett auf Pseudocode oder so was oder kriegen wir am Ende irgendwie, ich weiß nicht, hatten wir letztens so irgendwie im Blogpost die Frage, ob am Ende Agenten überhaupt noch die Codingsprache nutzen, die wir jetzt grade nutzen oder machen Sie irgendwas Eigenes und nehmen Sie dann irgendein Format, wo wirklich nur noch in, keine Ahnung, in 'nem, eigentlich auch nur im Textformat irgendwie irgendwelche Blöcke beschrieben würden. Also wahrscheinlich wird irgendwas in die Richtung gehen. Irgendwie Problemverständnis ja weiterhin das, was wir was man irgendwie rausfinden will. Ich glaub, kann man vorstellen, dass das auch noch sehr lange halten wird. Ich glaub, eher die Frage, wie man ihr Problemverständnis raus, wenn's Codeing am Ende nicht mehr ist. Ja, und ich finde, wir, also bei all diesen Sachen müssen halt irgendwie, also wir können nicht so langfristig denken. Wir müssen halt gucken, wie der aktuelle Stand ist und so, ne. Also das ist halt einfach, keine Ahnung, wie's in dem Jahr aussieht. Aber ich aber ich erinner mich noch, weil wir waren ja, wir hatten ja eine größere Diskussion bezüglich auch dieser Aufgabe, dieser Programmieraufgabe, Ja. Ob wir die überhaupt noch stellen. Also wir haben die erst vor 'nem Monat nur so, haben wir die hier, glaub ich, erneuert für das Interview. Und da haben wir uns ja auch gestellt, boah, oh, ist das eigentlich noch am Zahn der Zeit, so einfach so Coding Aufgaben zu stellen? Und unser Argument war auch an der Stelle, wie der Artikel ja, glaub ich, auch gesagt hat, dass ich das verstanden habe so, das ist für uns irgendwie 'n sehr guter Proxy dafür, zu schauen, wie so generell ist. So wie geht eine Person einfach an das Problem ran? Und wenn wir dafür, glaub ich, eine 1 bessere Form finden, das zu erkennen, ich glaub, dann wird es auch da abgelöst an der Stelle. Aber es halt, also es dient halt trotzdem gut zu sehen, wie wie ist so einfach vorhanden. Das ist richtig. Und dann muss man aber auch bei uns aktuell noch sagen, aktuell, also jetzt wirklich heute, heute so, August, würden wir halt wirklich nicht jemanden einstellen wollen für den Bereich, der halt diesen Coding Skill nicht kann, weil wir noch nicht in allen Teams irgendwie auf dem Trip sind und sagen, okay, es ist 100 Prozent agentlich und wir gucken gar nicht mehr rein. Wir machen nur außenrum irgendwelche Produktetscheidungen, gucken, dass es, ne, dass dass die Agenten irgendwie da unterwegs sind und wir eben in unserem Team flexibel einsetzbar sein wollen. Das heißt, ne, ja, das da sind wir einfach statt heute nicht so, aber weiß ich nicht, in 6 Monaten kann ich mir das anders vorstellen. Ja. Also ich war einfach nur überrascht, dass Dennis son Array Sorting abfeiert. Ich hätte ich hätte viel skeptischer da einsortiert, aber ist ja auch cool. Tja, guck, siehste mal. Wunderbar. Damit sind wir durch für diese Woche, bleiben knapp unter der 15 Minuten Marke hier. Darf mich verabschieden für die nächsten 3 Wochen, da dürft ihr die News ohne mich machen. Aber wir haben ja schon angekündigt, erster September der Deep Dive den Dave nicht aufgenommen haben und in der Woche danach das Special, was Fabio und ich aufgenommen haben. Ich hatte so einen Spaß dabei. Ich hoffe Fabi auch, auch wenn er zwischendurch son bisschen verloren ausgesehen hat. Nee, Spaß hatte ich auf jeden Fall. Wie auch viel Kopfkratzen und viel, ich hab ihm viel gewundert, aber Was ist da das Thema? Die mal das gewünschtes Special über Jans Back up Strategien und Paranoia in der Datenhaltung und so was alles. Das ist Geil. Ja, weiß nicht, ich glaub, es ist unterhaltsam geworden, Fabi, oder? So kann man's auch Ich denk auch, ja. Also, hätte Frage, ob man danach nach der Folge Jan noch ernst nehmen kann, ne, aber ich mein. Also für mich Du hast Du ja überhaupt schon ernst genommen hast, ja. Keine Ahnung ist der Punkt. Aber Aber Nee, war ja, auf jeden Fall sehr witzig. Noch trotzdem informativ, ne. Ich bin sehr kritisch dem Gegenüber, hab ich mich gestellt, aber nee, auf jeden Fall viel mitgenommen und trotzdem sehr unterhaltsam war eine gute Frau. Trotzdem nix nix nix nix. Nee, genau. Ich mach ich werd nichts davon tun, aber ich find's interessant. Ja. Ach, wunderbar, wunderbar. Dann verabschieden wir uns hiermit. Feedback wie immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder schreibt uns auf Social Media, wo auch immer ihr uns findet oder hinterlasst uns gerne ein Rating auf iTunes, Spotify. Ja. Wo auch immer. Ja. Wir sagen, ciao. Brautkarten von Doppel d gibt's auch, wenn ihr uns schreibt. Gerne jederzeit. Wunderbar. Yes, Sir. Dann tschau tschau. Tschüs. Macht's gut. Dankeschön. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute schon in Kalenderwoche 34. Und die Folge ist voll voll. Nicht nur an Personen, sondern auch an Themen. Wir haben heute am Start neben dem Jan Gregor Ing Getriebe noch den\n\nSpeaker 1: Dave Acker, David Krusitzky. Moin, was geht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich bin Dennis Becker. Hallo.\n\nSpeaker 3: Und ich bin der Fabi Fin Kai.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und zusammen sind wir Doppel d.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wo kommt das her? Das Nee, ich hab das abgespielt. Ich wusste, dass wir irgendwann auf Doppel-d kommen, diese Nummer. Ich wusste nur nicht, dass Dave so schnell dahin kommt, aber ich war dann Zack. Oh, dich schlecht.\n\nOh ja, das war Der\n\nSpeaker 3: war wirklich glatt. Selbstständig zusammen meint der Dave natürlich nur Dennis und Dave. Jan und ich haben nichts damit zu tun.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, erzähl dir mal,\n\nSpeaker 3: was das stimmt. Wir\n\nSpeaker 0: waren wir waren Jan und wir waren nur Zeugen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Jan und Fabi fangen ja auch nicht an mit d Ja. Dem Namen, deswegen können ja gar nicht Doppel-d sein. Genau und damit ihr euch\n\nSpeaker 2: dich völlig für verrückt erklärt, ganz kurz im Kontext, wir hatten bei Lothum letzten Freitag unser Sommerfest und das war im Festival Style dieses Jahr und wo eigentlich verschiedenste Bands auftreten sollten. Am Ende a eine professionelle und sehr gute Band Doppel-d.\n\nSpeaker 3: Sagte bitte.\n\nSpeaker 2: Kurz den Namen, noch mal? Fajet. Fajet liebe Grüße an Fajet. Stehen, was dazu führt, dass wir einfach so, geil, das machen wir, finden wir gut. So, dann war ich 3 Wochen\n\nSpeaker 0: genau so, in in genau diesem Zeitpunkt. Genau so haben\n\nSpeaker 2: wir jetzt abgemacht. Und dann war ich 3 Wochen im Urlaub und dann war hatten wir noch 5 Tage Zeit und dann haben wir gesagt, okay, jetzt brauchen wir 'n Song, jetzt brauchen wir 'n Konzept. Und dann haben wir 'n ein Set auf die Bühne gezimmert mit 3 Songs aus unterschiedlichen Genres und unser Künstlername ist Doppel-d. Und unser erster Song, der rausgekommen heißt, heißt\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist auch Doppel-d. Sehr passend, sehr passend. Ja. Also und es war Devi Durst und Devi Druck. Und Devi dicht manchmal, da war's Triple-d, aber\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, die Genres waren ja sehr unterschiedlich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war ja das Genre so Mallorca Ballermann\n\nSpeaker 2: Richtig. Ne, also Richtig.\n\nSpeaker 3: Wann geht die Tour los?\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir lassen uns hoffentlich von Carlo noch mal professionell Abmischen? Abmischen und produzieren und dann geht das erst mal auf Spotify, dann holen wir all die Oh, das ist gut, hier programmierbar. Erst mal alle Programmierer Leute.\n\nSpeaker 0: Alter, nee.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ihr könnt ja auf der Programmiercon vielleicht noch mal\n\nSpeaker 0: Alles schlecht, alles schlecht. Alles schlecht. Oh, hier wird grade gekocht, man, hier wird grade gekocht hier.\n\nSpeaker 3: Wie geht's\n\nSpeaker 0: zum Frühstück morgens? Aber da sollt ich vielleicht mit dem\n\nSpeaker 1: Ding auch noch mal üben. Okay. Jetzt wird hier geschossen. Das\n\nSpeaker 3: war doch,\n\nSpeaker 2: da war doch voll viel Auto Autotune drauf, oder? Bei dir auch. Ich glaub schon. Oh, dann\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber deswegen ist, ich glaub, ich hab den Kieferkackt tatsächlich, hab den falschen Key gegeben. Mhm. Und dadurch klang's 'n bisschen oft. Das heißt, unsere Tontöne wurden korrigiert, ob auf die falsche Tonart ist da. Na ja, Okay,\n\nSpeaker 3: aber auch zum anderen, das kann man sagen, gehört auch zum Charme.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, genau. War war mal bewusst so gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also lass uns vielleicht mal wissen, ob auf der Programmiercon hier Doppel-d auftreten soll, ob Dave und Dennis 2 Tage vorher noch mal Vollgas geben sollen,\n\nSpeaker 0: noch mal 'n noch keineres Set auf die beiden zu stellen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, man. Neben Doppel-d haben wir heute als Themen Paskies. Wir sprechen über Myster Surfing und diesmal nicht von Dennis. Wir sprechen über Deep Sieg und wir diskutieren am Ende noch mal über Coding Interviews und was da grade alles so tut. Aber vorher gibt's ein bisschen Housekeeping und mit dem größten Punkt darf Dennis anfangen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, richtig. Wir hatten's, glaub ich, schon mal in den AI News und auch hier angedeutet, dass wir darüber überlegen, was wir mit unseren Formaten machen, ne. Wir haben ja seit, boah, ich glaub anderthalb Jahren oder wie lang ist das jetzt schon, haben wir angefangen, AI News explizit zu machen. Und die AI News waren in den ersten Monaten wirklich sehr, sehr technisch. Es ging so, ne, wie ist die Architektur da rum?\n\nWelche Modelle kommen raus? Es ging die Anzahl der Parameter, Mixedurve, Experts und so weiter. Also sehr so, ja, was was ist so, was die Technologie angeht. Und natürlich merken wir heute, dass irgendwie die regulären News, die eigentlich ja unsere Bubble son bisschen beschreiben, was sind die Tools, was sind die Updates gewesen zu Frameworks et cetera, dass das immer mehr zusammenkommt. Erstens, die ARD News sind immer produktlastiger und tullastiger geworden.\n\nUnd die normalen News entwickeln sich natürlich auch dahin, weil unser Alltag sich immer mehr darum dreht, dass wir diese Tools einsetzen in unserem täglichen Doing. Und von daher wir nicht mehr so richtig den Sinn sehen, das Ganze aufzusplitten. Und von daher jetzt News aus beiden Bereichen einfach in die News nehmen. Ich glaube, von daher gar nicht mehr so hart irgendwie nur so Modelupdates und das sind die Parameter, die wir jetzt haben, aber das hatten wir in den AI News auch in der letzten Zeit sowieso nicht mehr so stark, sondern eher die Themen nehmen und versuchen da 'n bisschen mehr Kontext zu geben und sie einzuordnen, was unsere Meinung dazu ist. Genau und damit hoffen wir aber auch gerne hier Feedback wie immer an an Podcaster programmierbar, hoffen wir Leute jetzt nicht zu verschrecken, die vielleicht mal am Anfang die a I news gehört haben und gesagt haben, oh, das ist ja gar nichts für uns, sondern das ist natürlich heute viel praxisnäher und näher an dem, was man täglich tut.\n\nGenau. Und heute fangen wir, glaub ich, schon, das ist jetzt gar nicht so bewusst vorher entschieden worden, aber es ist sowieso schon ein Mix aus News und NI News, den's länger hier gibt. So wird auch die heutige Folge sollen. Genau. Und Philipp, den ihr exklusiv aus den AI News kennt, ist weiterhin eingeladen und kann je nach Verfügbarkeit gerne dazukommen und ja, wird voraussichtlich auch erst mal weiter alle 14 Tage mit in den News dabei sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Das war der 1. Teil vom Housekeeping. Ich mach den Rest. Und zwar haben wir ein Meet-up und zwar am siebzehnten September.\n\nIhr alle wieder herzlich eingeladen, bei uns in Bad Nahem und die Saline zu kommen. Und das ist ein ganz besonderes Meet-up. Wir machen nämlich, was machen wir immer am Ende des Sommers? Ein\n\nSpeaker 2: Programmier Barbecue.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und es ist ein ganz besonderes Programmier Barbecue, weil Was\n\nSpeaker 2: ist vielleicht der? Smash Barbecue oder Fabi?\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, Smash Burger. Ich werd am Grill stehen, aber nicht, weil ich das besonders gut kann, sondern weil ich's mir eigentlich zeigen lassen möchte, weil der Grischer, der auch schon hier zu Gast war, die sehr gut im Smash Burger machen ist, die sie immer mal probieren wollten, haben gesagt, komm, dann lass doch direkt alle Programmierbarhörer oder die auf dem Meet-up sind zumindest, auch mitprobieren. Und wir stellen uns an den Grill und machen geile Smash Burger für euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Richtig guter Sales Pitch, Fabi. Ich steh am Grill, weil ich das nicht so gut kann.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, ich, nee, ich bin\n\nSpeaker 3: generell supergut im Grillen. Nur Smash Burger kann ich nicht so gut, aber\n\nSpeaker 0: wir haben das heiße.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich mein, wenn jemand das mir das Handwerk zeigt, so ich ich bin schnell im Lernen so. Vielleicht Tipp, nicht den ersten Burger von mir nehmen. Hin so ab dem dritten wird's, glaub ich, richtig geil.\n\nSpeaker 2: Geil. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber zum Beispiel Burger\n\nSpeaker 1: hast Du schon mal gegessen, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also wie viel,\n\nSpeaker 3: ist nicht ist nicht das, was bei gibt irgendwie Smash? Ich weiß gar nicht genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich ich weiß auch gar nicht. Nein.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich hab schon mal 'n Youtube über Smash Burger gesehen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ist das Smash Burger am Freitag? Also, ja, okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, dass Du das, was bei uns Freitag gibst, das geht schon in die Richtung. Das schon, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach so, ja okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann findest Du nicht so geil, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Du Vegetarier findest Du\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, das Ding ist, also man muss ja sagen, oft das, was es in Veggie gibt, ist ja immer die schlechtere Variante, ne, deswegen bin ich ja nicht so Hype drauf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber ich glaub,\n\nSpeaker 3: also ich glaub, Grischelt hat was mit Beyond Meet oder so was gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Die sind wirklich krass. Die Beyond Meet Burger sind wirklich krass. Okay. Also May. May.\n\nIch glaube,\n\nSpeaker 0: wenn irgendwas so gut. Mit den Burgern gibt's am siebzehnten September natürlich auch einen Talk.\n\nSpeaker 2: Was? Wie?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ach so. Ach so. Das ist ja auch am Mieter. Es gibt auch Content, nicht nur Essen so, ja. Content für Magen und Kopf so.\n\nUnd zwar haben wir einen Talk, den es ansonsten bei der Programmiercon gibt für euch quasi als Preview auf die Konferenz und zwar von Tobi, der hier bei uns im BI Team Der wird einen Talk halten über KI Bilder Upscaling und wie das so funktioniert und wie man das am besten betreiben kann. Das wird, glaub ich, auch ganz cool. Da haben wir ja schon, Fabi war da, glaub ich, auch son bisschen mit involviert, was wir hier bei Lotum alles gelernt haben. Und da gibt's, glaub ich, 'n paar coole Insights und Sachen, die man zu Hause nachprobieren kann sozusagen. Deshalb rechtzeitig anmelden unter Programmierpunkt bar, die Anmeldung ist schon da, wählt euch zum Meetup, könnt euch anmelden und dann wissen wir auch, wie viele Burger Fabi vorbestellen muss.\n\nSpeaker 2: Sieht's aus.\n\nSpeaker 0: So. Und natürlich darf auch nicht fehlen der obligatorische Hinweis, die Programmiercon fünfundzwanzigster sechsundzwanzigster November. Wir sind im letzten Drittel der Tickets angekommen, so. Und das ist nur noch eine Frage der Zeit, bis hier ausverkauft ist. Von daher, wer jetzt noch keins hat, sollte sich vielleicht beeilen.\n\nWir freuen uns, wenn's schwierig werden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir freuen uns,\n\nSpeaker 2: falls ausverkauft wird, gibt's auch Nachtisch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was heißt denn hier, falz? Also wir gehen ja schon davon aus, dass Auswirkungen Sobald es, sobald. Also warte, also es gibt Nachtisch, das\n\nSpeaker 1: ist die Aussage eigentlich.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn? Ja, aber das ist doch eine Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich hab das Catering angeboten, hab gesehen, son Nachtisch würde sich lohnen, wenn wir den mitbestellen, Find ich\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh. Würde es geben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Und Dave gibt sein Ticket wieder ab. Genau. Ich bin nicht dabei bei der Konferenz.\n\nSpeaker 3: Meinte, wir schaffen's eigentlich nur noch 10 Minuten auch noch zu Inhalten zu kommen? Nein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Doch, ich wollt ja grade den Übergang schon zu Dave machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Kurzteste Folge wird heute.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kurzteste Folge ever.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Besonders intim.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh Gott. Dave, erzähl uns, was zu Paskies. Los geht's.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oh, der fing noch an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, let's go.\n\nSpeaker 1: Last. Nee, genau. Passkis, ich weiß nicht, das habt ihr natürlich auf all euren Informations News Channel mitbekommen. Große Schlagwellen, was Passkis angeht. Sind komplett rib, wurden jetzt gehackt, nicht mehr sicher, alles geht den Bach runter.\n\nMan kann jetzt nicht mehr nutzen, hat eine Hast\n\nSpeaker 3: Du nicht mitbekommen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hat eine hat eine Forschungsgruppe herausgefunden.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ah, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, aber ist tatsächlich so, wenn man jetzt geknackt oder, also 'n, man denkt an Nudeln, aber es ist eher gemein von Dingen, pasta key, pasta key, als Angriff auf, War jetzt relativ groß überall, aber ehrlicherweise, ich hab mal reingeschaut und man muss sagen, ganz so schlimm steht es die jetzt nicht. Vielleicht erst mal so als Kurz anfangen, was sind. Vielleicht auch erst mal generell hier der Hinweis, wir haben auch 'n Deep Dive zu. Kann man, glaub ich, sehr gut an der Stelle anbringen mit der Martina Kraus. Da reden wir über.\n\nCoole Folge, gerne reinhören. Auch Werbung für die Programmiercon an der Stelle, weil Martina wird auch da sein auf der Programmiercon. Von daher direkt den\n\nSpeaker 0: Doppelklick über Passkys sprechen auch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, okay, sehr gut. Also das ist das ist dreifach passend. Genau. Und zwar, Passkys gelten eigentlich als sehr sicher und eigentlich als der neue, moderne Standard, ne. Das das funktioniert so, Du hast auf dem Server hast Du einen öffentlichen Key, den kennt der Server.\n\nUnd der fragt dann dich lokal auf deinem Gerät so, hey, was ist denn hier jetzt die passende Antwort und Du hast 'n privaten Key auf deinem Gerät. So, und dann kannst Du dich darüber authentifizieren und hast seine Signatur dahinter und zack, bam bist Du eingeloggt. Und dieses Verfahren gilt als sehr sicher, ne, weil Passwörter können abgegriffen werden. Da ist jetzt etwas so, es braucht diesen öffentlichen Key und den privaten Key, den es nur auf deinem Gerät gibt. So, und was jetzt diese Forschungsgruppe herausgefunden hat, ist nicht, dass per se unsicher sind, sondern man konnte etwas ganz Bestimmtes ausnutzen.\n\nUnd zwar lag es, wenn man einen Windows PC in Kombination mit diesem Google Passwort Manager gehabt hat, weil das eine Schnittstelle war von diesem Google Passwort Manager, damit das halt synchron auf all deinen Geräten ist, ne. Du hast es irgendwie auf deinem Handy, dann hast Du's noch auf irgendwie deinem Rechner und möchtest das synchron halten. Und da ist das Problem, dass man das, sobald Malware auf deinem Computer schon da war, ne, das heißt also eigentlich, 'n Angreifer hat kompletten Zugriff auf deinen Rechner, dann konnte er die an der Stelle abgreifen. Das war halt auch in dieser speziellen Kombination nur möglich, weil beispielsweise aufm Mac wird das auf sonem bestimmten, ich glaub, tmp heißt es, Plattform abgespeichert. Das ist 'n spezieller Chip, wo halt quasi gar nicht dran gekommen werden kann.\n\nSo, das ist dann aber auch nur lokal auf dem Gerät verfügbar. Und warum das jetzt passieren konnte, war halt einfach,\n\nSpeaker 0: weil diese Synchronisation zwischen diesen verschiedenen Plattformen möglich war.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und dadurch konnte man da, zwischen diesen verschiedenen Plattformen möglich war. Und dadurch konnte man da diese Passies abgreifen, kopieren und dann halt quasi sich selbst damit einloggen auf verschiedenen Plattformen. Von daher, ihr habt das vielleicht 'n bisschen erkannt an dem, was ich gesagt habe. Der der Rechner in diesem Szenario war schon von Malware betroffen. Das heißt, Du eigentlich war der komplette Zugriff schon gegeben und dann konnten die Gaskeys abgegriffen werden, wenn das halt über diesen Google Plattform Manager, Passwort Manager drangegangen wurde.\n\nVon daher ist es eigentlich 'n bisschen ein sehr seltsames Szenario. Ich hab nach 'nem passenden Vergleich dafür gesucht, mir ist son Burgenszenario eingefallen. Also quasi, Du bist schon, also die Feinde sind schon in der Burg drin und lassen die Brücke runter. Und dann sagst Du, na ja, der Graben war jetzt nicht so hilfreich bei der Verteidigung. Also das ist irgendwie son bisschen 'n hinfälliger Vergleich an der Stelle.\n\nGenau, deswegen, also Paskies sind weiterhin sicher an der Stelle, glaub ich. Es ist ist wichtig zu erwähnen, also die wurden nicht wirklich geknackt. Vielleicht, was man da auch an der Stelle noch sagen können, das hat Martina auch empfohlen, dass man son lokales Gerät hat, also irgendwie son Stick, worauf seine Passkys gespeichert ist, sind und den halt immer mitnimmt und nicht, dass er's halt irgendwie synchronisiert in der Cloud ist oder so, sondern immer ein lokales Gerät an der Stelle parat hat.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ist eine Voraussetzung für, dass da immer son biometrischer Teil irgendwie oder son Teil dabei ist, dass es irgendwo abgesichert liegt und man nur durch beispielsweise Biometrie wieder drankommt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Durch Finger oder Face ID oder so was, ne? Ja, ich glaub, das ist so son Klassiker. Ich glaub, das ist Ja,\n\nSpeaker 3: bei bei bei kommt's jetzt aufm iPhone ja auch mit dem mit dem Passwort dran. Da brauchst Du keine Biometrie. Also nee, das ist keine Bedingung.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach nee, glaub ich, das, was man so am häufigsten kennt tatsächlich so. Also es\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gab keine Bedingung, aber und, nee, daher kommt dann auch das Synchronisieren, ne. Also ich mein, wenn's dann in, ist wahrscheinlich auch wieder ein 1 der Tools, wo synchronisiert ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, aber deswegen ist ja die Frage,\n\nSpeaker 3: also gab's dann irgend 'n Patch für Google Authenticator oder ist es Google Authenticator oder Passwortmanager dafür? Also also ist diese Lücke immer noch offen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Die sollte, glaub ich, immer noch offen sein, weil das halt quasi per se also gewollt ist. Also Lücke ist aber auch hier in Anführungszeichen zu setzen, weil die halt immer noch diese Synchronisation haben wollen. Und solang diese Synchronisation besteht, ist da halt noch diese Lücke. Ich weiß nicht, ob die jetzt noch was da machen werden, aber aktuell Das heißt, wenn\n\nSpeaker 3: wir grade das Waldbüro one Passwort hatten, ist es denn da dann auch theoretisch die Lücke?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, das wär dann auch da, bei bei dem wär das genau die Lücke auch, solang das über Geräte synchronisiert wird und diese Schnittstelle dann halt verfügbar ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also wenn Du, das würde genauso bedeuten, wenn Du Zugriff auf one Passwort hast durch irgendeine Genau. Netzwerke, dann hast Du auch Zugriff auf die Passkeys.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Deswegen dieses Szenario war ja auch so, ne, die Malware. Also Du bist schon, also Du hast die voll volle Kontrolle über das Gerät. Ja. So, das ist ja das Szenario.\n\nDeswegen ist es son bisschen hanebüchen an der Stelle.\n\nSpeaker 2: Clickbait. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: So, deswegen, also weiterhin, sind sicher. Let's go. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ganz ohne. Wo warst Du grade, Jan? Du hast gerade mit dem Kopf geschüttelt und musst erst mal nach Luft schnappen. Ich hatte grade son Übergang im Kopf und dann muss man den wieder verwerfen und man darf ja auch nicht alles sagen, was man denkt. Deswegen einfach, Dennis wollte uns was zu AI Plattformen und Infrastrukturanbietern erzählen und hat gleich 2 Themen mitgebracht, so.\n\nEcht? Verstößt hier gegen unsere Regel, ne. Ein Host, ein Thema, aber wir\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, dafür mach ich, pass auf. Dafür mach ich 1 davon in in 2 Sätzen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Echt? Ich bin gespannt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Stripe ist ein Zahlungsanbieter, den man aus dem Internet kennt, weil dort ganz viele Rechnungen und so was drüber laufen. Und die sollen wohl, das ist ein Gerücht noch nicht bestätigt, Open Router übernehmen. Ein KI Start-up, das dafür zuständig ist, gesammelt, Zugänge und Abrechnung für KI Anbieter zu leisten. Das war Einsatz.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war Einsatz mit sehr vielen Komma und Kollektionen, aber aber lassen Sie mal gelten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, so und der 2. Ist jetzt, man munkelt, es sind 7000000000 Dollar, die dafür bezahlt werden sollen. Und der Open Router CEO hat damals auch halt irgendwie sein Tool als Stripe für KI bezeichnet. Vielleicht hat das bei Stripe geklingelt und gesagt, oh, das sollte unser Tool sein. Aber trotzdem natürlich sicher interessant, dass son Zahlungsanbieter, der bis jetzt wenig mit KI zu tun hat, sich da jetzt so positioniert und dann irgendwie der, ja, der der der Verkaufshahn für Tokens auch in der Zukunft sein soll.\n\nAber ist das alles gehört.\n\nSpeaker 3: Gibt's dazu einfach irgend 'n bisschen Kontext so, warum Sie das Ganze machen? Es passt ja wirklich nicht so ganz so, also man munkelt so, bis das einfach Ich\n\nSpeaker 0: find, das passt voll.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, also genau, es hier steht halt son bisschen, ne, ne, kann halt einfach Riesenmengen so an Abwicklung von latenz- und verfügbarkeitskritischen Abrechnungen und so was einfach sehr, sehr gut und haben halt die Zahlungsinfrastruktur. Und von daher, ist ja letztendlich auch nur so ein auch nur so ein Gateway zu verschiedensten Modellen und Anbietern, wo Geld und Zahlung ein sehr wichtiger Aspekt sind. Und von daher, ja, kann man sich, glaub ich, schon das irgendwie ganz gut vorstellen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Stripe hat einfach das Gateway Playbook erfunden, so, ja? Du kannst irgendwie mit 200 verschiedenen Zahlungsdienstleistern zusammenarbeiten, musst nur mit 1 API reden und irgendjemand anderes kümmert sich darum, dass die Kunden schon beim richtigen Payment Provider landen, so. Das ist halt genau dasselbe wie Open Router. Also Du bindest eine API an, Du konfigurierst son bisschen im Backend. Ist es mir wichtig, dass weiß ich nicht, ne?\n\nBesonders schwierige Anfragen bei diesem Model landen, besonders einfache bei diesem Model. Anfragen aus China dürfen nur von chinesischen Models beantwortet werden. Anfragen aus Amerika können von beantwortet werden, europäische vielleicht nicht, keine Ahnung, whatever so. Ja, das haben die, also das das können die halt einfach schon, so. Fertig.\n\nFertig.\n\nSpeaker 3: Das war meine Zeit. Jetzt habt\n\nSpeaker 2: ihr das jetzt habt ihr das Größer gemacht als ich wollte, das Thema. Was ja\n\nSpeaker 3: sonst nie passiert, ne? Weil wir können einfach 2 Sätze zum Thema sagen und dann kommt das nächste. Also das wär ja\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, genau. Das kommt man ja nicht zum ruhig an Fragen stellen, dass\n\nSpeaker 3: dass da irgendwie eine 1 Unterhaltung dafür entsteht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Schön, dass ihr darauf eingegangen seid. Vielen Dank für den weiteren Kontext. Nächstes Thema, Mistral. Ist ja 1 der Anbieter, die wir immer mal wieder ganz gerne erwähnen, weil es eben ein europäischer Anbieter ist und 1 von den wenigen, die auch einige große Modelle trainiert haben und die auch immer mal wieder hier getestet wurden, wie weit sie damit mittlerweile sind. Und da gibt es ganz interessante Änderungen, weil sie sich ein bisschen öffnen und praktisch so der Vorreiter sein wollen für Europas KI Infrastruktur.\n\nAlso nicht mehr zwangsweise die Modelle nur noch bereitzustellen, sondern es geht vor allen Dingen Rechenkapazität. Und da ist es zum einen so, dass Sie Partner jetzt gesucht haben, die sehr langfristig Rechenkapazität dort kaufen und einfach sich sehr lange committen, damit diese Infrastruktur überhaupt dann erstellt werden kann und damit man halt absehen kann, okay, das ist das, was wir an konkreten Zusagen haben. Und da sind, keine Ahnung, Capgemini, Amadeus, also 'n paar größere Firmen so, die in Europa auch viel unterwegs sind, sind mit dabei. Und unter anderem auch Microsoft, die auch zugesichert haben über ja, also 1000000000 schwere Partnerschaft. Wie viele Milliarden weiß man jetzt nicht, aber die da auch dann verbraucht werden sollen auf der Infrastruktur von Mysteral.\n\nUnd genau, das heißt, Mistral nannte so als Ziele, dass bis Ende 2027 die europäische Rechenkapazität auf 200 Megawatt wachsen soll. Wusste auch nicht, dass man das mittlerweile einfach nur nur in\n\nSpeaker 3: Stromverbrauch ausdrückt irgendwie, wie viel das ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist das schon häufiger? Weiß nicht, ist das schon länger der Standard? Na ja, auf jeden Fall aktuell haben sie da schon ein Rechenzentrum mit 44 Megawatt, was sie grade aufbauen, wofür sie schon 830000000 Dollar Schulden erst mal aufnehmen mussten. Also ist einfach sehr viel Geld, was da mit dem Spiel ist und das überhaupt machen zu können. Und dafür das Geld zu bekommen, sind eben diese Partnerschaften nötig.\n\nUnd ja, dann ist eben das das das Spannende, also dass man dann eben bei Misstrauen sagen kann, hey, ich möchte die über euch kaufen und ich möchte halt sicherstellen, dass das einfach auf europäischer Hardware läuft und man wird es dann auch noch zusätzlich sagen können, es soll ausschließlich eben auf Hardware von misstral laufen und nicht mehr auch auf anderen rechtensenden großen, rechtensenden großer Cloud Anbieter, die's in Europa gibt, was im Moment bei Mysteral Modellen auch noch so sein kann. Und was dann damit einhergeht, dass Mysteral nicht mehr wie bisher nur ihre eigenen Modelle im Angebot hat, sondern sich jetzt eben auch öffnet und einzelne externe Modelle anbietet, die dann über die gleiche Infrastruktur zu haben sind. Aktuell ist nur ein einziges Modell, Open Way Modell, nämlich das GLM 5 Punkt 2 dort verfügbar, aber das werden dann eben in der Zukunft auch mehr werden. Also tatsächlich einfach mehr Infrastruktur und nicht mehr nur eigene Modelle entwickeln.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das waren jetzt mehr als 2 Sätze. Ja, das hab ich Heute\n\nSpeaker 2: auf den Fragen haben wir nicht versprochen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau. Mal beschlossen. Durch. Immer fertig. Okay.\n\nWunderbar. Dave hat doch eine Frage.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich ich hab nur überlegt, Du hast auch Microsoft erwähnt, oder? Mhm. Die da investieren. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich\n\nSpeaker 1: frag mich halt nur von wegen, also wenn wenn jetzt trotzdem ein US amerikanisches Unternehmen da ja investiert, was das für Implikationen hat, von wegen, hey, wir sind jetzt hier komplett in der EU und so was alles? Also was sich dann bei Microsoft an der Stelle verspricht? Solange\n\nSpeaker 2: sie erst mal nur das Geld bereitstellen, ist, glaub ich, dass erst mal aus dieser Sicht von, ne, was liegt hier und wie souverän sind wir irgendwie in dem Umgang damit? Ist es relativ unkompliziert. Man muss ja schon auch sagen, dass Microsoft durch diesen Business- und Konzer Zusammenhang ja schon auch viel in die Richtung gemacht hat, ne. Also ich mein, die sind mit Azure, glaub ich, so auch immer die Vorreiter gewesen, wo man sagt, das ist alles in Europa und das gibt die eigene Cloud und das alles nur für euch und so Also die haben einfach viele, viele Businesskunden, die sehr interessiert daran sind und die von den Richtlinien halt brauchen, dass die Daten in den EU liegen. Und ich glaube, das ist das Interesse, warum Microsoft da sagt, okay, da wollen wir auch mit investieren, dass dass diese Möglichkeiten dort gibt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wahrscheinlich auch 1 der wenigen Player, die so bereit wären, ihre eigenen profitären Modelle son bisschen aus der Hand zu geben und woanders gehostet zu lassen, eben genau diese Kunden halt irgendwie zu bedienen, ne. Also ich kann mir vorstellen, dass Microsoft seine Modelle dahergibt, aber halt Open AI nicht so, ne. Mhm. Und deswegen ist da vielleicht auch schon mal gut, son halben Fuß in der Tür zu haben. Alright.\n\nWenn wir schon von großen Labs sprechen oder kleineren Labs, weiß nicht. Fabi, was gibt's von DeepSyk?\n\nSpeaker 3: DeepSyk hat ein Agenthanness rausgebracht und wenn man auf die Homepage geht, schreiben wir von, als son bisschen das Verkaufsargument da hintendran. Aber es gibt, glaub ich, 'n paar Punkte, warum das interessant ist, ne. Also ich mein, Harnes ist ja sozusagen für alle, die denen's immer noch kein Begriff ist, sozusagen ist ja das LLM, das Modell ist die Intelligenz und Harnes sozusagen alles drum herum, also irgendwie der Agent Loop, wie die Modelle aufrufen, die Tools, das System prompt, Kontext Management und so weiter. Also Cloud Code ist 'n Harnes, Codex ist 'n Harnes und so weiter. Gibt auch einige Open Source und jetzt Deepseak hat eben so eigene Harnes rausgebracht und genau, also eine einerseits ist so, was meinen Sie mit?\n\nDamit meinen Sie wirklich, alles ist ein Plug in. Also als Beispiel, weil Cloud Code, was wir haben ja, was haben wir für Anbindung? MCP zum Beispiel als Service, verschiedene verschiedene proprietäre Plug ins, aber zum Beispiel, der Agent Loop ist fix, so. Also der ist halt in Cloud Code mit reingebacken so. Das hat halt in Shopic einem entschieden, wie funktioniert der Agent Loop?\n\nAber zum Beispiel beim Hannes von Deepsek ist auch der Agent Loop selbst ein Plug in. Also alles, was aufgerufen wird, ist ist kompositionierbar und austauschbar und selbst der Agent Loop ist ist austauschbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ich glaub, das ist\n\nSpeaker 3: auf jeden Fall ein ganz interessanter Teil daran, ob das jetzt wirklich gut ist oder irgendwie gebraucht wird, darüber scheint, darüber ist auf jeden Fall sich die Community, würd ich sagen, auch noch nicht so ganz einig darüber. Also die einen sagen halt so, hey, also das ist das das ist das neue Framework Framework so und das wird auf jeden Fall der neue Standard werden. Und so sollte, weil ja auch grade der Agent selbst auch die Plug ins Schreiben könnte, austauschen könnte, weil's auch zum Beispiel so ist, dass es ausgetauscht werden kann, nicht wie wie bei VS Code, wenn eine Extension irgendwie gewechselt wird, dass dann der Host gestaltet werden muss, sondern es kann zur Laufzeit gemacht werden, jedes Plug in irgendwie ausgetauscht. Bringt natürlich auch 'n bisschen mit sich, weil's 'n bisschen komplizierter ist, als irgendwie eine MTP zu restaten, aber ist grundsätzlich möglich. Aber es braucht natürlich auch viel mehr Konfiguration, ne.\n\nAlso man muss eben darum Gedanken machen und ist halt die Frage, ob dieses, wenn es nicht mehr so richtig Plug and play ist, ob der Markt dafür groß genug ist. Aber ich denk, das wird jetzt die Zukunft son bisschen zeigen. Ich mein, das Schöne ist, Deep Sick ist natürlich auch komplett modelagnostisch, also was man da irgendwie wählt, kann man komplett entscheiden. Die haben's natürlich son bisschen aufgesetzt, dass per Default man relativ einfach da die Deep Sick App hier irgendwie anbinden kann, aber es ist komplett offen. Und grade auch, was offen angeht, glaub ich, der 2.\n\nPunkt, der ganz interessant ist, dass es einen Session Log gibt. Also alles, was das Modell sieht, landet in einem Session Log, also System prompt, zu Riesening Schritte, Tool Calls, Contact Injection. Und so kann sich im Grunde genommen alle Sessions derzeit lassen, durchsuchen und auch replain lassen. Und das ist ja eigentlich sozusagen der spannendste Kontrast zum Rest vom Markt. Also mittlerweile zeigt ja noch Zusammengefasste statt roher Reasoning Traces und so.\n\nUnd sie sagen ja, die Begründung da hinten dran ist, die Destillation zu erschweren so, aber Deep Sieg macht ja genau das Gegenteil und legt alles offen. Und das ist natürlich für Debugging, für das Verständnis, warum 'n Agent irgendwas getan hat, auf jeden Fall Gold wert. Und ich glaub, das sind so die beiden interessanten Dinge. Ansonsten probiert's einfach gerne mal aus. Ich glaub, es ist noch halt ziemlich so.\n\nAlso einige schreiben auch, die Dokumentation liest sich son bisschen wie son Wortsalat irgendwie und ist irgendwie, teilweise merkt man vielleicht auch einiges irgendwie von ri geschrieben und nicht ganz so klar, aber ist supereinfach auszuprobieren, per NPX einfach installierbar. Dann kann man mal ausprobieren, aber viele sagen auch, gibt dem Ganzen noch mal 'n paar Monate, ist MIT lizenziert, Open Source. Klingt auf jeden Fall ganz interessant und Deep SEK ja auch ein großer Player da im Markt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Du\n\nSpeaker 1: hast Du hast grade gesagt, alles ist 'n Plug in. Kommt das aber auch mit irgendwie so was Vorgefertigten? Also dass Du sagst, okay, Du hast das ist ja so die vorher Sachen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Zum Beispiel Agent Loop, es gibt ein Agent Loop Plug in, was da mit drin ist. Und Du hast ansonsten einfach auch sone Art Plug in Marketplace und so. Mhm. Und ist auf jeden Fall was Vorgefertigtes. Die haben natürlich was mitgebracht und gibt auch irgendwie verschiedene Modi, aber da war ich jetzt gar nicht so ganz drin.\n\nAber natürlich, also und alles gibt's da grundsätzlich noch viele.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Wenn Du aber gut, dass Du mal den den Marketplace erwähnt hast, weil das ist natürlich dann sehr spannend, wenn Du auch die Community daran auch teilhaben kann. Schon ganz gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, auf der einen Seite würd ich mir wünschen, dass sich das durchsetzt, weil ich glaub, den architektonischen Ansatz find ich schon irgendwie cool. Und ich kann mir sone Zukunft vorstellen, wo Du, ne, Du holst dir irgendwie den Memorylayer von Open Code und Du holst dir aber den Loop von Codex und hast Du alles nicht gesehen. Aber gleichzeitig profitieren ja diese ganzen profitären Harnisse grade davon, dass sie halt 'n sehr gutes Pricing dir irgendwie anbieten können, ja? Also wenn Du halt Cloud Code nutzt und dein Subscription Pricing dann nutzen kannst, ist es halt was anderes, als wenn ich jetzt DeepC Hannes nutzt und direkt im API Pricing irgendwie drinsteck und jeden Token direkt 1 zu 1 bezahlen muss so. Da bin ich mal gespannt, weil da hab ich immer noch son bisschen Respekt vor, einfach alles direkt über die API laufen zu lassen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, und ich mein, der Punkt wie gesagt kommt am Ende auch dazu, so, ne. Also ist halt die Frage, willst Du überhaupt deinen, also wie viele Leute wollen wirklich den Agent Loop und das Plug in irgendwie austauschen? Aber ja, auf jeden Fall Pricing ist, glaub ich, 'n großer Punkt. Ich will, mal schauen, wo's hingeht und ob sich vielleicht auch die anderen Anbieter irgendwie mehr daran orientieren und wir vielleicht son Plug in basiertes System und der Agent Duop ist austauschbar vielleicht auch woanders sehen werden. Moment.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dennis, Du warst auch Kitesurfen, aber heute darf Fabi über Kitesurfen reden.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja, beziehungsweise Dennis war ja Kitesurfen. Wir wollen ja eigentlich die ganze Zeit noch mal zusammen Kitesurfen gehen, ne. Also zumindest Ja. Können wir jetzt hier zusammen über Kitesurf reden, der das von Cloudflyer ist. Das und zwar ein Browser, der nicht für Menschen gebaut ist, sondern für AI Agenten.\n\nUnd son bisschen die Problemstellung, die Cloudflyer son bisschen aufgemacht hat, ich glaub, man kennt's ja mittlerweile so, ne. Also ich mein, wie viel Browser Use haben wir alleine in unseren Gentican ist das irgendwie drin und das Ganze natürlich auch, hat das funktionieren. Auch Cloudflight hat das Ganze gesehen, also die haben ja ihre, ah, ich weiß grad gar nicht, Browser, glaub ich, ihr Produkt, was auch von Agenten genutzt wird, sozusagen in ihren Workers irgendwie Zugriff auf Browser zu haben. Und was sie grundsätzlich sehen, ist halt meistens irgendwie, also der bisher Standard ist irgendwie Puppete, also irgendwas Chromium Basiertes. Und wenn man sich das Ganze da anschaut, ist ein großes Problem, dass es halt super memtensiv ist, weil natürlich alles, was da irgendwie mitkommt, eigentlich für den Menschen gedacht ist.\n\nUnd memoryintensität ist sozusagen das Problem, dass es am Ende halt superteuer wird, ne. Wenn am Ende sagt, Du willst jedem Agent da irgendwas geben, so ist es am Ende das, was am was auf der Rechnung steht, so, wenn Du irgendwie superviel Browser Run nutzt. Und sie wurden inspiriert für Kitesurf von, da haben sie auch in ihrem Blogbeitrag son bisschen gezeigt, so wie dann die ISED zustande kam. Da ging's wirklich so, sie waren inspiriert von obscurer, was im Grunde genommen auch schon eine ist für Agenten. Der der der jetzt geschrieben hat, auch darauf dann reagiert.\n\nWie gesagt, er ist übrigens 16, er fühlt sich sehr geehrt, das Cloudflair sich von ihm hat inspirieren lassen. Was ist das? Ich glaube, 2 Unterschiede gibt's da, wenn man sich auf die Technik schaut. Obscurer nutzt weiterhin v 8 als Engine, was natürlich auch wieder sehr viel näher an irgendwie Chromium und so was dran ist und auf jeden Fall memtensiver ist. Und das hat das hat Cloudflyer an der Stelle verändert.\n\nAlso sie nutzen nicht v 8, sie nutzen zwar die v 8 Engine für die Worker, aber der Browserrun selbst nicht. Der nutzt Blitz für HTML und CSS, Stylo für die CSS Engine und boa als JavaScript Engine und setzen im Grunde genommen da nicht auf v 8, was was es dazu bringt mit. Also Geschwindigkeit, wenn man mal guckt son Page Load, da sind sie eigentlich nicht wirklich schneller als Chromium. Wo sie dann halt besser sind, ist eben bei dem. Also irgendwie, wenn man mal sagt, der RAM für 'n Screenshot und HTML Extraktion, haben sie fünf- bis siebenmal weniger, son Chromium Water für b für eine HTML nur 40.\n\nUnd das macht's natürlich auf jeden Fall superinteressant, weil sie einfach, sie nutzen jetzt innerhalb von Browser Run, das Ganze zu machen und funktioniert wohl auch schon ziemlich gut. Und genau, der eine Punkt ist die Engine, aber der andere Punkt ist, und das macht, glaub ich, auch noch 'n bisschen produktmäßig der Unterschied obscurer, das wär to obscure, ne, also 'n bisschen, die wollen was verschleiern, hat im Endeffekt auch sonen, weil 'n bisschen ihr Ziel auch ist, so Agenten werden ja häufig von irgendwelchen Seiten einfach geblockt, so, ne. Und sie dürfen auf irgendwelchen Konto nicht zugreifen. Und das Ziel von Obscurals auch son bisschen, dass am Ende die Agenten doch auf alles zugreifen können und probieren halt, was zu bauen, wo sie doch am Ende da drum rumkommen. Und Cloudflair will ja genau das nicht, weil im Grunde genommen sind sie ja, wenn man sagt, sie sind ja eigentlich die Tür, die sie verkaufen als Produkte, eigentlich die Tür zu sagen, hey, hier können Bots nicht reinkommen.\n\nUnd was sie natürlich nicht wollen, ist am Ende einen Headless Browser, der das Ganze umgeht. Das heißt, sie stellen jetzt hier 'n Produkt hin, der das Ganze natürlich nicht kann. Also die das ist auch gar nicht ihr Ziel so. Also der wir können weiterhin nur das, was was im Grunde genommen auch mit 'nem normalen Browser zu tun ist, sondern ihr ist also, sind auf jeden Fall die Kosten und vielleicht auch 'n bisschen proaktiv, lass mal lieber selbst was hinstellen, was gut funktioniert, bevor irgendwas anderes dahin kommt, was unser Produkt, die Tür am Ende schädigt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wenn Du von Kosten sprichst, sprichst Du nur von Infrastrukturkosten, ne. Also die Laufzeitkosten, die quasi bei Cloudflare anfallen für den Betrieb von dem Browser, weil Du Memory Footprint ja erwähnt hast. Es geht jetzt nicht darum, dass der Render State oder so was, den dieser Browser erzeugt hat, irgendwie auch effektiver ist, für ein LLM zu lesen oder so, weil sie das HTML verschlanken oder unnötige CSS Regeln rausschmeißen oder so was. Da machen sie gar nix.\n\nSpeaker 3: Also da gehen sie zumindest bisher noch nicht so wirklich drauf ein, sondern also ich mein, die Sachen, wie am Ende dann auch irgendwie gegeben wird, zu HML Extractions, es werden Screenshots gemacht, können PDFs generiert werden. Aber so das Hauptding ist wirklich, sie sagen am Ende das, was sie verkaufen, ist die Kosten, die am Ende auf deiner Rechnung stehen. Also so, dass im Endeffekt Browser Run halt sehr viel günstiger wird dadurch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Na ja, es ist so, hohe Randpreise sorgen dafür, dass Software wieder effizienter wird.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, schlau. Dennis und Fabi, ihr seid doch auch hier Kitesurfer. Kitesurfer. Kitesurfer, vor allem Kitesurfer, aber auch Arc User. Nein.\n\nUnd nicht mehr, Fabi? Nein. Aber eine Zeit lang gewesen, richtig? Ja. Und die Browser Company, die die ja Arc gemacht haben, die haben doch auch son zweiten Browser angekündigt, wo's Ja, Dia, genau da irgendwie, ich hab jetzt im Kopf, dass es Sehr schön.\n\nGeborene ich jetzt mit, den gibt's ja und geht da auch in eine ähnliche Richtung oder ist es grade was\n\nSpeaker 3: Na ja, also Browsercomedy wurde ja von der Gläschen übernommen, ne, also Genau. So, ich weiß gar nicht, ich hab das seitdem nicht mehr verfolgt irgendwie. Für mich wurd das immer uninteressanter. Und also ist ja auf jeden Fall nicht mehr aktiv weiterentwickelt, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau. Es\n\nSpeaker 1: gibt nur\n\nSpeaker 3: Sicherheit Updates.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Okay, aber also\n\nSpeaker 2: also nein, das war was anderes.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, dir\n\nSpeaker 0: aber auch nicht\n\nSpeaker 2: sag ich, nee, dir sollte für den dir sollte für den Menschen der AI genau. Und der AI nutzt der Browser sein, das Internet zu navigieren. Okay, also Für Agents oder?\n\nSpeaker 3: Genau, ich für Agents.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, alles klar, aber die Abgrenzung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar, wunderbar. Dennis und ich sind keine Citesurfer. Also, die Hälfte Na ja, wo wir doch 'n Halt Oh, ja, sorry. Ihr seid auch nicht ihr\n\nSpeaker 3: seid auch nicht Doppel d.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, man. Aber wir haben beide Wie wir's mit\n\nSpeaker 4: mit wie Du uns? Sorry. Ja. Oh Gott. Wie hast Du jetzt jede News Folge hier?\n\nJa, man. Aber wir haben beide Wie wir mit\n\nSpeaker 0: Blogpost gelesen. Wow. Das war den ein Blogpost von Startout Dev, das ist son, ah, ich wollt nicht Coding Bootcamp sagen, aber die machen halt schon so Coding Tutorials und und so was gegen Geld. Und die haben einen Blogpost darüber veröffentlicht, wie wichtig oder unwichtig denn Coding Interviews in Zukunft sein werden. Jetzt kann man denen natürlich einen gewissen Standpunkt unterstellen, weil sie halt aus dem Educational Space kommen und den Leuten Coding beibringen wollen.\n\nDarum geht's aber auch gar nicht so, wo die herkommen, sondern das war für uns mal son bisschen anders, darüber nachzudenken, so ja, Coding Interviews. Braucht man das noch? Ist das Kunst oder kann das weg, so ungefähr, ja? Und ich find, dieser Artikel hat son paar interessante Punkte aufgemacht. Also zum einen sprechen Sie natürlich über Ihre eigene Erfahrung auch im Umgang mit mit großen Companys, wo Sie natürlich durch Ihre Ihre Absolventen quasi Insights bekommen, ja?\n\nWie läuft grade Hiring bei bei Meta, bei, bei. Und sie berichten da schon von sehr, wie wie wie soll ich sagen, von von sehr harten Coding Interviews, wo viel Handarbeit gefragt ist ohne AI Input sozusagen, ja. Und und das war ja, wir haben ja auch eine Folge aufgenommen, Dave und ich, die kommt am ersten September.\n\nSpeaker 1: September. Was? Erster.\n\nSpeaker 0: Erster September, die Folge mit Professor Olaf Verden von der DHBW, wo wir auch son bisschen über Informatik, Studium und Ausbildung und so was gesprochen haben. Und deswegen ist das vielleicht hier 'n cooler Übergang, Vorgeschmack dazu schon mal so. Was wird halt irgendwie heute alles noch gebraucht so? Dennis, was war dein erster Takeaway von dem Artikel?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also was ich da vielleicht noch mal kurz herausstellen möchte, weil Sie kritisieren ja son bisschen oder Sie sagen, es gibt diese es gibt diesen Unterschied zwischen dem, was man so auf Social Media sieht und was irgendwie überall gepostet wird. Und da steht halt so, ne, ja, okay, Coding ist irgendwie tot und Du brauchst das nicht mehr. Und ihrer gefühlten Realität, zumindest was den aktuellen Jobmarkt angeht, dass es dort in den Interviews sogar vielleicht eher mehr gefragt ist, als es in der Vergangenheit war, ne. Also erst mal diese diese Diskrepanz irgendwie son bisschen darzustellen. Und ich muss ganz ehrlich sagen, ich ich fand den super supergut, weil er eigentlich all so, also ich geh da komplett mit so, mit all den Takes, die irgendwie da sind, dass man am Ende so zusammengefasst, eigentlich hat sich nicht so wahnsinnig viel bis jetzt geändert an der dem Typ und der Art von Leuten, die man gerne einstellen möchte.\n\nWeil man irgendwie die gleichen Eigenschaften, die halt 'n Entwickler vorher ausgemacht haben und die gleichen Kenntnisse, die man auch vorher fürs Coding gebraucht hat, ähnlich sind, jetzt im Moment oder jetzt auch zukünftig Produkte umzusetzen. So und das heißt, ne, diese diese Abstraktionsebene, die wir uns kümmern, dass die sich 'n bisschen verschoben hat. Aber ja, das Aber\n\nSpeaker 3: ich find's trotzdem, ich hab die Folge ja noch nicht gehört, die aufgenommen noch mal mit dem ersten September, aber trotzdem denk ich, ja, das kannst Du vielleicht jetzt grade dann noch machen, diese Coding Interviews, weil Du halt auch noch die Leute einschätzen und Du jetzt nicht die Juniors einstellst, die im Grunde genommen das Handwerk gelernt haben und das ist immer noch ein guter Indikator, die richtigen Leute einzustellen. So, aber wenn Du jetzt trotzdem mal irgendwie 5 10 Jahre in die Zukunft blickst, es hat trotzdem noch die Frage, warum lernst Du denn dann das Handwerk nur, zu beweisen, dass Du dieser Typus bist? Oder ist es am Ende wirklich noch das, was Du brauchst und was man dann auch irgendwie nachfragt? Also es, wie wie also haben Sie dazu irgendwie Stellung bezogen? Ist das ein Status quo Ding so und Sie glauben nicht, dass es in Zukunft so sein wird?\n\nAlso ich geh, ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: mir ist auch immer wieder auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war ein interessanter Teil von dem Artikel, über den ich auch gestolpert bin, Fabio, weil das, was Du sagst, versuchen Sie in dem Blogpost son bisschen abzufrühstücken mit wie, ja, the Interview, was never about, righting code so, ja? Kann man schon mal mit Vorsicht genießen son Satz, aber sie sagen halt, na ja, die eigentliche Aufgabe des Interviews, ne, ist ja nicht irgendwie zu gucken, ob Du jetzt gut, weiß ich nicht, type Script schreiben kannst oder so. Deshalb ist ja in den meisten Coding Interviews auch vollkommen egal, in welcher Sprache Du schreibst, so, ja. Sondern es geht halt darum, dein dein dein Denkprozess quasi zu erleben, ja. Irgendwie zu sehen, okay, wie näherst Du dich der Lösung?\n\nWie teilst Du das Problem auf? Wie findest Du irgendwie kleine Schritte? Wie gehst Du da ran? Wie iterierst Du darüber et cetera, et cetera? Und da hab ich mir auch gedacht so, ja, das ist ja jetzt grade auch noch praktikabel, ja?\n\nAlso selbst, ob ich jetzt AI nutz oder nicht, ich muss ja irgendwie meistens selber noch irgendwann das das Problem parsen oder so, ja. Aber gleichzeitig gibt's ja schon immer mehr Use Cases, immer mehr Menschen, die auch diesen Teil irgendwie auslagern an AI, ja. Wo wo quasi selbst so das das Zerschneiden von dem Problem irgendwie schon weggegeben wird, weil Du halt deinem Model nur sagst, ja, das ist das Feature, das ich haben möchte, so, das sind meine Anforderungen. Mach mal, so. Und dann selbst dieser vorgelagerte Teil ja quasi schon aus der Hand gegeben wird.\n\nUnd ich frag dich, okay, wenn Du selbst das nicht mehr beobachtest, weil Du das aus der Hand gibst, dann wird's echt langsam schwierig mit diesem Interviewstil, ne?\n\nSpeaker 3: Ja gut, aber wenn Du auf dem Niveau bist, dann ist ja so die Frage, ob Du dann halt auch noch den gleichen Typus suchst, so, ne. Also ich glaub, dann verändert sich halt auch die die Art von Leute, die Du dafür suchst. Dann suchst Du halt auch nicht mehr den, den die Entwickler zumindest mal in der breiten Masse siehst, den Du irgendwie damals gesucht hast, so. Und dann ist das vielleicht auch nicht mehr das Skill, nachdem Du fragst. Also spätestens dann wird sich's ja verändern.\n\nIch glaub, solang solang noch wahrscheinlich, Dennis, Du sagst, so die die die gleiche Art von Typ suche ich, an meinem Team zu arbeiten, wird's vielleicht auch noch da sein, trotzdem glaub ich irgendwie in 'n paar Jahren, so. Ich mein, grade für Absolventen oder für Studienanfänger, warum sollten die's denn noch so lernen, wenn's wirklich nur ist, den Beweis anzutreten?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, nee, klar, das ist ja auch nicht, also das war ja nicht so richtig die Fragestellung von von dem Artikel, wo es eher so tatsächlich den Status quo der Jobinterviews gibt und son bisschen dem entgegenzuwirken, dass man's jetzt nicht mehr braucht. Und Ja. Da fand ich auch spannend, weil sie halt, ne, auch wirklich bei Anthropic und bei OpenAI, also grade die AI Labs sind diejenigen, die ohne AI Coding Challenges stellen und man Probleme lösen muss so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und aber ich bin komplett bei dir, deswegen bin ich auch gespannt auf die Folge, so was ihr da diskutiert habt zu zur Lehre, weil das ist ja sonst mein Take, dass ich sage, na ja, ich würde im Moment jetzt keinem mehr empfehlen, Informatik zu studieren so, ne. Außer die Studiengänge passen sich vielleicht schnell genug an und man lernt irgendwie anderes Zeug, aber halt das, was wir als Informatik studiert haben, würd ich halt heute nicht mehr studieren. Und grade, wenn wir mit diesem Scope dann irgendwie in in Jahren gucken, da würd ich sagen, na ja, irgendwie wird es doch schon anders sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber Dennis, ich bin darüber gestolpert, dass Du vorhin gesagt hast, na ja, so viel hat sich irgendwie ja doch gar nicht geändert.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. So,\n\nSpeaker 0: ja. Und gleichzeitig haben wir doch vor 'n paar, oh Gott, Wochen ist es, glaub ich, schon her, ja, auch unsere eigenen Stellenanzeigen son bisschen angepasst, ne. Was so Wording und und Framing und so was angehen. Da dacht ich mir, okay, also wie\n\nSpeaker 2: wie Absolut, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Passt das zusammen so, wenn Anforderungen sich nicht ändern, aber trotzdem, dass dass Framing sich so verschiebt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich sag, eigentlich ist nur meine Aussage, ich glaub, so so vom vom Typus Mensch irgendwie, wenn man das so generalisieren kann, hat sich vielleicht nicht so viel verändert. Ja, wir haben unsere Stellenausschreibung angepasst und ja, wir haben auch unseren Bewerbungsprozess angepasst und das erstmalig seit irgendwie gefühlt, weiß ich nicht, 15 Jahren, wo wir immer die gleichen Aufgaben hatten, ne. Wir haben jetzt andere Aufgaben, die wir stellen. Wir haben, also wir wir machen tatsächlich eine Aufgabe, wo wir in den letzten Monaten gesagt haben, hey, da kannst Du AI nutzen, weil wir wollen das, was Du im Alltag nutzt, auch irgendwie das Ziel nutzen kannst. Die machen wir jetzt auch strikt ohne AI.\n\nAlso das heißt, wir haben auch eine harte sozusagen ohne ohne Unterstützung Aufgabe.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mit Internet. Dafür dann\n\nSpeaker 2: aber mit Internet, ja. Ja, auch\n\nSpeaker 1: geht das los.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und auf der anderen Seite dann 2 Aufgaben, wo es wo wir gucken wollen, wie man mit AI umgeht. Das heißt, man hat 2 unterschiedliche Aufgabenstellungen zu AI und genau, wir gucken eben den Umgang über zu.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und die Aufgaben, die es bei uns ohne AI zu lösen gibt, ohne jetzt konkret zu sagen Ja. Vielleicht was was ist da so? Aber mich hat sehr überrascht in dem Blogpost, wie low levelig irgendwie diese Beispiele von OpenAI und 'n Tropic irgendwie waren, wo's dann hieß, na ja, bau halt son oder so was mal von Hand, was ja so son klassisches Whiteboard Coding Ding eigentlich ist, ja, wo man eigentlich denken würde, oh Gott, das ist ja schon schon richtig alt irgendwie, ja. Sind wir da so auch auf diesem low leveligen Thema unterwegs oder ist das eher son sone high levelige Aufgabe, die wir ohne AI gelöst sehen wollen? Und warum vielleicht noch ganz nicht verstanden?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also ich glaub, die eine Aufgabe, die wir jetzt nicht mehr im Programm haben, von daher können wir sie wahrscheinlich nennen, das ist das, finde das Minimum mit einem aus Zahlen, so. Mhm. Ne, das ist ja, also hört sich erst mal sehr, also sehr simpel an das Ganze. Und es ist trotzdem, ich find es superspannend über die letzten 10 Jahre, Ja. Wie viel man aus so 1 einfachen Aufgabe irgendwie rauslesen kann.\n\nWeil die Implementierungen superunterschiedlich sind, aber weil auch die Diskussionen darüber superunterschiedlich sind. Und es ist eine so, ein so einfaches Ding und trotzdem kannst Du daran wahnsinnig viel so im Umgang damit, wie spricht man darüber, wie spricht man über Verbesserungssachen und so weiter sprechen kannst, obwohl es so augenscheinlich so so einfach ist. Und ja, also genau, die sind auch eher so. Low levelig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und die AI Aufgaben sind dann aber entsprechend high leveligere Sachen? Mhm. Da hast\n\nSpeaker 2: Du letztendlich 'n einen Projekt und ich glaub, das stand auch son bisschen im Artikel, ne, wo's son bisschen eher darum geht, dann zu zu gucken, wie gehst Du halt mit sonem Projektkontext und AI Wie, ne, kontrollierst Du das, was AI dir irgendwie vorschlägt? Das heißt, Du hast einfach, ne, wie kommst Du in eine Code Base rein? Wie kannst Du da mit AI dir schnell 'n Überblick verschaffen? Wie sagst einfach, ja komm, ist mir alles egal. Wie sehr denkst Du drüber nach, ne?\n\nWeil da dann Fragestellungen sind, die vielleicht von AI eher so beantwortet werden, aber es eigentlich nicht Sinn macht in dem Kontext so, der da ist. Genau. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, superspannend. Ich musste ja, glaub ich, in meinem Leben nur, warum hab ich überhaupt mal son Coding Interview gemacht? Keine Ahnung. Also spannend. So als als Teilnehmer, weiß grad gar nicht.\n\nÜberlegen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Ich nicht. Ich find das\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also für hier auf alle Fälle auch nicht so, ja? Also bei bei Lotung bin ich durch die Tür gekommen, ohne dass 1 gesehen hat, wie ich Coach schreibe. Ob das jetzt richtig oder falsch war, lass doch mal dahingestellt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Nein, das ist, ja, auf jeden Fall spannend.\n\nSpeaker 0: Fabi guckt immer noch son bisschen skeptisch. Fabi glaubt, dass diese Colleing Interviews alle sterben müssen.\n\nSpeaker 3: Nö. Ich ich oder andersrum gesagt, ich glaub, sie werden irgendwann sie werden irgendwann sterben, so. Und wenn wir noch irgendwie und da ist die Frage, auf welche Ebene man halt geht, also ich glaub, ich diese Fragestellung find ich immer noch interessant. Ist halt dann hier die Frage, bleibt man dann komplett auf Pseudocode oder so was oder kriegen wir am Ende irgendwie, ich weiß nicht, hatten wir letztens so irgendwie im Blogpost die Frage, ob am Ende Agenten überhaupt noch die Codingsprache nutzen, die wir jetzt grade nutzen oder machen Sie irgendwas Eigenes und nehmen Sie dann irgendein Format, wo wirklich nur noch in, keine Ahnung, in 'nem, eigentlich auch nur im Textformat irgendwie irgendwelche Blöcke beschrieben würden. Also wahrscheinlich wird irgendwas in die Richtung gehen.\n\nIrgendwie Problemverständnis ja weiterhin das, was wir was man irgendwie rausfinden will. Ich glaub, kann man vorstellen, dass das auch noch sehr lange halten wird. Ich glaub, eher die Frage, wie man ihr Problemverständnis raus, wenn's Codeing am Ende nicht mehr ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und ich finde, wir, also bei all diesen Sachen müssen halt irgendwie, also wir können nicht so langfristig denken. Wir müssen halt gucken, wie der aktuelle Stand ist und so, ne. Also das ist halt einfach, keine Ahnung, wie's in dem Jahr aussieht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ich aber ich erinner mich noch, weil wir waren ja, wir hatten ja eine größere Diskussion bezüglich auch dieser Aufgabe, dieser Programmieraufgabe, Ja. Ob wir die überhaupt noch stellen. Also wir haben die erst vor 'nem Monat nur\n\nSpeaker 0: so, haben\n\nSpeaker 1: wir die hier, glaub ich, erneuert für das Interview. Und da haben wir uns ja auch gestellt, boah, oh, ist das eigentlich noch am Zahn der Zeit, so einfach so Coding Aufgaben zu stellen? Und unser Argument war auch an der Stelle, wie der Artikel ja, glaub ich, auch gesagt hat, dass ich das verstanden habe so, das ist für uns irgendwie 'n sehr guter Proxy dafür, zu schauen, wie so generell ist. So wie geht eine Person einfach an das Problem ran? Und wenn wir dafür, glaub ich, eine 1 bessere Form finden, das zu erkennen, ich glaub, dann wird es auch da abgelöst an der Stelle.\n\nSpeaker 3: Aber es\n\nSpeaker 0: halt, also\n\nSpeaker 1: es dient halt trotzdem gut zu sehen, wie wie ist so einfach vorhanden.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist richtig. Und dann muss man aber auch bei uns aktuell noch sagen, aktuell, also jetzt wirklich heute, heute so, August, würden wir halt wirklich nicht jemanden einstellen wollen für den Bereich, der halt diesen Coding Skill nicht kann, weil wir noch nicht in allen Teams irgendwie auf dem Trip sind und sagen, okay, es ist 100 Prozent agentlich und wir gucken gar nicht mehr rein. Wir machen nur außenrum irgendwelche Produktetscheidungen, gucken, dass es, ne, dass dass die Agenten irgendwie da unterwegs sind und wir eben in unserem Team flexibel einsetzbar sein wollen. Das heißt, ne, ja, das da sind wir einfach statt heute nicht so, aber weiß ich nicht, in 6 Monaten kann ich mir das anders vorstellen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Also ich war einfach nur überrascht, dass Dennis son Array Sorting abfeiert. Ich hätte ich hätte viel skeptischer da einsortiert, aber ist ja auch cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Tja, guck, siehste mal. Wunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Damit sind wir durch für diese Woche, bleiben knapp unter der 15 Minuten Marke hier. Darf mich verabschieden für die nächsten 3 Wochen, da dürft ihr die News ohne mich machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber wir\n\nSpeaker 0: haben ja schon angekündigt, erster September der Deep Dive den Dave nicht aufgenommen haben und in der Woche danach das Special, was Fabio und ich aufgenommen haben. Ich hatte so einen Spaß dabei. Ich hoffe Fabi auch, auch wenn er zwischendurch son bisschen verloren ausgesehen hat. Nee,\n\nSpeaker 3: Spaß hatte ich auf jeden Fall. Wie auch viel Kopfkratzen und viel, ich hab ihm viel gewundert, aber\n\nSpeaker 0: Was ist\n\nSpeaker 2: da das Thema?\n\nSpeaker 0: Die mal das gewünschtes Special über Jans Back up Strategien und Paranoia in der Datenhaltung und so was alles. Das ist Geil. Ja, weiß nicht, ich glaub, es ist unterhaltsam geworden, Fabi, oder? So kann man's auch Ich\n\nSpeaker 3: denk auch, ja. Also, hätte Frage, ob man danach nach der Folge Jan noch ernst nehmen kann, ne, aber ich mein. Also für mich Du hast\n\nSpeaker 0: Du ja überhaupt schon ernst genommen hast, ja. Keine Ahnung ist der Punkt. Aber Aber\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, war ja, auf jeden\n\nSpeaker 3: Fall sehr witzig. Noch trotzdem informativ, ne. Ich bin sehr kritisch dem Gegenüber, hab ich mich gestellt, aber nee, auf jeden Fall viel mitgenommen und trotzdem sehr unterhaltsam war eine gute Frau. Trotzdem nix nix\n\nSpeaker 0: nix nix.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, genau. Ich mach\n\nSpeaker 3: ich werd nichts davon tun, aber ich find's interessant. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ach, wunderbar, wunderbar. Dann verabschieden wir uns hiermit. Feedback wie immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder schreibt uns auf Social Media, wo auch immer ihr uns findet oder hinterlasst uns gerne ein Rating auf iTunes, Spotify. Ja. Wo auch immer.\n\nJa. Wir sagen, ciao.\n\nSpeaker 2: Brautkarten von Doppel d gibt's auch, wenn ihr uns schreibt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gerne jederzeit. Wunderbar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yes, Sir. Dann tschau tschau. Tschüs. Macht's gut. Dankeschön.\n\nTschüssi.",[26077,26088,26095,26101,26105,26110,26123,26127,26136,26140,26145,26150,26159,26165,26169,26181,26188,26199,26210,26214,26219,26224,26228,26237,26241,26245,26254,26258,26264,26273,26277,26287,26299,26303,26309,26314,26318,26322,26335,26348,26361,26374,26385,26397,26407,26411,26415,26421,26430,26437,26441,26448,26452,26461,26465,26469,26473,26478,26485,26490,26494,26500,26507,26511,26515,26519,26524,26527,26531,26535,26545,26549,26555,26559,26570,26583,26587,26599,26603,26607,26611,26620,26624,26629,26634,26639,26642,26650,26655,26659,26663,26667,26672,26680,26684,26688,26699,26703,26707,26711,26715,26718,26731,26739,26743,26755,26768,26781,26787,26791,26804,26817,26826,26832,26841,26849,26855,26861,26865,26871,26882,26886,26891,26898,26908,26912,26916,26923,26936,26943,26949,26954,26957,26968,26972,26985,26989,26996,27000,27008,27021,27033,27036,27042,27048,27056,27062,27066,27078,27091,27097,27101,27114,27125,27131,27135,27144,27149,27157,27160,27168,27181,27192,27198,27211,27223,27229,27233,27246,27259,27271,27283,27291,27295,27304,27316,27320,27327,27340,27352,27356,27368,27381,27394,27406,27419,27432,27442,27452,27460,27465,27475,27486,27491,27502,27506,27510,27514,27519,27523,27527,27531,27539,27543,27547,27557,27561,27566,27575,27580,27592,27605,27613,27618,27628,27641,27650,27663,27667,27671,27684,27697,27710,27714,27726,27733,27741,27744,27753,27757,27761,27770,27774,27778,27791,27795,27801,27807,27811,27817,27830,27842,27852,27860,27872,27878,27890,27893,27899,27908,27913,27919,27931,27939,27947,27955,27959,27972,27976,27980,27984,27994,28001,28006,28012,28016,28026,28032,28036,28040,28050,28058,28066,28070,28081,28085,28090,28095,28106,28111,28115,28120,28130],{"sentences":26078,"speaker":147,"num_words":26087,"start":144,"end":307},[26079,26081,26083,26085],{"text":26080,"start":144,"end":202},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen Newsausgabe der Programmierbar, heute schon in Kalenderwoche 34.",{"text":26082,"start":206,"end":223},"Und die Folge ist voll voll.",{"text":26084,"start":228,"end":254},"Nicht nur an Personen, sondern auch an Themen.",{"text":26086,"start":259,"end":307},"Wir haben heute am Start neben dem Jan Gregor Ing Getriebe noch den",42,{"sentences":26089,"speaker":123,"num_words":26094,"start":310,"end":340},[26090,26092],{"text":26091,"start":310,"end":325},"Dave Acker, David Krusitzky.",{"text":26093,"start":330,"end":340},"Moin, was geht.",7,{"sentences":26096,"speaker":347,"num_words":26100,"start":340,"end":362},[26097,26099],{"text":26098,"start":340,"end":358},"Ich bin Dennis Becker.",{"text":364,"start":358,"end":362},5,{"sentences":26102,"speaker":368,"num_words":26094,"start":362,"end":388},[26103],{"text":26104,"start":362,"end":388},"Und ich bin der Fabi Fin Kai.",{"sentences":26106,"speaker":123,"num_words":26109,"start":392,"end":415},[26107],{"text":26108,"start":392,"end":415},"Und zusammen sind wir Doppel d.",6,{"sentences":26111,"speaker":147,"num_words":26122,"start":420,"end":569},[26112,26114,26116,26118,26120],{"text":26113,"start":420,"end":434},"Wo kommt das her?",{"text":26115,"start":438,"end":460},"Das Nee, ich hab das abgespielt.",{"text":26117,"start":460,"end":500},"Ich wusste, dass wir irgendwann auf Doppel-d kommen, diese Nummer.",{"text":26119,"start":500,"end":553},"Ich wusste nur nicht, dass Dave so schnell dahin kommt, aber ich war dann Zack.",{"text":26121,"start":558,"end":569},"Oh, dich schlecht.",38,{"sentences":26124,"speaker":147,"num_words":26100,"start":573,"end":589},[26125],{"text":26126,"start":573,"end":589},"Oh ja, das war Der",{"sentences":26128,"speaker":368,"num_words":26135,"start":589,"end":658},[26129,26131,26133],{"text":26130,"start":589,"end":602},"war wirklich glatt.",{"text":26132,"start":607,"end":636},"Selbstständig zusammen meint der Dave natürlich nur Dennis und Dave.",{"text":26134,"start":636,"end":658},"Jan und ich haben nichts damit zu tun.",21,{"sentences":26137,"speaker":147,"num_words":18570,"start":663,"end":677},[26138],{"text":26139,"start":663,"end":677},"Genau, erzähl dir mal,",{"sentences":26141,"speaker":368,"num_words":18570,"start":677,"end":692},[26142,26144],{"text":26143,"start":677,"end":688},"was das stimmt.",{"text":262,"start":688,"end":692},{"sentences":26146,"speaker":147,"num_words":26149,"start":692,"end":721},[26147],{"text":26148,"start":692,"end":721},"waren wir waren Jan und wir waren nur Zeugen.",9,{"sentences":26151,"speaker":123,"num_words":26158,"start":725,"end":809},[26152,26154,26156],{"text":26153,"start":725,"end":754},"Jan und Fabi fangen ja auch nicht an mit d Ja.",{"text":26155,"start":759,"end":791},"Dem Namen, deswegen können ja gar nicht Doppel-d sein.",{"text":26157,"start":791,"end":809},"Genau und damit ihr euch",25,{"sentences":26160,"speaker":347,"num_words":26087,"start":809,"end":955},[26161,26163],{"text":26162,"start":809,"end":921},"dich völlig für verrückt erklärt, ganz kurz im Kontext, wir hatten bei Lothum letzten Freitag unser Sommerfest und das war im Festival Style dieses Jahr und wo eigentlich verschiedenste Bands auftreten sollten.",{"text":26164,"start":921,"end":955},"Am Ende a eine professionelle und sehr gute Band Doppel-d.",{"sentences":26166,"speaker":368,"num_words":347,"start":960,"end":967},[26167],{"text":26168,"start":960,"end":967},"Sagte bitte.",{"sentences":26170,"speaker":347,"num_words":26180,"start":971,"end":1084},[26171,26173,26174,26176,26178],{"text":26172,"start":971,"end":986},"Kurz den Namen, noch mal?",{"text":994,"start":986,"end":991},{"text":26175,"start":991,"end":1012},"Fajet liebe Grüße an Fajet.",{"text":26177,"start":1016,"end":1066},"Stehen, was dazu führt, dass wir einfach so, geil, das machen wir, finden wir gut.",{"text":26179,"start":1066,"end":1084},"So, dann war ich 3 Wochen",32,{"sentences":26182,"speaker":147,"num_words":26187,"start":1087,"end":1122},[26183,26185],{"text":26184,"start":1087,"end":1109},"genau so, in in genau diesem Zeitpunkt.",{"text":26186,"start":1109,"end":1122},"Genau so haben",10,{"sentences":26189,"speaker":347,"num_words":26198,"start":1122,"end":1326},[26190,26192,26194,26196],{"text":26191,"start":1122,"end":1133},"wir jetzt abgemacht.",{"text":26193,"start":1133,"end":1227},"Und dann war ich 3 Wochen im Urlaub und dann war hatten wir noch 5 Tage Zeit und dann haben wir gesagt, okay, jetzt brauchen wir 'n Song, jetzt brauchen wir 'n Konzept.",{"text":26195,"start":1231,"end":1300},"Und dann haben wir 'n ein Set auf die Bühne gezimmert mit 3 Songs aus unterschiedlichen Genres und unser Künstlername ist Doppel-d.",{"text":26197,"start":1303,"end":1326},"Und unser erster Song, der rausgekommen heißt, heißt",66,{"sentences":26200,"speaker":123,"num_words":26158,"start":1329,"end":1424},[26201,26203,26205,26206,26208],{"text":26202,"start":1329,"end":1338},"Ist auch Doppel-d.",{"text":26204,"start":1341,"end":1353},"Sehr passend, sehr passend.",{"text":757,"start":1356,"end":1357},{"text":26207,"start":1357,"end":1391},"Also und es war Devi Durst und Devi Druck.",{"text":26209,"start":1391,"end":1424},"Und Devi dicht manchmal, da war's Triple-d, aber",{"sentences":26211,"speaker":368,"num_words":26094,"start":1426,"end":1446},[26212],{"text":26213,"start":1426,"end":1446},"Ja, die Genres waren ja sehr unterschiedlich.",{"sentences":26215,"speaker":147,"num_words":26218,"start":1446,"end":1471},[26216],{"text":26217,"start":1446,"end":1471},"Das war ja das Genre so Mallorca Ballermann",8,{"sentences":26220,"speaker":347,"num_words":18570,"start":1476,"end":1491},[26221,26222],{"text":1480,"start":1476,"end":1477},{"text":26223,"start":1483,"end":1491},"Ne, also Richtig.",{"sentences":26225,"speaker":368,"num_words":26100,"start":1491,"end":1509},[26226],{"text":26227,"start":1491,"end":1509},"Wann geht die Tour los?",{"sentences":26229,"speaker":347,"num_words":26236,"start":1513,"end":1625},[26230,26232,26234],{"text":26231,"start":1513,"end":1543},"Wir lassen uns hoffentlich von Carlo noch mal professionell Abmischen?",{"text":26233,"start":1547,"end":1607},"Abmischen und produzieren und dann geht das erst mal auf Spotify, dann holen wir all die Oh, das ist gut, hier programmierbar.",{"text":26235,"start":1611,"end":1625},"Erst mal alle Programmierer Leute.",37,{"sentences":26238,"speaker":147,"num_words":347,"start":1625,"end":1635},[26239],{"text":26240,"start":1625,"end":1635},"Alter, nee.",{"sentences":26242,"speaker":368,"num_words":26149,"start":1635,"end":1666},[26243],{"text":26244,"start":1635,"end":1666},"Ihr könnt ja auf der Programmiercon vielleicht noch mal",{"sentences":26246,"speaker":147,"num_words":26253,"start":1669,"end":1723},[26247,26249,26251],{"text":26248,"start":1669,"end":1683},"Alles schlecht, alles schlecht.",{"text":26250,"start":1683,"end":1690},"Alles schlecht.",{"text":26252,"start":1690,"end":1723},"Oh, hier wird grade gekocht, man, hier wird grade gekocht hier.",17,{"sentences":26255,"speaker":368,"num_words":347,"start":1723,"end":1733},[26256],{"text":26257,"start":1723,"end":1733},"Wie geht's",{"sentences":26259,"speaker":147,"num_words":26187,"start":1733,"end":1770},[26260,26262],{"text":26261,"start":1733,"end":1745},"zum Frühstück morgens?",{"text":26263,"start":1749,"end":1770},"Aber da sollt ich vielleicht mit dem",{"sentences":26265,"speaker":123,"num_words":26272,"start":1770,"end":1811},[26266,26268,26269,26271],{"text":26267,"start":1770,"end":1786},"Ding auch noch mal üben.",{"text":1793,"start":1790,"end":1791},{"text":26270,"start":1795,"end":1807},"Jetzt wird hier geschossen.",{"text":442,"start":1807,"end":1811},11,{"sentences":26274,"speaker":368,"num_words":347,"start":1814,"end":1820},[26275],{"text":26276,"start":1814,"end":1820},"war doch,",{"sentences":26278,"speaker":347,"num_words":26253,"start":1820,"end":1878},[26279,26281,26283,26285],{"text":26280,"start":1820,"end":1851},"da war doch voll viel Auto Autotune drauf, oder?",{"text":26282,"start":1851,"end":1860},"Bei dir auch.",{"text":26284,"start":1864,"end":1872},"Ich glaub schon.",{"text":26286,"start":1872,"end":1878},"Oh, dann",{"sentences":26288,"speaker":123,"num_words":26298,"start":1880,"end":2016},[26289,26291,26292,26294,26296],{"text":26290,"start":1880,"end":1931},"Ja, aber deswegen ist, ich glaub, ich hab den Kieferkackt tatsächlich, hab den falschen Key gegeben.",{"text":1939,"start":1936,"end":1937},{"text":26293,"start":1937,"end":1957},"Und dadurch klang's 'n bisschen oft.",{"text":26295,"start":1957,"end":2003},"Das heißt, unsere Tontöne wurden korrigiert, ob auf die falsche Tonart ist da.",{"text":26297,"start":2003,"end":2016},"Na ja, Okay,",39,{"sentences":26300,"speaker":368,"num_words":178,"start":2016,"end":2057},[26301],{"text":26302,"start":2016,"end":2057},"aber auch zum anderen, das kann man sagen, gehört auch zum Charme.",{"sentences":26304,"speaker":147,"num_words":26218,"start":2061,"end":2088},[26305,26307],{"text":26306,"start":2061,"end":2067},"Ja, genau.",{"text":26308,"start":2070,"end":2088},"War war mal bewusst so gemacht.",{"sentences":26310,"speaker":368,"num_words":26313,"start":2088,"end":2161},[26311],{"text":26312,"start":2088,"end":2161},"Also lass uns vielleicht mal wissen, ob auf der Programmiercon hier Doppel-d auftreten soll, ob Dave und Dennis 2 Tage vorher noch mal Vollgas geben sollen,",26,{"sentences":26315,"speaker":147,"num_words":26272,"start":2165,"end":2194},[26316],{"text":26317,"start":2165,"end":2194},"noch mal 'n noch keineres Set auf die beiden zu stellen.",{"sentences":26319,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":2198,"end":2202},[26320],{"text":26321,"start":2198,"end":2202},"Sehr gut.",{"sentences":26323,"speaker":147,"num_words":26334,"start":2204,"end":2385},[26324,26326,26328,26330,26332],{"text":26325,"start":2204,"end":2209},"Ja, man.",{"text":26327,"start":2213,"end":2240},"Neben Doppel-d haben wir heute als Themen Paskies.",{"text":26329,"start":2244,"end":2274},"Wir sprechen über Myster Surfing und diesmal nicht von Dennis.",{"text":26331,"start":2278,"end":2342},"Wir sprechen über Deep Sieg und wir diskutieren am Ende noch mal über Coding Interviews und was da grade alles so tut.",{"text":26333,"start":2342,"end":2385},"Aber vorher gibt's ein bisschen Housekeeping und mit dem größten Punkt darf Dennis anfangen.",56,{"sentences":26336,"speaker":347,"num_words":26347,"start":2389,"end":2609},[26337,26339,26341,26343,26345],{"text":26338,"start":2389,"end":2394},"Ja, richtig.",{"text":26340,"start":2394,"end":2473},"Wir hatten's, glaub ich, schon mal in den AI News und auch hier angedeutet, dass wir darüber überlegen, was wir mit unseren Formaten machen, ne.",{"text":26342,"start":2473,"end":2543},"Wir haben ja seit, boah, ich glaub anderthalb Jahren oder wie lang ist das jetzt schon, haben wir angefangen, AI News explizit zu machen.",{"text":26344,"start":2543,"end":2579},"Und die AI News waren in den ersten Monaten wirklich sehr, sehr technisch.",{"text":26346,"start":2579,"end":2609},"Es ging so, ne, wie ist die Architektur da rum?",74,{"sentences":26349,"speaker":347,"num_words":26360,"start":2609,"end":2841},[26350,26352,26354,26356,26358],{"text":26351,"start":2609,"end":2623},"Welche Modelle kommen raus?",{"text":26353,"start":2623,"end":2660},"Es ging die Anzahl der Parameter, Mixedurve, Experts und so weiter.",{"text":26355,"start":2660,"end":2696},"Also sehr so, ja, was was ist so, was die Technologie angeht.",{"text":26357,"start":2700,"end":2806},"Und natürlich merken wir heute, dass irgendwie die regulären News, die eigentlich ja unsere Bubble son bisschen beschreiben, was sind die Tools, was sind die Updates gewesen zu Frameworks et cetera, dass das immer mehr zusammenkommt.",{"text":26359,"start":2811,"end":2841},"Erstens, die ARD News sind immer produktlastiger und tullastiger geworden.",73,{"sentences":26362,"speaker":347,"num_words":26373,"start":2845,"end":3329},[26363,26365,26367,26369,26371],{"text":26364,"start":2845,"end":2917},"Und die normalen News entwickeln sich natürlich auch dahin, weil unser Alltag sich immer mehr darum dreht, dass wir diese Tools einsetzen in unserem täglichen Doing.",{"text":26366,"start":2917,"end":2959},"Und von daher wir nicht mehr so richtig den Sinn sehen, das Ganze aufzusplitten.",{"text":26368,"start":2963,"end":2995},"Und von daher jetzt News aus beiden Bereichen einfach in die News nehmen.",{"text":26370,"start":2999,"end":3160},"Ich glaube, von daher gar nicht mehr so hart irgendwie nur so Modelupdates und das sind die Parameter, die wir jetzt haben, aber das hatten wir in den AI News auch in der letzten Zeit sowieso nicht mehr so stark, sondern eher die Themen nehmen und versuchen da 'n bisschen mehr Kontext zu geben und sie einzuordnen, was unsere Meinung dazu ist.",{"text":26372,"start":3164,"end":3329},"Genau und damit hoffen wir aber auch gerne hier Feedback wie immer an an Podcaster programmierbar, hoffen wir Leute jetzt nicht zu verschrecken, die vielleicht mal am Anfang die a I news gehört haben und gesagt haben, oh, das ist ja gar nichts für uns, sondern das ist natürlich heute viel praxisnäher und näher an dem, was man täglich tut.",175,{"sentences":26375,"speaker":347,"num_words":26384,"start":3331,"end":3552},[26376,26377,26379,26381,26382],{"text":3334,"start":3331,"end":3332},{"text":26378,"start":3336,"end":3421},"Und heute fangen wir, glaub ich, schon, das ist jetzt gar nicht so bewusst vorher entschieden worden, aber es ist sowieso schon ein Mix aus News und NI News, den's länger hier gibt.",{"text":26380,"start":3425,"end":3443},"So wird auch die heutige Folge sollen.",{"text":3334,"start":3447,"end":3448},{"text":26383,"start":3448,"end":3552},"Und Philipp, den ihr exklusiv aus den AI News kennt, ist weiterhin eingeladen und kann je nach Verfügbarkeit gerne dazukommen und ja, wird voraussichtlich auch erst mal weiter alle 14 Tage mit in den News dabei sein.",79,{"sentences":26386,"speaker":147,"num_words":26396,"start":3555,"end":3625},[26387,26388,26390,26392,26394],{"text":3559,"start":3555,"end":3556},{"text":26389,"start":3561,"end":3568},"Das war der 1.",{"text":26391,"start":3568,"end":3578},"Teil vom Housekeeping.",{"text":26393,"start":3582,"end":3591},"Ich mach den Rest.",{"text":26395,"start":3591,"end":3625},"Und zwar haben wir ein Meet-up und zwar am siebzehnten September.",23,{"sentences":26398,"speaker":147,"num_words":26406,"start":3629,"end":3726},[26399,26401,26403,26405],{"text":26400,"start":3629,"end":3673},"Ihr alle wieder herzlich eingeladen, bei uns in Bad Nahem und die Saline zu kommen.",{"text":26402,"start":3673,"end":3693},"Und das ist ein ganz besonderes Meet-up.",{"text":26404,"start":3693,"end":3721},"Wir machen nämlich, was machen wir immer am Ende des Sommers?",{"text":3727,"start":3725,"end":3726},34,{"sentences":26408,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":3730,"end":3738},[26409],{"text":26410,"start":3730,"end":3738},"Programmier Barbecue.",{"sentences":26412,"speaker":147,"num_words":26187,"start":3742,"end":3768},[26413],{"text":26414,"start":3742,"end":3768},"Und es ist ein ganz besonderes Programmier Barbecue, weil Was",{"sentences":26416,"speaker":347,"num_words":26094,"start":3768,"end":3794},[26417,26419],{"text":26418,"start":3768,"end":3779},"ist vielleicht der?",{"text":26420,"start":3779,"end":3794},"Smash Barbecue oder Fabi?",{"sentences":26422,"speaker":368,"num_words":26429,"start":3798,"end":4015},[26423,26425,26427],{"text":26424,"start":3798,"end":3805},"Ja, Smash Burger.",{"text":26426,"start":3808,"end":3982},"Ich werd am Grill stehen, aber nicht, weil ich das besonders gut kann, sondern weil ich's mir eigentlich zeigen lassen möchte, weil der Grischer, der auch schon hier zu Gast war, die sehr gut im Smash Burger machen ist, die sie immer mal probieren wollten, haben gesagt, komm, dann lass doch direkt alle Programmierbarhörer oder die auf dem Meet-up sind zumindest, auch mitprobieren.",{"text":26428,"start":3986,"end":4015},"Und wir stellen uns an den Grill und machen geile Smash Burger für euch.",80,{"sentences":26431,"speaker":147,"num_words":26436,"start":4018,"end":4064},[26432,26434],{"text":26433,"start":4018,"end":4035},"Richtig guter Sales Pitch, Fabi.",{"text":26435,"start":4035,"end":4064},"Ich steh am Grill, weil ich das nicht so gut kann.",16,{"sentences":26438,"speaker":347,"num_words":26100,"start":4067,"end":4082},[26439],{"text":26440,"start":4067,"end":4082},"Nee, ich, nee, ich bin",{"sentences":26442,"speaker":368,"num_words":26447,"start":4082,"end":4116},[26443,26445],{"text":26444,"start":4082,"end":4094},"generell supergut im Grillen.",{"text":26446,"start":4094,"end":4116},"Nur Smash Burger kann ich nicht so gut, aber",13,{"sentences":26449,"speaker":147,"num_words":18570,"start":4116,"end":4127},[26450],{"text":26451,"start":4116,"end":4127},"wir haben das heiße.",{"sentences":26453,"speaker":368,"num_words":26460,"start":4127,"end":4239},[26454,26456,26458],{"text":26455,"start":4127,"end":4179},"Ich mein, wenn jemand das mir das Handwerk zeigt, so ich ich bin schnell im Lernen so.",{"text":26457,"start":4179,"end":4205},"Vielleicht Tipp, nicht den ersten Burger von mir nehmen.",{"text":26459,"start":4208,"end":4239},"Hin so ab dem dritten wird's, glaub ich, richtig geil.",36,{"sentences":26462,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":4239,"end":4247},[26463,26464],{"text":4245,"start":4239,"end":4243},{"text":208,"start":4243,"end":4247},{"sentences":26466,"speaker":147,"num_words":18570,"start":4250,"end":4263},[26467],{"text":26468,"start":4250,"end":4263},"Aber zum Beispiel Burger",{"sentences":26470,"speaker":123,"num_words":26109,"start":4266,"end":4285},[26471],{"text":26472,"start":4266,"end":4285},"hast Du schon mal gegessen, oder?",{"sentences":26474,"speaker":347,"num_words":18570,"start":4287,"end":4297},[26475,26476],{"text":757,"start":4287,"end":4288},{"text":26477,"start":4291,"end":4297},"Also wie viel,",{"sentences":26479,"speaker":368,"num_words":26484,"start":4297,"end":4339},[26480,26482],{"text":26481,"start":4297,"end":4326},"ist nicht ist nicht das, was bei gibt irgendwie Smash?",{"text":26483,"start":4326,"end":4339},"Ich weiß gar nicht genau.",15,{"sentences":26486,"speaker":123,"num_words":26094,"start":4339,"end":4358},[26487,26489],{"text":26488,"start":4339,"end":4353},"Ich ich weiß auch gar nicht.",{"text":4359,"start":4353,"end":4358},{"sentences":26491,"speaker":368,"num_words":26187,"start":4361,"end":4388},[26492],{"text":26493,"start":4361,"end":4388},"Ich hab schon mal 'n Youtube über Smash Burger gesehen.",{"sentences":26495,"speaker":123,"num_words":26149,"start":4388,"end":4413},[26496,26498],{"text":26497,"start":4388,"end":4402},"Ist das Smash Burger am Freitag?",{"text":26499,"start":4402,"end":4413},"Also, ja, okay.",{"sentences":26501,"speaker":147,"num_words":26506,"start":4416,"end":4463},[26502,26504],{"text":26503,"start":4416,"end":4454},"Ja, dass Du das, was bei uns Freitag gibst, das geht schon in die Richtung.",{"text":26505,"start":4454,"end":4463},"Das schon, ja.",18,{"sentences":26508,"speaker":123,"num_words":18570,"start":4463,"end":4476},[26509],{"text":26510,"start":4463,"end":4476},"Ach so, ja okay.",{"sentences":26512,"speaker":147,"num_words":26094,"start":4476,"end":4496},[26513],{"text":26514,"start":4476,"end":4496},"Dann findest Du nicht so geil, oder?",{"sentences":26516,"speaker":347,"num_words":18570,"start":4496,"end":4509},[26517],{"text":26518,"start":4496,"end":4509},"Du Vegetarier findest Du",{"sentences":26520,"speaker":123,"num_words":26523,"start":4511,"end":4595},[26521],{"text":26522,"start":4511,"end":4595},"Nee, das Ding ist, also man muss ja sagen, oft das, was es in Veggie gibt, ist ja immer die schlechtere Variante, ne, deswegen bin ich ja nicht so Hype drauf.",31,{"sentences":26525,"speaker":147,"num_words":123,"start":4595,"end":4599},[26526],{"text":1753,"start":4595,"end":4599},{"sentences":26528,"speaker":347,"num_words":368,"start":4602,"end":4608},[26529],{"text":26530,"start":4602,"end":4608},"Aber ich glaub,",{"sentences":26532,"speaker":368,"num_words":26447,"start":4608,"end":4651},[26533],{"text":26534,"start":4608,"end":4651},"also ich glaub, Grischelt hat was mit Beyond Meet oder so was gemacht.",{"sentences":26536,"speaker":123,"num_words":26484,"start":4654,"end":4696},[26537,26539,26541,26542,26544],{"text":26538,"start":4654,"end":4664},"Die sind wirklich krass.",{"text":26540,"start":4664,"end":4682},"Die Beyond Meet Burger sind wirklich krass.",{"text":1793,"start":4682,"end":4685},{"text":26543,"start":4685,"end":4691},"Also May.",{"text":4694,"start":4691,"end":4696},{"sentences":26546,"speaker":123,"num_words":347,"start":4698,"end":4702},[26547],{"text":26548,"start":4698,"end":4702},"Ich glaube,",{"sentences":26550,"speaker":147,"num_words":26484,"start":4702,"end":4752},[26551,26553],{"text":26552,"start":4702,"end":4716},"wenn irgendwas so gut.",{"text":26554,"start":4719,"end":4752},"Mit den Burgern gibt's am siebzehnten September natürlich auch einen Talk.",{"sentences":26556,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":4756,"end":4763},[26557,26558],{"text":4760,"start":4756,"end":4757},{"text":4765,"start":4762,"end":4763},{"sentences":26560,"speaker":147,"num_words":26158,"start":4763,"end":4840},[26561,26563,26564,26566,26568],{"text":26562,"start":4763,"end":4770},"Ach so.",{"text":26562,"start":4770,"end":4776},{"text":26565,"start":4776,"end":4793},"Das ist ja auch am Mieter.",{"text":26567,"start":4793,"end":4820},"Es gibt auch Content, nicht nur Essen so, ja.",{"text":26569,"start":4823,"end":4840},"Content für Magen und Kopf so.",{"sentences":26571,"speaker":147,"num_words":26582,"start":4842,"end":5209},[26572,26574,26576,26578,26580],{"text":26573,"start":4842,"end":4988},"Und zwar haben wir einen Talk, den es ansonsten bei der Programmiercon gibt für euch quasi als Preview auf die Konferenz und zwar von Tobi, der hier bei uns im BI Team Der wird einen Talk halten über KI Bilder Upscaling und wie das so funktioniert und wie man das am besten betreiben kann.",{"text":26575,"start":4990,"end":5005},"Das wird, glaub ich, auch ganz cool.",{"text":26577,"start":5005,"end":5065},"Da haben wir ja schon, Fabi war da, glaub ich, auch son bisschen mit involviert, was wir hier bei Lotum alles gelernt haben.",{"text":26579,"start":5065,"end":5119},"Und da gibt's, glaub ich, 'n paar coole Insights und Sachen, die man zu Hause nachprobieren kann sozusagen.",{"text":26581,"start":5124,"end":5209},"Deshalb rechtzeitig anmelden unter Programmierpunkt bar, die Anmeldung ist schon da, wählt euch zum Meetup, könnt euch anmelden und dann wissen wir auch, wie viele Burger Fabi vorbestellen muss.",131,{"sentences":26584,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":5213,"end":5219},[26585],{"text":26586,"start":5213,"end":5219},"Sieht's aus.",{"sentences":26588,"speaker":147,"num_words":26598,"start":5222,"end":5371},[26589,26590,26592,26594,26596],{"text":5226,"start":5222,"end":5223},{"text":26591,"start":5228,"end":5271},"Und natürlich darf auch nicht fehlen der obligatorische Hinweis, die Programmiercon fünfundzwanzigster sechsundzwanzigster November.",{"text":26593,"start":5274,"end":5299},"Wir sind im letzten Drittel der Tickets angekommen, so.",{"text":26595,"start":5302,"end":5336},"Und das ist nur noch eine Frage der Zeit, bis hier ausverkauft ist.",{"text":26597,"start":5336,"end":5371},"Von daher, wer jetzt noch keins hat, sollte sich vielleicht beeilen.",48,{"sentences":26600,"speaker":147,"num_words":26109,"start":5374,"end":5392},[26601],{"text":26602,"start":5374,"end":5392},"Wir freuen uns, wenn's schwierig werden.",{"sentences":26604,"speaker":123,"num_words":368,"start":5392,"end":5402},[26605],{"text":26606,"start":5392,"end":5402},"Wir freuen uns,",{"sentences":26608,"speaker":347,"num_words":26109,"start":5402,"end":5420},[26609],{"text":26610,"start":5402,"end":5420},"falls ausverkauft wird, gibt's auch Nachtisch.",{"sentences":26612,"speaker":147,"num_words":26619,"start":5423,"end":5501},[26613,26615,26617],{"text":26614,"start":5423,"end":5436},"Was heißt denn hier, falz?",{"text":26616,"start":5436,"end":5476},"Also wir gehen ja schon davon aus, dass Auswirkungen Sobald es, sobald.",{"text":26618,"start":5480,"end":5501},"Also warte, also es gibt Nachtisch, das",24,{"sentences":26621,"speaker":123,"num_words":18570,"start":5501,"end":5513},[26622],{"text":26623,"start":5501,"end":5513},"ist die Aussage eigentlich.",{"sentences":26625,"speaker":347,"num_words":26218,"start":5516,"end":5541},[26626,26627],{"text":5520,"start":5516,"end":5517},{"text":26628,"start":5522,"end":5541},"Ja, aber das ist doch eine Okay.",{"sentences":26630,"speaker":147,"num_words":26633,"start":5544,"end":5606},[26631],{"text":26632,"start":5544,"end":5606},"Also ich hab das Catering angeboten, hab gesehen, son Nachtisch würde sich lohnen, wenn wir den mitbestellen, Find ich",19,{"sentences":26635,"speaker":123,"num_words":18570,"start":5608,"end":5623},[26636,26637],{"text":5612,"start":5608,"end":5609},{"text":26638,"start":5614,"end":5623},"Würde es geben?",{"sentences":26640,"speaker":347,"num_words":123,"start":5627,"end":5628},[26641],{"text":4359,"start":5627,"end":5628},{"sentences":26643,"speaker":147,"num_words":26436,"start":5631,"end":5674},[26644,26645,26647,26648],{"text":1793,"start":5631,"end":5632},{"text":26646,"start":5635,"end":5651},"Und Dave gibt sein Ticket wieder ab.",{"text":3334,"start":5651,"end":5655},{"text":26649,"start":5658,"end":5674},"Ich bin nicht dabei bei der Konferenz.",{"sentences":26651,"speaker":368,"num_words":26484,"start":5678,"end":5724},[26652,26654],{"text":26653,"start":5678,"end":5720},"Meinte, wir schaffen's eigentlich nur noch 10 Minuten auch noch zu Inhalten zu kommen?",{"text":4359,"start":5720,"end":5724},{"sentences":26656,"speaker":147,"num_words":26272,"start":5727,"end":5757},[26657],{"text":26658,"start":5727,"end":5757},"Doch, ich wollt ja grade den Übergang schon zu Dave machen.",{"sentences":26660,"speaker":347,"num_words":18570,"start":5761,"end":5772},[26661],{"text":26662,"start":5761,"end":5772},"Kurzteste Folge wird heute.",{"sentences":26664,"speaker":147,"num_words":368,"start":5772,"end":5782},[26665],{"text":26666,"start":5772,"end":5782},"Kurzteste Folge ever.",{"sentences":26668,"speaker":123,"num_words":368,"start":5785,"end":5795},[26669,26670],{"text":757,"start":5785,"end":5786},{"text":26671,"start":5790,"end":5795},"Besonders intim.",{"sentences":26673,"speaker":147,"num_words":26187,"start":5799,"end":5831},[26674,26676,26678],{"text":26675,"start":5799,"end":5805},"Oh Gott.",{"text":26677,"start":5805,"end":5824},"Dave, erzähl uns, was zu Paskies.",{"text":26679,"start":5827,"end":5831},"Los geht's.",{"sentences":26681,"speaker":347,"num_words":26100,"start":5831,"end":5848},[26682],{"text":26683,"start":5831,"end":5848},"Oh, der fing noch an.",{"sentences":26685,"speaker":147,"num_words":368,"start":5848,"end":5862},[26686],{"text":26687,"start":5848,"end":5862},"Ah, let's go.",{"sentences":26689,"speaker":123,"num_words":26236,"start":5866,"end":5991},[26690,26691,26693,26695,26697],{"text":5870,"start":5866,"end":5867},{"text":26692,"start":5867,"end":5875},"Nee, genau.",{"text":26694,"start":5875,"end":5923},"Passkis, ich weiß nicht, das habt ihr natürlich auf all euren Informations News Channel mitbekommen.",{"text":26696,"start":5927,"end":5944},"Große Schlagwellen, was Passkis angeht.",{"text":26698,"start":5947,"end":5991},"Sind komplett rib, wurden jetzt gehackt, nicht mehr sicher, alles geht den Bach runter.",{"sentences":26700,"speaker":123,"num_words":26149,"start":5995,"end":6021},[26701],{"text":26702,"start":5995,"end":6021},"Man kann jetzt nicht mehr nutzen, hat eine Hast",{"sentences":26704,"speaker":368,"num_words":368,"start":6021,"end":6031},[26705],{"text":26706,"start":6021,"end":6031},"Du nicht mitbekommen.",{"sentences":26708,"speaker":123,"num_words":26109,"start":6034,"end":6051},[26709],{"text":26710,"start":6034,"end":6051},"Hat eine hat eine Forschungsgruppe herausgefunden.",{"sentences":26712,"speaker":368,"num_words":347,"start":6054,"end":6059},[26713],{"text":26714,"start":6054,"end":6059},"Ah, ja.",{"sentences":26716,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":6062,"end":6067},[26717],{"text":26321,"start":6062,"end":6067},{"sentences":26719,"speaker":123,"num_words":26730,"start":6067,"end":6345},[26720,26722,26724,26726,26728],{"text":26721,"start":6067,"end":6234},"Nee, aber ist tatsächlich so, wenn man jetzt geknackt oder, also 'n, man denkt an Nudeln, aber es ist eher gemein von Dingen, pasta key, pasta key, als Angriff auf, War jetzt relativ groß überall, aber ehrlicherweise, ich hab mal reingeschaut und man muss sagen, ganz so schlimm steht es die jetzt nicht.",{"text":26723,"start":6236,"end":6257},"Vielleicht erst mal so als Kurz anfangen, was sind.",{"text":26725,"start":6257,"end":6292},"Vielleicht auch erst mal generell hier der Hinweis, wir haben auch 'n Deep Dive zu.",{"text":26727,"start":6296,"end":6333},"Kann man, glaub ich, sehr gut an der Stelle anbringen mit der Martina Kraus.",{"text":26729,"start":6337,"end":6345},"Da reden wir über.",95,{"sentences":26732,"speaker":123,"num_words":26158,"start":6348,"end":6415},[26733,26735,26737],{"text":26734,"start":6348,"end":6359},"Coole Folge, gerne reinhören.",{"text":26736,"start":6363,"end":6404},"Auch Werbung für die Programmiercon an der Stelle, weil Martina wird auch da sein auf der Programmiercon.",{"text":26738,"start":6408,"end":6415},"Von daher direkt den",{"sentences":26740,"speaker":147,"num_words":26100,"start":6415,"end":6434},[26741],{"text":26742,"start":6415,"end":6434},"Doppelklick über Passkys sprechen auch.",{"sentences":26744,"speaker":123,"num_words":26754,"start":6436,"end":6562},[26745,26747,26749,26750,26752],{"text":26746,"start":6436,"end":6447},"Oh, okay, sehr gut.",{"text":26748,"start":6447,"end":6464},"Also das ist das ist dreifach passend.",{"text":3334,"start":6467,"end":6468},{"text":26751,"start":6471,"end":6516},"Und zwar, Passkys gelten eigentlich als sehr sicher und eigentlich als der neue, moderne Standard, ne.",{"text":26753,"start":6516,"end":6562},"Das das funktioniert so, Du hast auf dem Server hast Du einen öffentlichen Key, den kennt der Server.",46,{"sentences":26756,"speaker":123,"num_words":26767,"start":6562,"end":6839},[26757,26759,26761,26763,26765],{"text":26758,"start":6562,"end":6637},"Und der fragt dann dich lokal auf deinem Gerät so, hey, was ist denn hier jetzt die passende Antwort und Du hast 'n privaten Key auf deinem Gerät.",{"text":26760,"start":6640,"end":6692},"So, und dann kannst Du dich darüber authentifizieren und hast seine Signatur dahinter und zack, bam bist Du eingeloggt.",{"text":26762,"start":6695,"end":6730},"Und dieses Verfahren gilt als sehr sicher, ne, weil Passwörter können abgegriffen werden.",{"text":26764,"start":6730,"end":6778},"Da ist jetzt etwas so, es braucht diesen öffentlichen Key und den privaten Key, den es nur auf deinem Gerät gibt.",{"text":26766,"start":6780,"end":6839},"So, und was jetzt diese Forschungsgruppe herausgefunden hat, ist nicht, dass per se unsicher sind, sondern man konnte etwas ganz Bestimmtes ausnutzen.",103,{"sentences":26769,"speaker":123,"num_words":26780,"start":6843,"end":7220},[26770,26772,26774,26776,26778],{"text":26771,"start":6843,"end":6950},"Und zwar lag es, wenn man einen Windows PC in Kombination mit diesem Google Passwort Manager gehabt hat, weil das eine Schnittstelle war von diesem Google Passwort Manager, damit das halt synchron auf all deinen Geräten ist, ne.",{"text":26773,"start":6950,"end":7002},"Du hast es irgendwie auf deinem Handy, dann hast Du's noch auf irgendwie deinem Rechner und möchtest das synchron halten.",{"text":26775,"start":7005,"end":7100},"Und da ist das Problem, dass man das, sobald Malware auf deinem Computer schon da war, ne, das heißt also eigentlich, 'n Angreifer hat kompletten Zugriff auf deinen Rechner, dann konnte er die an der Stelle abgreifen.",{"text":26777,"start":7103,"end":7180},"Das war halt auch in dieser speziellen Kombination nur möglich, weil beispielsweise aufm Mac wird das auf sonem bestimmten, ich glaub, tmp heißt es, Plattform abgespeichert.",{"text":26779,"start":7180,"end":7220},"Das ist 'n spezieller Chip, wo halt quasi gar nicht dran gekommen werden kann.",135,{"sentences":26782,"speaker":123,"num_words":26135,"start":7220,"end":7271},[26783,26785],{"text":26784,"start":7220,"end":7248},"So, das ist dann aber auch nur lokal auf dem Gerät verfügbar.",{"text":26786,"start":7251,"end":7271},"Und warum das jetzt passieren konnte, war halt einfach,",{"sentences":26788,"speaker":147,"num_words":26149,"start":7271,"end":7298},[26789],{"text":26790,"start":7271,"end":7298},"weil diese Synchronisation zwischen diesen verschiedenen Plattformen möglich war.",{"sentences":26792,"speaker":123,"num_words":26803,"start":7298,"end":7523},[26793,26795,26797,26799,26801],{"text":26794,"start":7298,"end":7325},"Und dadurch konnte man da, zwischen diesen verschiedenen Plattformen möglich war.",{"text":26796,"start":7325,"end":7378},"Und dadurch konnte man da diese Passies abgreifen, kopieren und dann halt quasi sich selbst damit einloggen auf verschiedenen Plattformen.",{"text":26798,"start":7381,"end":7417},"Von daher, ihr habt das vielleicht 'n bisschen erkannt an dem, was ich gesagt habe.",{"text":26800,"start":7421,"end":7448},"Der der Rechner in diesem Szenario war schon von Malware betroffen.",{"text":26802,"start":7448,"end":7523},"Das heißt, Du eigentlich war der komplette Zugriff schon gegeben und dann konnten die Gaskeys abgegriffen werden, wenn das halt über diesen Google Plattform Manager, Passwort Manager drangegangen wurde.",86,{"sentences":26805,"speaker":123,"num_words":26816,"start":7523,"end":7718},[26806,26808,26810,26812,26814],{"text":26807,"start":7523,"end":7550},"Von daher ist es eigentlich 'n bisschen ein sehr seltsames Szenario.",{"text":26809,"start":7550,"end":7593},"Ich hab nach 'nem passenden Vergleich dafür gesucht, mir ist son Burgenszenario eingefallen.",{"text":26811,"start":7593,"end":7645},"Also quasi, Du bist schon, also die Feinde sind schon in der Burg drin und lassen die Brücke runter.",{"text":26813,"start":7648,"end":7686},"Und dann sagst Du, na ja, der Graben war jetzt nicht so hilfreich bei der Verteidigung.",{"text":26815,"start":7689,"end":7718},"Also das ist irgendwie son bisschen 'n hinfälliger Vergleich an der Stelle.",71,{"sentences":26818,"speaker":123,"num_words":26825,"start":7721,"end":7933},[26819,26821,26823],{"text":26820,"start":7721,"end":7752},"Genau, deswegen, also Paskies sind weiterhin sicher an der Stelle, glaub ich.",{"text":26822,"start":7752,"end":7783},"Es ist ist wichtig zu erwähnen, also die wurden nicht wirklich geknackt.",{"text":26824,"start":7786,"end":7933},"Vielleicht, was man da auch an der Stelle noch sagen können, das hat Martina auch empfohlen, dass man son lokales Gerät hat, also irgendwie son Stick, worauf seine Passkys gespeichert ist, sind und den halt immer mitnimmt und nicht, dass er's halt irgendwie synchronisiert in der Cloud ist oder so, sondern immer ein lokales Gerät an der Stelle parat hat.",84,{"sentences":26827,"speaker":347,"num_words":26831,"start":7933,"end":8019},[26828,26829],{"text":757,"start":7933,"end":7936},{"text":26830,"start":7940,"end":8019},"Ist eine Voraussetzung für, dass da immer son biometrischer Teil irgendwie oder son Teil dabei ist, dass es irgendwo abgesichert liegt und man nur durch beispielsweise Biometrie wieder drankommt?",30,{"sentences":26833,"speaker":123,"num_words":26840,"start":8019,"end":8088},[26834,26836,26838],{"text":26835,"start":8019,"end":8049},"Durch Finger oder Face ID oder so was, ne?",{"text":26837,"start":8049,"end":8071},"Ja, ich glaub, das ist so son Klassiker.",{"text":26839,"start":8071,"end":8088},"Ich glaub, das ist Ja,",22,{"sentences":26842,"speaker":368,"num_words":26313,"start":8088,"end":8162},[26843,26845,26847],{"text":26844,"start":8088,"end":8130},"bei bei bei kommt's jetzt aufm iPhone ja auch mit dem mit dem Passwort dran.",{"text":26846,"start":8130,"end":8145},"Da brauchst Du keine Biometrie.",{"text":26848,"start":8149,"end":8162},"Also nee, das ist keine Bedingung.",{"sentences":26850,"speaker":123,"num_words":26484,"start":8165,"end":8198},[26851,26853],{"text":26852,"start":8165,"end":8194},"Ach nee, glaub ich, das, was man so am häufigsten kennt tatsächlich so.",{"text":26854,"start":8194,"end":8198},"Also es",{"sentences":26856,"speaker":347,"num_words":26523,"start":8201,"end":8287},[26857,26859],{"text":26858,"start":8201,"end":8244},"Es gab keine Bedingung, aber und, nee, daher kommt dann auch das Synchronisieren, ne.",{"text":26860,"start":8244,"end":8287},"Also ich mein, wenn's dann in, ist wahrscheinlich auch wieder ein 1 der Tools, wo synchronisiert ist.",{"sentences":26862,"speaker":147,"num_words":26094,"start":8287,"end":8305},[26863],{"text":26864,"start":8287,"end":8305},"Genau, aber deswegen ist ja die Frage,",{"sentences":26866,"speaker":368,"num_words":26158,"start":8305,"end":8380},[26867,26869],{"text":26868,"start":8305,"end":8359},"also gab's dann irgend 'n Patch für Google Authenticator oder ist es Google Authenticator oder Passwortmanager dafür?",{"text":26870,"start":8359,"end":8380},"Also also ist diese Lücke immer noch offen?",{"sentences":26872,"speaker":123,"num_words":26881,"start":8383,"end":8539},[26873,26875,26877,26879],{"text":26874,"start":8383,"end":8423},"Die sollte, glaub ich, immer noch offen sein, weil das halt quasi per se also gewollt ist.",{"text":26876,"start":8423,"end":8471},"Also Lücke ist aber auch hier in Anführungszeichen zu setzen, weil die halt immer noch diese Synchronisation haben wollen.",{"text":26878,"start":8471,"end":8502},"Und solang diese Synchronisation besteht, ist da halt noch diese Lücke.",{"text":26880,"start":8502,"end":8539},"Ich weiß nicht, ob die jetzt noch was da machen werden, aber aktuell Das heißt, wenn",63,{"sentences":26883,"speaker":368,"num_words":26436,"start":8539,"end":8582},[26884],{"text":26885,"start":8539,"end":8582},"wir grade das Waldbüro one Passwort hatten, ist es denn da dann auch theoretisch die Lücke?",{"sentences":26887,"speaker":123,"num_words":26890,"start":8586,"end":8650},[26888],{"text":26889,"start":8586,"end":8650},"Genau, das wär dann auch da, bei bei dem wär das genau die Lücke auch, solang das über Geräte synchronisiert wird und diese Schnittstelle dann halt verfügbar ist.",28,{"sentences":26892,"speaker":347,"num_words":26897,"start":8652,"end":8725},[26893,26895],{"text":26894,"start":8652,"end":8699},"Ja, also wenn Du, das würde genauso bedeuten, wenn Du Zugriff auf one Passwort hast durch irgendeine Genau.",{"text":26896,"start":8703,"end":8725},"Netzwerke, dann hast Du auch Zugriff auf die Passkeys.",27,{"sentences":26899,"speaker":123,"num_words":26180,"start":8729,"end":8810},[26900,26901,26903,26905,26906],{"text":3334,"start":8729,"end":8730},{"text":26902,"start":8734,"end":8756},"Deswegen dieses Szenario war ja auch so, ne, die Malware.",{"text":26904,"start":8756,"end":8793},"Also Du bist schon, also Du hast die voll volle Kontrolle über das Gerät.",{"text":757,"start":8793,"end":8796},{"text":26907,"start":8796,"end":8810},"So, das ist ja das Szenario.",{"sentences":26909,"speaker":123,"num_words":26149,"start":8810,"end":8829},[26910],{"text":26911,"start":8810,"end":8829},"Deswegen ist es son bisschen hanebüchen an der Stelle.",{"sentences":26913,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":8832,"end":8839},[26914,26915],{"text":8836,"start":8832,"end":8833},{"text":1793,"start":8838,"end":8839},{"sentences":26917,"speaker":123,"num_words":26149,"start":8839,"end":8870},[26918,26920,26922],{"text":26919,"start":8839,"end":8860},"So, deswegen, also weiterhin, sind sicher.",{"text":26921,"start":8863,"end":8867},"Let's go.",{"text":1793,"start":8869,"end":8870},{"sentences":26924,"speaker":147,"num_words":26935,"start":8873,"end":9056},[26925,26927,26929,26931,26933],{"text":26926,"start":8873,"end":8879},"Ganz ohne.",{"text":26928,"start":8883,"end":8897},"Wo warst Du grade, Jan?",{"text":26930,"start":8897,"end":8937},"Du hast gerade mit dem Kopf geschüttelt und musst erst mal nach Luft schnappen.",{"text":26932,"start":8940,"end":8998},"Ich hatte grade son Übergang im Kopf und dann muss man den wieder verwerfen und man darf ja auch nicht alles sagen, was man denkt.",{"text":26934,"start":9001,"end":9056},"Deswegen einfach, Dennis wollte uns was zu AI Plattformen und Infrastrukturanbietern erzählen und hat gleich 2 Themen mitgebracht, so.",65,{"sentences":26937,"speaker":147,"num_words":26447,"start":9060,"end":9101},[26938,26939,26941],{"text":9062,"start":9060,"end":9061},{"text":26940,"start":9065,"end":9081},"Verstößt hier gegen unsere Regel, ne.",{"text":26942,"start":9081,"end":9101},"Ein Host, ein Thema, aber wir",{"sentences":26944,"speaker":347,"num_words":26484,"start":9104,"end":9143},[26945,26947],{"text":26946,"start":9104,"end":9118},"Ja, dafür mach ich, pass auf.",{"text":26948,"start":9118,"end":9143},"Dafür mach ich 1 davon in in 2 Sätzen.",{"sentences":26950,"speaker":123,"num_words":18570,"start":9146,"end":9158},[26951,26952],{"text":9062,"start":9146,"end":9147},{"text":26953,"start":9151,"end":9158},"Ich bin gespannt.",{"sentences":26955,"speaker":147,"num_words":123,"start":9161,"end":9162},[26956],{"text":1793,"start":9161,"end":9162},{"sentences":26958,"speaker":347,"num_words":26967,"start":9166,"end":9335},[26959,26961,26963,26965],{"text":26960,"start":9166,"end":9222},"Stripe ist ein Zahlungsanbieter, den man aus dem Internet kennt, weil dort ganz viele Rechnungen und so was drüber laufen.",{"text":26962,"start":9222,"end":9270},"Und die sollen wohl, das ist ein Gerücht noch nicht bestätigt, Open Router übernehmen.",{"text":26964,"start":9274,"end":9327},"Ein KI Start-up, das dafür zuständig ist, gesammelt, Zugänge und Abrechnung für KI Anbieter zu leisten.",{"text":26966,"start":9327,"end":9335},"Das war Einsatz.",53,{"sentences":26969,"speaker":147,"num_words":26484,"start":9339,"end":9380},[26970],{"text":26971,"start":9339,"end":9380},"Das war Einsatz mit sehr vielen Komma und Kollektionen, aber aber lassen Sie mal gelten.",{"sentences":26973,"speaker":347,"num_words":26984,"start":9383,"end":9609},[26974,26976,26978,26980,26982],{"text":26975,"start":9383,"end":9394},"Ja, so und der 2.",{"text":26977,"start":9394,"end":9431},"Ist jetzt, man munkelt, es sind 7000000000 Dollar, die dafür bezahlt werden sollen.",{"text":26979,"start":9434,"end":9476},"Und der Open Router CEO hat damals auch halt irgendwie sein Tool als Stripe für KI bezeichnet.",{"text":26981,"start":9476,"end":9508},"Vielleicht hat das bei Stripe geklingelt und gesagt, oh, das sollte unser Tool sein.",{"text":26983,"start":9508,"end":9609},"Aber trotzdem natürlich sicher interessant, dass son Zahlungsanbieter, der bis jetzt wenig mit KI zu tun hat, sich da jetzt so positioniert und dann irgendwie der, ja, der der der Verkaufshahn für Tokens auch in der Zukunft sein soll.",88,{"sentences":26986,"speaker":347,"num_words":26100,"start":9613,"end":9626},[26987],{"text":26988,"start":9613,"end":9626},"Aber ist das alles gehört.",{"sentences":26990,"speaker":368,"num_words":26995,"start":9626,"end":9698},[26991,26993],{"text":26992,"start":9626,"end":9658},"Gibt's dazu einfach irgend 'n bisschen Kontext so, warum Sie das Ganze machen?",{"text":26994,"start":9658,"end":9698},"Es passt ja wirklich nicht so ganz so, also man munkelt so, bis das einfach Ich",29,{"sentences":26997,"speaker":147,"num_words":18570,"start":9698,"end":9708},[26998],{"text":26999,"start":9698,"end":9708},"find, das passt voll.",{"sentences":27001,"speaker":347,"num_words":26429,"start":9710,"end":9933},[27002,27004,27006],{"text":27003,"start":9710,"end":9809},"Na ja, also genau, es hier steht halt son bisschen, ne, ne, kann halt einfach Riesenmengen so an Abwicklung von latenz- und verfügbarkeitskritischen Abrechnungen und so was einfach sehr, sehr gut und haben halt die Zahlungsinfrastruktur.",{"text":27005,"start":9813,"end":9894},"Und von daher, ist ja letztendlich auch nur so ein auch nur so ein Gateway zu verschiedensten Modellen und Anbietern, wo Geld und Zahlung ein sehr wichtiger Aspekt sind.",{"text":27007,"start":9897,"end":9933},"Und von daher, ja, kann man sich, glaub ich, schon das irgendwie ganz gut vorstellen.",{"sentences":27009,"speaker":147,"num_words":27020,"start":9936,"end":10139},[27010,27012,27014,27016,27018],{"text":27011,"start":9936,"end":9966},"Also Stripe hat einfach das Gateway Playbook erfunden, so, ja?",{"text":27013,"start":9966,"end":10055},"Du kannst irgendwie mit 200 verschiedenen Zahlungsdienstleistern zusammenarbeiten, musst nur mit 1 API reden und irgendjemand anderes kümmert sich darum, dass die Kunden schon beim richtigen Payment Provider landen, so.",{"text":27015,"start":10055,"end":10075},"Das ist halt genau dasselbe wie Open Router.",{"text":27017,"start":10075,"end":10113},"Also Du bindest eine API an, Du konfigurierst son bisschen im Backend.",{"text":27019,"start":10117,"end":10139},"Ist es mir wichtig, dass weiß ich nicht, ne?",69,{"sentences":27022,"speaker":147,"num_words":27032,"start":10139,"end":10279},[27023,27025,27027,27029,27031],{"text":27024,"start":10139,"end":10172},"Besonders schwierige Anfragen bei diesem Model landen, besonders einfache bei diesem Model.",{"text":27026,"start":10175,"end":10204},"Anfragen aus China dürfen nur von chinesischen Models beantwortet werden.",{"text":27028,"start":10204,"end":10242},"Anfragen aus Amerika können von beantwortet werden, europäische vielleicht nicht, keine Ahnung, whatever so.",{"text":27030,"start":10242,"end":10275},"Ja, das haben die, also das das können die halt einfach schon, so.",{"text":10280,"start":10278,"end":10279},50,{"sentences":27034,"speaker":147,"num_words":123,"start":10282,"end":10283},[27035],{"text":10280,"start":10282,"end":10283},{"sentences":27037,"speaker":368,"num_words":26109,"start":10285,"end":10301},[27038,27040],{"text":27039,"start":10285,"end":10296},"Das war meine Zeit.",{"text":27041,"start":10296,"end":10301},"Jetzt habt",{"sentences":27043,"speaker":347,"num_words":26484,"start":10301,"end":10343},[27044,27046],{"text":27045,"start":10301,"end":10335},"ihr das jetzt habt ihr das Größer gemacht als ich wollte, das Thema.",{"text":27047,"start":10339,"end":10343},"Was ja",{"sentences":27049,"speaker":368,"num_words":26840,"start":10343,"end":10406},[27050,27052,27054],{"text":27051,"start":10343,"end":10356},"sonst nie passiert, ne?",{"text":27053,"start":10356,"end":10394},"Weil wir können einfach 2 Sätze zum Thema sagen und dann kommt das nächste.",{"text":27055,"start":10394,"end":10406},"Also das wär ja",{"sentences":27057,"speaker":147,"num_words":26447,"start":10409,"end":10451},[27058,27060],{"text":27059,"start":10409,"end":10414},"Genau, genau.",{"text":27061,"start":10417,"end":10451},"Das kommt man ja nicht zum ruhig an Fragen stellen, dass",{"sentences":27063,"speaker":368,"num_words":26218,"start":10453,"end":10473},[27064],{"text":27065,"start":10453,"end":10473},"dass da irgendwie eine 1 Unterhaltung dafür entsteht.",{"sentences":27067,"speaker":347,"num_words":26803,"start":10477,"end":10708},[27068,27070,27072,27074,27076],{"text":27069,"start":10477,"end":10494},"Schön, dass ihr darauf eingegangen seid.",{"text":27071,"start":10494,"end":10513},"Vielen Dank für den weiteren Kontext.",{"text":27073,"start":10517,"end":10525},"Nächstes Thema, Mistral.",{"text":27075,"start":10529,"end":10641},"Ist ja 1 der Anbieter, die wir immer mal wieder ganz gerne erwähnen, weil es eben ein europäischer Anbieter ist und 1 von den wenigen, die auch einige große Modelle trainiert haben und die auch immer mal wieder hier getestet wurden, wie weit sie damit mittlerweile sind.",{"text":27077,"start":10641,"end":10708},"Und da gibt es ganz interessante Änderungen, weil sie sich ein bisschen öffnen und praktisch so der Vorreiter sein wollen für Europas KI Infrastruktur.",{"sentences":27079,"speaker":347,"num_words":27090,"start":10711,"end":11059},[27080,27082,27084,27086,27088],{"text":27081,"start":10711,"end":10755},"Also nicht mehr zwangsweise die Modelle nur noch bereitzustellen, sondern es geht vor allen Dingen Rechenkapazität.",{"text":27083,"start":10759,"end":10889},"Und da ist es zum einen so, dass Sie Partner jetzt gesucht haben, die sehr langfristig Rechenkapazität dort kaufen und einfach sich sehr lange committen, damit diese Infrastruktur überhaupt dann erstellt werden kann und damit man halt absehen kann, okay, das ist das, was wir an konkreten Zusagen haben.",{"text":27085,"start":10892,"end":10961},"Und da sind, keine Ahnung, Capgemini, Amadeus, also 'n paar größere Firmen so, die in Europa auch viel unterwegs sind, sind mit dabei.",{"text":27087,"start":10961,"end":11007},"Und unter anderem auch Microsoft, die auch zugesichert haben über ja, also 1000000000 schwere Partnerschaft.",{"text":27089,"start":11007,"end":11059},"Wie viele Milliarden weiß man jetzt nicht, aber die da auch dann verbraucht werden sollen auf der Infrastruktur von Mysteral.",123,{"sentences":27092,"speaker":347,"num_words":26180,"start":11063,"end":11151},[27093,27095],{"text":27094,"start":11063,"end":11123},"Und genau, das heißt, Mistral nannte so als Ziele, dass bis Ende 2027 die europäische Rechenkapazität auf 200 Megawatt wachsen soll.",{"text":27096,"start":11125,"end":11151},"Wusste auch nicht, dass man das mittlerweile einfach nur nur in",{"sentences":27098,"speaker":368,"num_words":26094,"start":11151,"end":11172},[27099],{"text":27100,"start":11151,"end":11172},"Stromverbrauch ausdrückt irgendwie, wie viel das ist.",{"sentences":27102,"speaker":347,"num_words":27113,"start":11172,"end":11364},[27103,27105,27107,27109,27111],{"text":27104,"start":11172,"end":11184},"Ist das schon häufiger?",{"text":27106,"start":11184,"end":11204},"Weiß nicht, ist das schon länger der Standard?",{"text":27108,"start":11207,"end":11290},"Na ja, auf jeden Fall aktuell haben sie da schon ein Rechenzentrum mit 44 Megawatt, was sie grade aufbauen, wofür sie schon 830000000 Dollar Schulden erst mal aufnehmen mussten.",{"text":27110,"start":11290,"end":11333},"Also ist einfach sehr viel Geld, was da mit dem Spiel ist und das überhaupt machen zu können.",{"text":27112,"start":11333,"end":11364},"Und dafür das Geld zu bekommen, sind eben diese Partnerschaften nötig.",70,{"sentences":27115,"speaker":347,"num_words":27124,"start":11368,"end":11790},[27116,27118,27120,27122],{"text":27117,"start":11368,"end":11586},"Und ja, dann ist eben das das das Spannende, also dass man dann eben bei Misstrauen sagen kann, hey, ich möchte die über euch kaufen und ich möchte halt sicherstellen, dass das einfach auf europäischer Hardware läuft und man wird es dann auch noch zusätzlich sagen können, es soll ausschließlich eben auf Hardware von misstral laufen und nicht mehr auch auf anderen rechtensenden großen, rechtensenden großer Cloud Anbieter, die's in Europa gibt, was im Moment bei Mysteral Modellen auch noch so sein kann.",{"text":27119,"start":11588,"end":11687},"Und was dann damit einhergeht, dass Mysteral nicht mehr wie bisher nur ihre eigenen Modelle im Angebot hat, sondern sich jetzt eben auch öffnet und einzelne externe Modelle anbietet, die dann über die gleiche Infrastruktur zu haben sind.",{"text":27121,"start":11687,"end":11763},"Aktuell ist nur ein einziges Modell, Open Way Modell, nämlich das GLM 5 Punkt 2 dort verfügbar, aber das werden dann eben in der Zukunft auch mehr werden.",{"text":27123,"start":11763,"end":11790},"Also tatsächlich einfach mehr Infrastruktur und nicht mehr nur eigene Modelle entwickeln.",161,{"sentences":27126,"speaker":147,"num_words":178,"start":11793,"end":11822},[27127,27129],{"text":27128,"start":11793,"end":11807},"Das waren jetzt mehr als 2 Sätze.",{"text":27130,"start":11810,"end":11822},"Ja, das hab ich Heute",{"sentences":27132,"speaker":347,"num_words":26094,"start":11822,"end":11841},[27133],{"text":27134,"start":11822,"end":11841},"auf den Fragen haben wir nicht versprochen.",{"sentences":27136,"speaker":147,"num_words":26094,"start":11845,"end":11873},[27137,27138,27140,27141,27143],{"text":3334,"start":11845,"end":11846},{"text":27139,"start":11849,"end":11856},"Mal beschlossen.",{"text":11863,"start":11860,"end":11861},{"text":27142,"start":11861,"end":11869},"Immer fertig.",{"text":1793,"start":11872,"end":11873},{"sentences":27145,"speaker":147,"num_words":26109,"start":11877,"end":11891},[27146,27147],{"text":3559,"start":11877,"end":11878},{"text":27148,"start":11880,"end":11891},"Dave hat doch eine Frage.",{"sentences":27150,"speaker":123,"num_words":26436,"start":11894,"end":11939},[27151,27153,27154,27156],{"text":27152,"start":11894,"end":11923},"Ich ich hab nur überlegt, Du hast auch Microsoft erwähnt, oder?",{"text":1939,"start":11923,"end":11926},{"text":27155,"start":11926,"end":11935},"Die da investieren.",{"text":1939,"start":11938,"end":11939},{"sentences":27158,"speaker":147,"num_words":123,"start":11939,"end":11941},[27159],{"text":349,"start":11939,"end":11941},{"sentences":27161,"speaker":123,"num_words":27167,"start":11941,"end":12075},[27162,27164,27166],{"text":27163,"start":11941,"end":12041},"frag mich halt nur von wegen, also wenn wenn jetzt trotzdem ein US amerikanisches Unternehmen da ja investiert, was das für Implikationen hat, von wegen, hey, wir sind jetzt hier komplett in der EU und so was alles?",{"text":27165,"start":12045,"end":12069},"Also was sich dann bei Microsoft an der Stelle verspricht?",{"text":12077,"start":12074,"end":12075},49,{"sentences":27169,"speaker":347,"num_words":27180,"start":12079,"end":12442},[27170,27172,27174,27176,27178],{"text":27171,"start":12079,"end":12156},"sie erst mal nur das Geld bereitstellen, ist, glaub ich, dass erst mal aus dieser Sicht von, ne, was liegt hier und wie souverän sind wir irgendwie in dem Umgang damit?",{"text":27173,"start":12156,"end":12167},"Ist es relativ unkompliziert.",{"text":27175,"start":12170,"end":12230},"Man muss ja schon auch sagen, dass Microsoft durch diesen Business- und Konzer Zusammenhang ja schon auch viel in die Richtung gemacht hat, ne.",{"text":27177,"start":12230,"end":12380},"Also ich mein, die sind mit Azure, glaub ich, so auch immer die Vorreiter gewesen, wo man sagt, das ist alles in Europa und das gibt die eigene Cloud und das alles nur für euch und so Also die haben einfach viele, viele Businesskunden, die sehr interessiert daran sind und die von den Richtlinien halt brauchen, dass die Daten in den EU liegen.",{"text":27179,"start":12380,"end":12442},"Und ich glaube, das ist das Interesse, warum Microsoft da sagt, okay, da wollen wir auch mit investieren, dass dass diese Möglichkeiten dort gibt.",146,{"sentences":27182,"speaker":147,"num_words":27191,"start":12444,"end":12629},[27183,27185,27187,27188,27190],{"text":27184,"start":12444,"end":12536},"Und wahrscheinlich auch 1 der wenigen Player, die so bereit wären, ihre eigenen profitären Modelle son bisschen aus der Hand zu geben und woanders gehostet zu lassen, eben genau diese Kunden halt irgendwie zu bedienen, ne.",{"text":27186,"start":12536,"end":12579},"Also ich kann mir vorstellen, dass Microsoft seine Modelle dahergibt, aber halt Open AI nicht so, ne.",{"text":1939,"start":12581,"end":12582},{"text":27189,"start":12582,"end":12625},"Und deswegen ist da vielleicht auch schon mal gut, son halben Fuß in der Tür zu haben.",{"text":12631,"start":12628,"end":12629},72,{"sentences":27193,"speaker":147,"num_words":26253,"start":12633,"end":12679},[27194,27196],{"text":27195,"start":12633,"end":12664},"Wenn wir schon von großen Labs sprechen oder kleineren Labs, weiß nicht.",{"text":27197,"start":12667,"end":12679},"Fabi, was gibt's von DeepSyk?",{"sentences":27199,"speaker":368,"num_words":27210,"start":12683,"end":13025},[27200,27202,27204,27206,27208],{"text":27201,"start":12683,"end":12750},"DeepSyk hat ein Agenthanness rausgebracht und wenn man auf die Homepage geht, schreiben wir von, als son bisschen das Verkaufsargument da hintendran.",{"text":27203,"start":12750,"end":12783},"Aber es gibt, glaub ich, 'n paar Punkte, warum das interessant ist, ne.",{"text":27205,"start":12783,"end":12926},"Also ich mein, Harnes ist ja sozusagen für alle, die denen's immer noch kein Begriff ist, sozusagen ist ja das LLM, das Modell ist die Intelligenz und Harnes sozusagen alles drum herum, also irgendwie der Agent Loop, wie die Modelle aufrufen, die Tools, das System prompt, Kontext Management und so weiter.",{"text":27207,"start":12926,"end":12961},"Also Cloud Code ist 'n Harnes, Codex ist 'n Harnes und so weiter.",{"text":27209,"start":12961,"end":13025},"Gibt auch einige Open Source und jetzt Deepseak hat eben so eigene Harnes rausgebracht und genau, also eine einerseits ist so, was meinen Sie mit?",124,{"sentences":27212,"speaker":368,"num_words":26935,"start":13029,"end":13198},[27213,27215,27217,27219,27221],{"text":27214,"start":13029,"end":13050},"Damit meinen Sie wirklich, alles ist ein Plug in.",{"text":27216,"start":13050,"end":13088},"Also als Beispiel, weil Cloud Code, was wir haben ja, was haben wir für Anbindung?",{"text":27218,"start":13088,"end":13146},"MCP zum Beispiel als Service, verschiedene verschiedene proprietäre Plug ins, aber zum Beispiel, der Agent Loop ist fix, so.",{"text":27220,"start":13146,"end":13167},"Also der ist halt in Cloud Code mit reingebacken so.",{"text":27222,"start":13167,"end":13198},"Das hat halt in Shopic einem entschieden, wie funktioniert der Agent Loop?",{"sentences":27224,"speaker":368,"num_words":26406,"start":13198,"end":13289},[27225,27227],{"text":27226,"start":13198,"end":13238},"Aber zum Beispiel beim Hannes von Deepsek ist auch der Agent Loop selbst ein Plug in.",{"text":27228,"start":13238,"end":13289},"Also alles, was aufgerufen wird, ist ist kompositionierbar und austauschbar und selbst der Agent Loop ist ist austauschbar.",{"sentences":27230,"speaker":147,"num_words":26100,"start":13293,"end":13303},[27231],{"text":27232,"start":13293,"end":13303},"Und ich glaub, das ist",{"sentences":27234,"speaker":368,"num_words":27245,"start":13303,"end":13695},[27235,27237,27239,27241,27243],{"text":27236,"start":13303,"end":13397},"auf jeden Fall ein ganz interessanter Teil daran, ob das jetzt wirklich gut ist oder irgendwie gebraucht wird, darüber scheint, darüber ist auf jeden Fall sich die Community, würd ich sagen, auch noch nicht so ganz einig darüber.",{"text":27238,"start":13397,"end":13465},"Also die einen sagen halt so, hey, also das ist das das ist das neue Framework Framework so und das wird auf jeden Fall der neue Standard werden.",{"text":27240,"start":13465,"end":13613},"Und so sollte, weil ja auch grade der Agent selbst auch die Plug ins Schreiben könnte, austauschen könnte, weil's auch zum Beispiel so ist, dass es ausgetauscht werden kann, nicht wie wie bei VS Code, wenn eine Extension irgendwie gewechselt wird, dass dann der Host gestaltet werden muss, sondern es kann zur Laufzeit gemacht werden, jedes Plug in irgendwie ausgetauscht.",{"text":27242,"start":13613,"end":13673},"Bringt natürlich auch 'n bisschen mit sich, weil's 'n bisschen komplizierter ist, als irgendwie eine MTP zu restaten, aber ist grundsätzlich möglich.",{"text":27244,"start":13673,"end":13695},"Aber es braucht natürlich auch viel mehr Konfiguration, ne.",157,{"sentences":27247,"speaker":368,"num_words":27258,"start":13695,"end":13951},[27248,27250,27252,27254,27256],{"text":27249,"start":13695,"end":13769},"Also man muss eben darum Gedanken machen und ist halt die Frage, ob dieses, wenn es nicht mehr so richtig Plug and play ist, ob der Markt dafür groß genug ist.",{"text":27251,"start":13772,"end":13796},"Aber ich denk, das wird jetzt die Zukunft son bisschen zeigen.",{"text":27253,"start":13796,"end":13858},"Ich mein, das Schöne ist, Deep Sick ist natürlich auch komplett modelagnostisch, also was man da irgendwie wählt, kann man komplett entscheiden.",{"text":27255,"start":13858,"end":13924},"Die haben's natürlich son bisschen aufgesetzt, dass per Default man relativ einfach da die Deep Sick App hier irgendwie anbinden kann, aber es ist komplett offen.",{"text":27257,"start":13924,"end":13951},"Und grade auch, was offen angeht, glaub ich, der 2.",100,{"sentences":27260,"speaker":368,"num_words":26360,"start":13951,"end":14166},[27261,27263,27265,27267,27269],{"text":27262,"start":13951,"end":13980},"Punkt, der ganz interessant ist, dass es einen Session Log gibt.",{"text":27264,"start":13980,"end":14045},"Also alles, was das Modell sieht, landet in einem Session Log, also System prompt, zu Riesening Schritte, Tool Calls, Contact Injection.",{"text":27266,"start":14049,"end":14091},"Und so kann sich im Grunde genommen alle Sessions derzeit lassen, durchsuchen und auch replain lassen.",{"text":27268,"start":14091,"end":14125},"Und das ist ja eigentlich sozusagen der spannendste Kontrast zum Rest vom Markt.",{"text":27270,"start":14125,"end":14166},"Also mittlerweile zeigt ja noch Zusammengefasste statt roher Reasoning Traces und so.",{"sentences":27272,"speaker":368,"num_words":26816,"start":14166,"end":14355},[27273,27275,27277,27279,27281],{"text":27274,"start":14166,"end":14239},"Und sie sagen ja, die Begründung da hinten dran ist, die Destillation zu erschweren so, aber Deep Sieg macht ja genau das Gegenteil und legt alles offen.",{"text":27276,"start":14239,"end":14291},"Und das ist natürlich für Debugging, für das Verständnis, warum 'n Agent irgendwas getan hat, auf jeden Fall Gold wert.",{"text":27278,"start":14294,"end":14318},"Und ich glaub, das sind so die beiden interessanten Dinge.",{"text":27280,"start":14321,"end":14337},"Ansonsten probiert's einfach gerne mal aus.",{"text":27282,"start":14337,"end":14355},"Ich glaub, es ist noch halt ziemlich so.",{"sentences":27284,"speaker":368,"num_words":26384,"start":14355,"end":14571},[27285,27287,27289],{"text":27286,"start":14355,"end":14466},"Also einige schreiben auch, die Dokumentation liest sich son bisschen wie son Wortsalat irgendwie und ist irgendwie, teilweise merkt man vielleicht auch einiges irgendwie von ri geschrieben und nicht ganz so klar, aber ist supereinfach auszuprobieren, per NPX einfach installierbar.",{"text":27288,"start":14470,"end":14527},"Dann kann man mal ausprobieren, aber viele sagen auch, gibt dem Ganzen noch mal 'n paar Monate, ist MIT lizenziert, Open Source.",{"text":27290,"start":14531,"end":14571},"Klingt auf jeden Fall ganz interessant und Deep SEK ja auch ein großer Player da im Markt.",{"sentences":27292,"speaker":147,"num_words":347,"start":14573,"end":14578},[27293,27294],{"text":1939,"start":14573,"end":14574},{"text":4273,"start":14577,"end":14578},{"sentences":27296,"speaker":123,"num_words":27303,"start":14578,"end":14662},[27297,27299,27301],{"text":27298,"start":14578,"end":14599},"hast Du hast grade gesagt, alles ist 'n Plug in.",{"text":27300,"start":14599,"end":14621},"Kommt das aber auch mit irgendwie so was Vorgefertigten?",{"text":27302,"start":14625,"end":14662},"Also dass Du sagst, okay, Du hast das ist ja so die vorher Sachen.",33,{"sentences":27305,"speaker":368,"num_words":27315,"start":14666,"end":14807},[27306,27308,27310,27311,27313],{"text":27307,"start":14666,"end":14702},"Zum Beispiel Agent Loop, es gibt ein Agent Loop Plug in, was da mit drin ist.",{"text":27309,"start":14702,"end":14737},"Und Du hast ansonsten einfach auch sone Art Plug in Marketplace und so.",{"text":1939,"start":14737,"end":14740},{"text":27312,"start":14742,"end":14757},"Und ist auf jeden Fall was Vorgefertigtes.",{"text":27314,"start":14761,"end":14807},"Die haben natürlich was mitgebracht und gibt auch irgendwie verschiedene Modi, aber da war ich jetzt gar nicht so ganz drin.",58,{"sentences":27317,"speaker":368,"num_words":26187,"start":14807,"end":14833},[27318],{"text":27319,"start":14807,"end":14833},"Aber natürlich, also und alles gibt's da grundsätzlich noch viele.",{"sentences":27321,"speaker":123,"num_words":26180,"start":14836,"end":14918},[27322,27323,27325],{"text":757,"start":14836,"end":14837},{"text":27324,"start":14837,"end":14909},"Wenn Du aber gut, dass Du mal den den Marketplace erwähnt hast, weil das ist natürlich dann sehr spannend, wenn Du auch die Community daran auch teilhaben kann.",{"text":27326,"start":14911,"end":14918},"Schon ganz gut.",{"sentences":27328,"speaker":147,"num_words":27339,"start":14920,"end":15297},[27329,27331,27333,27335,27337],{"text":27330,"start":14920,"end":14981},"Ja, auf der einen Seite würd ich mir wünschen, dass sich das durchsetzt, weil ich glaub, den architektonischen Ansatz find ich schon irgendwie cool.",{"text":27332,"start":14981,"end":15062},"Und ich kann mir sone Zukunft vorstellen, wo Du, ne, Du holst dir irgendwie den Memorylayer von Open Code und Du holst dir aber den Loop von Codex und hast Du alles nicht gesehen.",{"text":27334,"start":15064,"end":15122},"Aber gleichzeitig profitieren ja diese ganzen profitären Harnisse grade davon, dass sie halt 'n sehr gutes Pricing dir irgendwie anbieten können, ja?",{"text":27336,"start":15122,"end":15241},"Also wenn Du halt Cloud Code nutzt und dein Subscription Pricing dann nutzen kannst, ist es halt was anderes, als wenn ich jetzt DeepC Hannes nutzt und direkt im API Pricing irgendwie drinsteck und jeden Token direkt 1 zu 1 bezahlen muss so.",{"text":27338,"start":15241,"end":15297},"Da bin ich mal gespannt, weil da hab ich immer noch son bisschen Respekt vor, einfach alles direkt über die API laufen zu lassen.",147,{"sentences":27341,"speaker":368,"num_words":27351,"start":15299,"end":15518},[27342,27344,27346,27348,27350],{"text":27343,"start":15299,"end":15338},"Ja, und ich mein, der Punkt wie gesagt kommt am Ende auch dazu, so, ne.",{"text":27345,"start":15338,"end":15394},"Also ist halt die Frage, willst Du überhaupt deinen, also wie viele Leute wollen wirklich den Agent Loop und das Plug in irgendwie austauschen?",{"text":27347,"start":15397,"end":15423},"Aber ja, auf jeden Fall Pricing ist, glaub ich, 'n großer Punkt.",{"text":27349,"start":15423,"end":15515},"Ich will, mal schauen, wo's hingeht und ob sich vielleicht auch die anderen Anbieter irgendwie mehr daran orientieren und wir vielleicht son Plug in basiertes System und der Agent Duop ist austauschbar vielleicht auch woanders sehen werden.",{"text":15520,"start":15517,"end":15518},89,{"sentences":27353,"speaker":147,"num_words":178,"start":15522,"end":15556},[27354],{"text":27355,"start":15522,"end":15556},"Dennis, Du warst auch Kitesurfen, aber heute darf Fabi über Kitesurfen reden.",{"sentences":27357,"speaker":368,"num_words":27032,"start":15559,"end":15689},[27358,27360,27362,27364,27366],{"text":27359,"start":15559,"end":15572},"Ja, beziehungsweise Dennis war ja Kitesurfen.",{"text":27361,"start":15572,"end":15603},"Wir wollen ja eigentlich die ganze Zeit noch mal zusammen Kitesurfen gehen, ne.",{"text":27363,"start":15603,"end":15611},"Also zumindest Ja.",{"text":27365,"start":15613,"end":15651},"Können wir jetzt hier zusammen über Kitesurf reden, der das von Cloudflyer ist.",{"text":27367,"start":15651,"end":15689},"Das und zwar ein Browser, der nicht für Menschen gebaut ist, sondern für AI Agenten.",{"sentences":27369,"speaker":368,"num_words":27380,"start":15693,"end":16033},[27370,27372,27374,27376,27378],{"text":27371,"start":15693,"end":15742},"Und son bisschen die Problemstellung, die Cloudflyer son bisschen aufgemacht hat, ich glaub, man kennt's ja mittlerweile so, ne.",{"text":27373,"start":15742,"end":15809},"Also ich mein, wie viel Browser Use haben wir alleine in unseren Gentican ist das irgendwie drin und das Ganze natürlich auch, hat das funktionieren.",{"text":27375,"start":15809,"end":15907},"Auch Cloudflight hat das Ganze gesehen, also die haben ja ihre, ah, ich weiß grad gar nicht, Browser, glaub ich, ihr Produkt, was auch von Agenten genutzt wird, sozusagen in ihren Workers irgendwie Zugriff auf Browser zu haben.",{"text":27377,"start":15907,"end":15956},"Und was sie grundsätzlich sehen, ist halt meistens irgendwie, also der bisher Standard ist irgendwie Puppete, also irgendwas Chromium Basiertes.",{"text":27379,"start":15960,"end":16033},"Und wenn man sich das Ganze da anschaut, ist ein großes Problem, dass es halt super memtensiv ist, weil natürlich alles, was da irgendwie mitkommt, eigentlich für den Menschen gedacht ist.",133,{"sentences":27382,"speaker":368,"num_words":27393,"start":16033,"end":16294},[27383,27385,27387,27389,27391],{"text":27384,"start":16033,"end":16067},"Und memoryintensität ist sozusagen das Problem, dass es am Ende halt superteuer wird, ne.",{"text":27386,"start":16067,"end":16146},"Wenn am Ende sagt, Du willst jedem Agent da irgendwas geben, so ist es am Ende das, was am was auf der Rechnung steht, so, wenn Du irgendwie superviel Browser Run nutzt.",{"text":27388,"start":16146,"end":16215},"Und sie wurden inspiriert für Kitesurf von, da haben sie auch in ihrem Blogbeitrag son bisschen gezeigt, so wie dann die ISED zustande kam.",{"text":27390,"start":16215,"end":16267},"Da ging's wirklich so, sie waren inspiriert von obscurer, was im Grunde genommen auch schon eine ist für Agenten.",{"text":27392,"start":16270,"end":16294},"Der der der jetzt geschrieben hat, auch darauf dann reagiert.",99,{"sentences":27395,"speaker":368,"num_words":26360,"start":16294,"end":16485},[27396,27398,27400,27402,27404],{"text":27397,"start":16294,"end":16351},"Wie gesagt, er ist übrigens 16, er fühlt sich sehr geehrt, das Cloudflair sich von ihm hat inspirieren lassen.",{"text":27399,"start":16353,"end":16359},"Was ist das?",{"text":27401,"start":16359,"end":16395},"Ich glaube, 2 Unterschiede gibt's da, wenn man sich auf die Technik schaut.",{"text":27403,"start":16395,"end":16461},"Obscurer nutzt weiterhin v 8 als Engine, was natürlich auch wieder sehr viel näher an irgendwie Chromium und so was dran ist und auf jeden Fall memtensiver ist.",{"text":27405,"start":16461,"end":16485},"Und das hat das hat Cloudflyer an der Stelle verändert.",{"sentences":27407,"speaker":368,"num_words":27418,"start":16485,"end":16782},[27408,27410,27412,27414,27416],{"text":27409,"start":16485,"end":16537},"Also sie nutzen nicht v 8, sie nutzen zwar die v 8 Engine für die Worker, aber der Browserrun selbst nicht.",{"text":27411,"start":16537,"end":16619},"Der nutzt Blitz für HTML und CSS, Stylo für die CSS Engine und boa als JavaScript Engine und setzen im Grunde genommen da nicht auf v 8, was was es dazu bringt mit.",{"text":27413,"start":16619,"end":16669},"Also Geschwindigkeit, wenn man mal guckt son Page Load, da sind sie eigentlich nicht wirklich schneller als Chromium.",{"text":27415,"start":16669,"end":16693},"Wo sie dann halt besser sind, ist eben bei dem.",{"text":27417,"start":16697,"end":16782},"Also irgendwie, wenn man mal sagt, der RAM für 'n Screenshot und HTML Extraktion, haben sie fünf- bis siebenmal weniger, son Chromium Water für b für eine HTML nur 40.",112,{"sentences":27420,"speaker":368,"num_words":27431,"start":16785,"end":17221},[27421,27423,27425,27427,27429],{"text":27422,"start":16785,"end":16857},"Und das macht's natürlich auf jeden Fall superinteressant, weil sie einfach, sie nutzen jetzt innerhalb von Browser Run, das Ganze zu machen und funktioniert wohl auch schon ziemlich gut.",{"text":27424,"start":16857,"end":17026},"Und genau, der eine Punkt ist die Engine, aber der andere Punkt ist, und das macht, glaub ich, auch noch 'n bisschen produktmäßig der Unterschied obscurer, das wär to obscure, ne, also 'n bisschen, die wollen was verschleiern, hat im Endeffekt auch sonen, weil 'n bisschen ihr Ziel auch ist, so Agenten werden ja häufig von irgendwelchen Seiten einfach geblockt, so, ne.",{"text":27426,"start":17026,"end":17047},"Und sie dürfen auf irgendwelchen Konto nicht zugreifen.",{"text":27428,"start":17051,"end":17126},"Und das Ziel von Obscurals auch son bisschen, dass am Ende die Agenten doch auf alles zugreifen können und probieren halt, was zu bauen, wo sie doch am Ende da drum rumkommen.",{"text":27430,"start":17129,"end":17221},"Und Cloudflair will ja genau das nicht, weil im Grunde genommen sind sie ja, wenn man sagt, sie sind ja eigentlich die Tür, die sie verkaufen als Produkte, eigentlich die Tür zu sagen, hey, hier können Bots nicht reinkommen.",170,{"sentences":27433,"speaker":368,"num_words":27393,"start":17221,"end":17458},[27434,27436,27438,27440],{"text":27435,"start":17221,"end":17261},"Und was sie natürlich nicht wollen, ist am Ende einen Headless Browser, der das Ganze umgeht.",{"text":27437,"start":17261,"end":17295},"Das heißt, sie stellen jetzt hier 'n Produkt hin, der das Ganze natürlich nicht kann.",{"text":27439,"start":17295,"end":17317},"Also die das ist auch gar nicht ihr Ziel so.",{"text":27441,"start":17317,"end":17458},"Also der wir können weiterhin nur das, was was im Grunde genommen auch mit 'nem normalen Browser zu tun ist, sondern ihr ist also, sind auf jeden Fall die Kosten und vielleicht auch 'n bisschen proaktiv, lass mal lieber selbst was hinstellen, was gut funktioniert, bevor irgendwas anderes dahin kommt, was unser Produkt, die Tür am Ende schädigt.",{"sentences":27443,"speaker":147,"num_words":26384,"start":17461,"end":17669},[27444,27446,27448,27450],{"text":27445,"start":17461,"end":17493},"Aber wenn Du von Kosten sprichst, sprichst Du nur von Infrastrukturkosten, ne.",{"text":27447,"start":17493,"end":17553},"Also die Laufzeitkosten, die quasi bei Cloudflare anfallen für den Betrieb von dem Browser, weil Du Memory Footprint ja erwähnt hast.",{"text":27449,"start":17553,"end":17655},"Es geht jetzt nicht darum, dass der Render State oder so was, den dieser Browser erzeugt hat, irgendwie auch effektiver ist, für ein LLM zu lesen oder so, weil sie das HTML verschlanken oder unnötige CSS Regeln rausschmeißen oder so was.",{"text":27451,"start":17655,"end":17669},"Da machen sie gar nix.",{"sentences":27453,"speaker":368,"num_words":26347,"start":17672,"end":17854},[27454,27456,27458],{"text":27455,"start":17672,"end":17768},"Also da gehen sie zumindest bisher noch nicht so wirklich drauf ein, sondern also ich mein, die Sachen, wie am Ende dann auch irgendwie gegeben wird, zu HML Extractions, es werden Screenshots gemacht, können PDFs generiert werden.",{"text":27457,"start":17768,"end":17825},"Aber so das Hauptding ist wirklich, sie sagen am Ende das, was sie verkaufen, ist die Kosten, die am Ende auf deiner Rechnung stehen.",{"text":27459,"start":17825,"end":17854},"Also so, dass im Endeffekt Browser Run halt sehr viel günstiger wird dadurch.",{"sentences":27461,"speaker":147,"num_words":26484,"start":17857,"end":17900},[27462,27463],{"text":1793,"start":17857,"end":17858},{"text":27464,"start":17861,"end":17900},"Na ja, es ist so, hohe Randpreise sorgen dafür, dass Software wieder effizienter wird.",{"sentences":27466,"speaker":123,"num_words":26135,"start":17900,"end":17967},[27467,27469,27471,27472,27474],{"text":27468,"start":17900,"end":17908},"Ja, schlau.",{"text":27470,"start":17911,"end":17932},"Dennis und Fabi, ihr seid doch auch hier Kitesurfer.",{"text":17934,"start":17936,"end":17937},{"text":27473,"start":17940,"end":17963},"Kitesurfer, vor allem Kitesurfer, aber auch Arc User.",{"text":4359,"start":17963,"end":17967},{"sentences":27476,"speaker":123,"num_words":27485,"start":17969,"end":18088},[27477,27479,27480,27482,27483],{"text":27478,"start":17969,"end":17977},"Und nicht mehr, Fabi?",{"text":4359,"start":17977,"end":17979},{"text":27481,"start":17979,"end":17993},"Aber eine Zeit lang gewesen, richtig?",{"text":757,"start":17993,"end":17996},{"text":27484,"start":17999,"end":18088},"Und die Browser Company, die die ja Arc gemacht haben, die haben doch auch son zweiten Browser angekündigt, wo's Ja, Dia, genau da irgendwie, ich hab jetzt im Kopf, dass es Sehr schön.",45,{"sentences":27487,"speaker":123,"num_words":27490,"start":18092,"end":18138},[27488],{"text":27489,"start":18092,"end":18138},"Geborene ich jetzt mit, den gibt's ja und geht da auch in eine ähnliche Richtung oder ist es grade was",20,{"sentences":27492,"speaker":368,"num_words":27501,"start":18140,"end":18260},[27493,27495,27497,27499],{"text":27494,"start":18140,"end":18177},"Na ja, also Browsercomedy wurde ja von der Gläschen übernommen, ne, also Genau.",{"text":27496,"start":18179,"end":18209},"So, ich weiß gar nicht, ich hab das seitdem nicht mehr verfolgt irgendwie.",{"text":27498,"start":18209,"end":18226},"Für mich wurd das immer uninteressanter.",{"text":27500,"start":18230,"end":18260},"Und also ist ja auf jeden Fall nicht mehr aktiv weiterentwickelt, ne.",44,{"sentences":27503,"speaker":147,"num_words":347,"start":18260,"end":18265},[27504,27505],{"text":3334,"start":18260,"end":18262},{"text":2583,"start":18262,"end":18265},{"sentences":27507,"speaker":123,"num_words":347,"start":18265,"end":18270},[27508],{"text":27509,"start":18265,"end":18270},"gibt nur",{"sentences":27511,"speaker":368,"num_words":347,"start":18270,"end":18278},[27512],{"text":27513,"start":18270,"end":18278},"Sicherheit Updates.",{"sentences":27515,"speaker":123,"num_words":18570,"start":18281,"end":18291},[27516,27517],{"text":757,"start":18281,"end":18282},{"text":27518,"start":18285,"end":18291},"Okay, aber also",{"sentences":27520,"speaker":347,"num_words":26109,"start":18291,"end":18308},[27521],{"text":27522,"start":18291,"end":18308},"also nein, das war was anderes.",{"sentences":27524,"speaker":123,"num_words":347,"start":18311,"end":18315},[27525],{"text":27526,"start":18311,"end":18315},"Okay, dir",{"sentences":27528,"speaker":147,"num_words":368,"start":18315,"end":18323},[27529],{"text":27530,"start":18315,"end":18323},"aber auch nicht",{"sentences":27532,"speaker":347,"num_words":26523,"start":18326,"end":18409},[27533,27535,27537],{"text":27534,"start":18326,"end":18363},"sag ich, nee, dir sollte für den dir sollte für den Menschen der AI genau.",{"text":27536,"start":18363,"end":18390},"Und der AI nutzt der Browser sein, das Internet zu navigieren.",{"text":27538,"start":18390,"end":18409},"Okay, also Für Agents oder?",{"sentences":27540,"speaker":368,"num_words":18570,"start":18409,"end":18420},[27541],{"text":27542,"start":18409,"end":18420},"Genau, ich für Agents.",{"sentences":27544,"speaker":123,"num_words":26109,"start":18420,"end":18438},[27545],{"text":27546,"start":18420,"end":18438},"Okay, alles klar, aber die Abgrenzung.",{"sentences":27548,"speaker":147,"num_words":26313,"start":18441,"end":18522},[27549,27551,27553,27555],{"text":27550,"start":18441,"end":18447},"Wunderbar, wunderbar.",{"text":27552,"start":18450,"end":18464},"Dennis und ich sind keine Citesurfer.",{"text":27554,"start":18468,"end":18510},"Also, die Hälfte Na ja, wo wir doch 'n Halt Oh, ja, sorry.",{"text":27556,"start":18513,"end":18522},"Ihr seid auch nicht ihr",{"sentences":27558,"speaker":368,"num_words":26100,"start":18522,"end":18533},[27559],{"text":27560,"start":18522,"end":18533},"seid auch nicht Doppel d.",{"sentences":27562,"speaker":147,"num_words":26149,"start":18535,"end":18564},[27563,27564],{"text":26325,"start":18535,"end":18541},{"text":27565,"start":18545,"end":18564},"Aber wir haben beide Wie wir's mit",{"sentences":27567,"speaker":18570,"num_words":26436,"start":18567,"end":18611},[27568,27570,27571,27572,27573],{"text":27569,"start":18567,"end":18578},"mit wie Du uns?",{"text":18583,"start":18578,"end":18581},{"text":757,"start":18581,"end":18585},{"text":26675,"start":18585,"end":18590},{"text":27574,"start":18590,"end":18611},"Wie hast Du jetzt jede News Folge hier?",{"sentences":27576,"speaker":18570,"num_words":26149,"start":18611,"end":18634},[27577,27578],{"text":26325,"start":18611,"end":18616},{"text":27579,"start":18616,"end":18634},"Aber wir haben beide Wie wir mit",{"sentences":27581,"speaker":147,"num_words":27591,"start":18634,"end":18847},[27582,27584,27585,27587,27589],{"text":27583,"start":18634,"end":18644},"Blogpost gelesen.",{"text":18652,"start":18649,"end":18650},{"text":27586,"start":18650,"end":18742},"Das war den ein Blogpost von Startout Dev, das ist son, ah, ich wollt nicht Coding Bootcamp sagen, aber die machen halt schon so Coding Tutorials und und so was gegen Geld.",{"text":27588,"start":18745,"end":18784},"Und die haben einen Blogpost darüber veröffentlicht, wie wichtig oder unwichtig denn Coding Interviews in Zukunft sein werden.",{"text":27590,"start":18784,"end":18847},"Jetzt kann man denen natürlich einen gewissen Standpunkt unterstellen, weil sie halt aus dem Educational Space kommen und den Leuten Coding beibringen wollen.",76,{"sentences":27593,"speaker":147,"num_words":27604,"start":18849,"end":19045},[27594,27596,27598,27600,27602],{"text":27595,"start":18849,"end":18910},"Darum geht's aber auch gar nicht so, wo die herkommen, sondern das war für uns mal son bisschen anders, darüber nachzudenken, so ja, Coding Interviews.",{"text":27597,"start":18910,"end":18920},"Braucht man das noch?",{"text":27599,"start":18920,"end":18948},"Ist das Kunst oder kann das weg, so ungefähr, ja?",{"text":27601,"start":18948,"end":18974},"Und ich find, dieser Artikel hat son paar interessante Punkte aufgemacht.",{"text":27603,"start":18977,"end":19045},"Also zum einen sprechen Sie natürlich über Ihre eigene Erfahrung auch im Umgang mit mit großen Companys, wo Sie natürlich durch Ihre Ihre Absolventen quasi Insights bekommen, ja?",78,{"sentences":27606,"speaker":147,"num_words":27315,"start":19045,"end":19209},[27607,27609,27611],{"text":27608,"start":19045,"end":19074},"Wie läuft grade Hiring bei bei Meta, bei, bei.",{"text":27610,"start":19074,"end":19158},"Und sie berichten da schon von sehr, wie wie wie soll ich sagen, von von sehr harten Coding Interviews, wo viel Handarbeit gefragt ist ohne AI Input sozusagen, ja.",{"text":27612,"start":19161,"end":19209},"Und und das war ja, wir haben ja auch eine Folge aufgenommen, Dave und ich, die kommt am ersten September.",{"sentences":27614,"speaker":123,"num_words":368,"start":19212,"end":19219},[27615,27616,27617],{"text":3627,"start":19212,"end":19213},{"text":4760,"start":19216,"end":19217},{"text":19221,"start":19217,"end":19219},{"sentences":27619,"speaker":147,"num_words":27315,"start":19219,"end":19378},[27620,27622,27624,27626],{"text":27621,"start":19219,"end":19301},"Erster September, die Folge mit Professor Olaf Verden von der DHBW, wo wir auch son bisschen über Informatik, Studium und Ausbildung und so was gesprochen haben.",{"text":27623,"start":19301,"end":19337},"Und deswegen ist das vielleicht hier 'n cooler Übergang, Vorgeschmack dazu schon mal so.",{"text":27625,"start":19337,"end":19355},"Was wird halt irgendwie heute alles noch gebraucht so?",{"text":27627,"start":19355,"end":19378},"Dennis, was war dein erster Takeaway von dem Artikel?",{"sentences":27629,"speaker":347,"num_words":27640,"start":19381,"end":19777},[27630,27632,27634,27636,27638],{"text":27631,"start":19381,"end":19479},"Also was ich da vielleicht noch mal kurz herausstellen möchte, weil Sie kritisieren ja son bisschen oder Sie sagen, es gibt diese es gibt diesen Unterschied zwischen dem, was man so auf Social Media sieht und was irgendwie überall gepostet wird.",{"text":27633,"start":19479,"end":19518},"Und da steht halt so, ne, ja, okay, Coding ist irgendwie tot und Du brauchst das nicht mehr.",{"text":27635,"start":19521,"end":19591},"Und ihrer gefühlten Realität, zumindest was den aktuellen Jobmarkt angeht, dass es dort in den Interviews sogar vielleicht eher mehr gefragt ist, als es in der Vergangenheit war, ne.",{"text":27637,"start":19591,"end":19617},"Also erst mal diese diese Diskrepanz irgendwie son bisschen darzustellen.",{"text":27639,"start":19620,"end":19777},"Und ich muss ganz ehrlich sagen, ich ich fand den super supergut, weil er eigentlich all so, also ich geh da komplett mit so, mit all den Takes, die irgendwie da sind, dass man am Ende so zusammengefasst, eigentlich hat sich nicht so wahnsinnig viel bis jetzt geändert an der dem Typ und der Art von Leuten, die man gerne einstellen möchte.",160,{"sentences":27642,"speaker":347,"num_words":27649,"start":19780,"end":19935},[27643,27645,27647],{"text":27644,"start":19780,"end":19870},"Weil man irgendwie die gleichen Eigenschaften, die halt 'n Entwickler vorher ausgemacht haben und die gleichen Kenntnisse, die man auch vorher fürs Coding gebraucht hat, ähnlich sind, jetzt im Moment oder jetzt auch zukünftig Produkte umzusetzen.",{"text":27646,"start":19874,"end":19924},"So und das heißt, ne, diese diese Abstraktionsebene, die wir uns kümmern, dass die sich 'n bisschen verschoben hat.",{"text":27648,"start":19926,"end":19935},"Aber ja, das Aber",59,{"sentences":27651,"speaker":368,"num_words":27662,"start":19935,"end":20311},[27652,27654,27656,27658,27660],{"text":27653,"start":19935,"end":20105},"ich find's trotzdem, ich hab die Folge ja noch nicht gehört, die aufgenommen noch mal mit dem ersten September, aber trotzdem denk ich, ja, das kannst Du vielleicht jetzt grade dann noch machen, diese Coding Interviews, weil Du halt auch noch die Leute einschätzen und Du jetzt nicht die Juniors einstellst, die im Grunde genommen das Handwerk gelernt haben und das ist immer noch ein guter Indikator, die richtigen Leute einzustellen.",{"text":27655,"start":20105,"end":20196},"So, aber wenn Du jetzt trotzdem mal irgendwie 5 10 Jahre in die Zukunft blickst, es hat trotzdem noch die Frage, warum lernst Du denn dann das Handwerk nur, zu beweisen, dass Du dieser Typus bist?",{"text":27657,"start":20196,"end":20238},"Oder ist es am Ende wirklich noch das, was Du brauchst und was man dann auch irgendwie nachfragt?",{"text":27659,"start":20238,"end":20267},"Also es, wie wie also haben Sie dazu irgendwie Stellung bezogen?",{"text":27661,"start":20267,"end":20311},"Ist das ein Status quo Ding so und Sie glauben nicht, dass es in Zukunft so sein wird?",154,{"sentences":27664,"speaker":368,"num_words":18570,"start":20311,"end":20322},[27665],{"text":27666,"start":20311,"end":20322},"Also ich geh, ja,",{"sentences":27668,"speaker":347,"num_words":26109,"start":20322,"end":20337},[27669],{"text":27670,"start":20322,"end":20337},"mir ist auch immer wieder auch.",{"sentences":27672,"speaker":147,"num_words":27683,"start":20337,"end":20667},[27673,27675,27677,27679,27681],{"text":27674,"start":20337,"end":20451},"Das war ein interessanter Teil von dem Artikel, über den ich auch gestolpert bin, Fabio, weil das, was Du sagst, versuchen Sie in dem Blogpost son bisschen abzufrühstücken mit wie, ja, the Interview, was never about, righting code so, ja?",{"text":27676,"start":20451,"end":20553},"Kann man schon mal mit Vorsicht genießen son Satz, aber sie sagen halt, na ja, die eigentliche Aufgabe des Interviews, ne, ist ja nicht irgendwie zu gucken, ob Du jetzt gut, weiß ich nicht, type Script schreiben kannst oder so.",{"text":27678,"start":20553,"end":20604},"Deshalb ist ja in den meisten Coding Interviews auch vollkommen egal, in welcher Sprache Du schreibst, so, ja.",{"text":27680,"start":20607,"end":20641},"Sondern es geht halt darum, dein dein dein Denkprozess quasi zu erleben, ja.",{"text":27682,"start":20641,"end":20667},"Irgendwie zu sehen, okay, wie näherst Du dich der Lösung?",121,{"sentences":27685,"speaker":147,"num_words":27696,"start":20667,"end":20776},[27686,27688,27690,27692,27694],{"text":27687,"start":20667,"end":20682},"Wie teilst Du das Problem auf?",{"text":27689,"start":20682,"end":20696},"Wie findest Du irgendwie kleine Schritte?",{"text":27691,"start":20696,"end":20710},"Wie gehst Du da ran?",{"text":27693,"start":20710,"end":20731},"Wie iterierst Du darüber et cetera, et cetera?",{"text":27695,"start":20734,"end":20776},"Und da hab ich mir auch gedacht so, ja, das ist ja jetzt grade auch noch praktikabel, ja?",43,{"sentences":27698,"speaker":147,"num_words":27709,"start":20776,"end":21008},[27699,27701,27703,27705,27707],{"text":27700,"start":20776,"end":20829},"Also selbst, ob ich jetzt AI nutz oder nicht, ich muss ja irgendwie meistens selber noch irgendwann das das Problem parsen oder so, ja.",{"text":27702,"start":20831,"end":20879},"Aber gleichzeitig gibt's ja schon immer mehr Use Cases, immer mehr Menschen, die auch diesen Teil irgendwie auslagern an AI, ja.",{"text":27704,"start":20879,"end":20966},"Wo wo quasi selbst so das das Zerschneiden von dem Problem irgendwie schon weggegeben wird, weil Du halt deinem Model nur sagst, ja, das ist das Feature, das ich haben möchte, so, das sind meine Anforderungen.",{"text":27706,"start":20970,"end":20977},"Mach mal, so.",{"text":27708,"start":20977,"end":21008},"Und dann selbst dieser vorgelagerte Teil ja quasi schon aus der Hand gegeben wird.",98,{"sentences":27711,"speaker":147,"num_words":26890,"start":21008,"end":21079},[27712],{"text":27713,"start":21008,"end":21079},"Und ich frag dich, okay, wenn Du selbst das nicht mehr beobachtest, weil Du das aus der Hand gibst, dann wird's echt langsam schwierig mit diesem Interviewstil, ne?",{"sentences":27715,"speaker":368,"num_words":27351,"start":21082,"end":21297},[27716,27718,27720,27722,27724],{"text":27717,"start":21082,"end":21145},"Ja gut, aber wenn Du auf dem Niveau bist, dann ist ja so die Frage, ob Du dann halt auch noch den gleichen Typus suchst, so, ne.",{"text":27719,"start":21145,"end":21183},"Also ich glaub, dann verändert sich halt auch die die Art von Leute, die Du dafür suchst.",{"text":27721,"start":21183,"end":21245},"Dann suchst Du halt auch nicht mehr den, den die Entwickler zumindest mal in der breiten Masse siehst, den Du irgendwie damals gesucht hast, so.",{"text":27723,"start":21245,"end":21277},"Und dann ist das vielleicht auch nicht mehr das Skill, nachdem Du fragst.",{"text":27725,"start":21280,"end":21297},"Also spätestens dann wird sich's ja verändern.",{"sentences":27727,"speaker":368,"num_words":27732,"start":21300,"end":21460},[27728,27730],{"text":27729,"start":21300,"end":21398},"Ich glaub, solang solang noch wahrscheinlich, Dennis, Du sagst, so die die die gleiche Art von Typ suche ich, an meinem Team zu arbeiten, wird's vielleicht auch noch da sein, trotzdem glaub ich irgendwie in 'n paar Jahren, so.",{"text":27731,"start":21398,"end":21460},"Ich mein, grade für Absolventen oder für Studienanfänger, warum sollten die's denn noch so lernen, wenn's wirklich nur ist, den Beweis anzutreten?",61,{"sentences":27734,"speaker":347,"num_words":26429,"start":21464,"end":21668},[27735,27737,27739],{"text":27736,"start":21464,"end":21566},"Ja, nee, klar, das ist ja auch nicht, also das war ja nicht so richtig die Fragestellung von von dem Artikel, wo es eher so tatsächlich den Status quo der Jobinterviews gibt und son bisschen dem entgegenzuwirken, dass man's jetzt nicht mehr braucht.",{"text":27738,"start":21566,"end":21573},"Und Ja.",{"text":27740,"start":21575,"end":21668},"Da fand ich auch spannend, weil sie halt, ne, auch wirklich bei Anthropic und bei OpenAI, also grade die AI Labs sind diejenigen, die ohne AI Coding Challenges stellen und man Probleme lösen muss so.",{"sentences":27742,"speaker":147,"num_words":123,"start":21668,"end":21671},[27743],{"text":757,"start":21668,"end":21671},{"sentences":27745,"speaker":347,"num_words":27752,"start":21674,"end":21929},[27746,27748,27750],{"text":27747,"start":21674,"end":21791},"Und aber ich bin komplett bei dir, deswegen bin ich auch gespannt auf die Folge, so was ihr da diskutiert habt zu zur Lehre, weil das ist ja sonst mein Take, dass ich sage, na ja, ich würde im Moment jetzt keinem mehr empfehlen, Informatik zu studieren so, ne.",{"text":27749,"start":21794,"end":21866},"Außer die Studiengänge passen sich vielleicht schnell genug an und man lernt irgendwie anderes Zeug, aber halt das, was wir als Informatik studiert haben, würd ich halt heute nicht mehr studieren.",{"text":27751,"start":21869,"end":21929},"Und grade, wenn wir mit diesem Scope dann irgendwie in in Jahren gucken, da würd ich sagen, na ja, irgendwie wird es doch schon anders sein.",106,{"sentences":27754,"speaker":147,"num_words":26396,"start":21931,"end":21981},[27755],{"text":27756,"start":21931,"end":21981},"Aber Dennis, ich bin darüber gestolpert, dass Du vorhin gesagt hast, na ja, so viel hat sich irgendwie ja doch gar nicht geändert.",{"sentences":27758,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":21985,"end":21989},[27759,27760],{"text":757,"start":21985,"end":21986},{"text":1071,"start":21986,"end":21989},{"sentences":27762,"speaker":147,"num_words":27501,"start":21989,"end":22106},[27763,27764,27766,27768],{"text":4465,"start":21989,"end":21991},{"text":27765,"start":21995,"end":22057},"Und gleichzeitig haben wir doch vor 'n paar, oh Gott, Wochen ist es, glaub ich, schon her, ja, auch unsere eigenen Stellenanzeigen son bisschen angepasst, ne.",{"text":27767,"start":22057,"end":22086},"Was so Wording und und Framing und so was angehen.",{"text":27769,"start":22086,"end":22106},"Da dacht ich mir, okay, also wie",{"sentences":27771,"speaker":347,"num_words":368,"start":22106,"end":22116},[27772],{"text":27773,"start":22106,"end":22116},"wie Absolut, ja.",{"sentences":27775,"speaker":147,"num_words":26253,"start":22118,"end":22162},[27776],{"text":27777,"start":22118,"end":22162},"Passt das zusammen so, wenn Anforderungen sich nicht ändern, aber trotzdem, dass dass Framing sich so verschiebt?",{"sentences":27779,"speaker":347,"num_words":27790,"start":22165,"end":22445},[27780,27782,27784,27786,27788],{"text":27781,"start":22165,"end":22241},"Also ich sag, eigentlich ist nur meine Aussage, ich glaub, so so vom vom Typus Mensch irgendwie, wenn man das so generalisieren kann, hat sich vielleicht nicht so viel verändert.",{"text":27783,"start":22241,"end":22323},"Ja, wir haben unsere Stellenausschreibung angepasst und ja, wir haben auch unseren Bewerbungsprozess angepasst und das erstmalig seit irgendwie gefühlt, weiß ich nicht, 15 Jahren, wo wir immer die gleichen Aufgaben hatten, ne.",{"text":27785,"start":22323,"end":22342},"Wir haben jetzt andere Aufgaben, die wir stellen.",{"text":27787,"start":22344,"end":22427},"Wir haben, also wir wir machen tatsächlich eine Aufgabe, wo wir in den letzten Monaten gesagt haben, hey, da kannst Du AI nutzen, weil wir wollen das, was Du im Alltag nutzt, auch irgendwie das Ziel nutzen kannst.",{"text":27789,"start":22427,"end":22445},"Die machen wir jetzt auch strikt ohne AI.",117,{"sentences":27792,"speaker":347,"num_words":26447,"start":22445,"end":22478},[27793],{"text":27794,"start":22445,"end":22478},"Also das heißt, wir haben auch eine harte sozusagen ohne ohne Unterstützung Aufgabe.",{"sentences":27796,"speaker":123,"num_words":18570,"start":22482,"end":22492},[27797,27799],{"text":27798,"start":22482,"end":22486},"Mit Internet.",{"text":27800,"start":22486,"end":22492},"Dafür dann",{"sentences":27802,"speaker":347,"num_words":26109,"start":22492,"end":22507},[27803,27805],{"text":27804,"start":22492,"end":22502},"aber mit Internet, ja.",{"text":27806,"start":22502,"end":22507},"Ja, auch",{"sentences":27808,"speaker":123,"num_words":368,"start":22507,"end":22516},[27809],{"text":27810,"start":22507,"end":22516},"geht das los.",{"sentences":27812,"speaker":347,"num_words":26236,"start":22520,"end":22607},[27813,27815],{"text":27814,"start":22520,"end":22563},"Und auf der anderen Seite dann 2 Aufgaben, wo es wo wir gucken wollen, wie man mit AI umgeht.",{"text":27816,"start":22563,"end":22607},"Das heißt, man hat 2 unterschiedliche Aufgabenstellungen zu AI und genau, wir gucken eben den Umgang über zu.",{"sentences":27818,"speaker":147,"num_words":27829,"start":22609,"end":22909},[27819,27821,27823,27825,27827],{"text":27820,"start":22609,"end":22650},"Und die Aufgaben, die es bei uns ohne AI zu lösen gibt, ohne jetzt konkret zu sagen Ja.",{"text":27822,"start":22653,"end":22664},"Vielleicht was was ist da so?",{"text":27824,"start":22666,"end":22825},"Aber mich hat sehr überrascht in dem Blogpost, wie low levelig irgendwie diese Beispiele von OpenAI und 'n Tropic irgendwie waren, wo's dann hieß, na ja, bau halt son oder so was mal von Hand, was ja so son klassisches Whiteboard Coding Ding eigentlich ist, ja, wo man eigentlich denken würde, oh Gott, das ist ja schon schon richtig alt irgendwie, ja.",{"text":27826,"start":22829,"end":22891},"Sind wir da so auch auf diesem low leveligen Thema unterwegs oder ist das eher son sone high levelige Aufgabe, die wir ohne AI gelöst sehen wollen?",{"text":27828,"start":22894,"end":22909},"Und warum vielleicht noch ganz nicht verstanden?",120,{"sentences":27831,"speaker":347,"num_words":27841,"start":22913,"end":23109},[27832,27834,27835,27837,27839],{"text":27833,"start":22913,"end":22999},"Ja, also ich glaub, die eine Aufgabe, die wir jetzt nicht mehr im Programm haben, von daher können wir sie wahrscheinlich nennen, das ist das, finde das Minimum mit einem aus Zahlen, so.",{"text":1939,"start":23001,"end":23002},{"text":27836,"start":23004,"end":23042},"Ne, das ist ja, also hört sich erst mal sehr, also sehr simpel an das Ganze.",{"text":27838,"start":23045,"end":23079},"Und es ist trotzdem, ich find es superspannend über die letzten 10 Jahre, Ja.",{"text":27840,"start":23081,"end":23109},"Wie viel man aus so 1 einfachen Aufgabe irgendwie rauslesen kann.",75,{"sentences":27843,"speaker":347,"num_words":26198,"start":23109,"end":23278},[27844,27846,27848,27850],{"text":27845,"start":23109,"end":23145},"Weil die Implementierungen superunterschiedlich sind, aber weil auch die Diskussionen darüber superunterschiedlich sind.",{"text":27847,"start":23145,"end":23248},"Und es ist eine so, ein so einfaches Ding und trotzdem kannst Du daran wahnsinnig viel so im Umgang damit, wie spricht man darüber, wie spricht man über Verbesserungssachen und so weiter sprechen kannst, obwohl es so augenscheinlich so so einfach ist.",{"text":27849,"start":23250,"end":23272},"Und ja, also genau, die sind auch eher so.",{"text":27851,"start":23274,"end":23278},"Low levelig.",{"sentences":27853,"speaker":147,"num_words":26484,"start":23282,"end":23323},[27854,27855,27857,27858],{"text":757,"start":23282,"end":23283},{"text":27856,"start":23287,"end":23313},"Und die AI Aufgaben sind dann aber entsprechend high leveligere Sachen?",{"text":1939,"start":23316,"end":23317},{"text":27859,"start":23320,"end":23323},"Da hast",{"sentences":27861,"speaker":347,"num_words":26803,"start":23323,"end":23539},[27862,27864,27866,27868,27870],{"text":27863,"start":23323,"end":23435},"Du letztendlich 'n einen Projekt und ich glaub, das stand auch son bisschen im Artikel, ne, wo's son bisschen eher darum geht, dann zu zu gucken, wie gehst Du halt mit sonem Projektkontext und AI Wie, ne, kontrollierst Du das, was AI dir irgendwie vorschlägt?",{"text":27865,"start":23435,"end":23470},"Das heißt, Du hast einfach, ne, wie kommst Du in eine Code Base rein?",{"text":27867,"start":23470,"end":23499},"Wie kannst Du da mit AI dir schnell 'n Überblick verschaffen?",{"text":27869,"start":23499,"end":23522},"Wie sagst einfach, ja komm, ist mir alles egal.",{"text":27871,"start":23522,"end":23539},"Wie sehr denkst Du drüber nach, ne?",{"sentences":27873,"speaker":347,"num_words":26890,"start":23541,"end":23604},[27874,27876,27877],{"text":27875,"start":23541,"end":23598},"Weil da dann Fragestellungen sind, die vielleicht von AI eher so beantwortet werden, aber es eigentlich nicht Sinn macht in dem Kontext so, der da ist.",{"text":3334,"start":23600,"end":23601},{"text":23605,"start":23603,"end":23604},{"sentences":27879,"speaker":147,"num_words":26180,"start":23607,"end":23694},[27880,27882,27884,27886,27888],{"text":27881,"start":23607,"end":23611},"Ja, superspannend.",{"text":27883,"start":23611,"end":23657},"Ich musste ja, glaub ich, in meinem Leben nur, warum hab ich überhaupt mal son Coding Interview gemacht?",{"text":27885,"start":23660,"end":23665},"Keine Ahnung.",{"text":27887,"start":23668,"end":23672},"Also spannend.",{"text":27889,"start":23672,"end":23694},"So als als Teilnehmer, weiß grad gar nicht.",{"sentences":27891,"speaker":147,"num_words":123,"start":23694,"end":23696},[27892],{"text":23698,"start":23694,"end":23696},{"sentences":27894,"speaker":368,"num_words":26100,"start":23696,"end":23710},[27895,27897],{"text":27896,"start":23696,"end":23703},"Ich nicht.",{"text":27898,"start":23703,"end":23710},"Ich find das",{"sentences":27900,"speaker":147,"num_words":27907,"start":23712,"end":23812},[27901,27903,27905],{"text":27902,"start":23712,"end":23738},"Ja, also für hier auf alle Fälle auch nicht so, ja?",{"text":27904,"start":23738,"end":23785},"Also bei bei Lotung bin ich durch die Tür gekommen, ohne dass 1 gesehen hat, wie ich Coach schreibe.",{"text":27906,"start":23785,"end":23812},"Ob das jetzt richtig oder falsch war, lass doch mal dahingestellt.",41,{"sentences":27909,"speaker":347,"num_words":26149,"start":23816,"end":23840},[27910,27911],{"text":757,"start":23816,"end":23817},{"text":27912,"start":23820,"end":23840},"Nein, das ist, ja, auf jeden Fall spannend.",{"sentences":27914,"speaker":147,"num_words":26436,"start":23842,"end":23884},[27915,27917],{"text":27916,"start":23842,"end":23857},"Fabi guckt immer noch son bisschen skeptisch.",{"text":27918,"start":23857,"end":23884},"Fabi glaubt, dass diese Colleing Interviews alle sterben müssen.",{"sentences":27920,"speaker":368,"num_words":27930,"start":23889,"end":24209},[27921,27922,27924,27926,27928],{"text":23892,"start":23889,"end":23890},{"text":27923,"start":23894,"end":23928},"Ich ich oder andersrum gesagt, ich glaub, sie werden irgendwann sie werden irgendwann sterben, so.",{"text":27925,"start":23928,"end":23994},"Und wenn wir noch irgendwie und da ist die Frage, auf welche Ebene man halt geht, also ich glaub, ich diese Fragestellung find ich immer noch interessant.",{"text":27927,"start":23994,"end":24190},"Ist halt dann hier die Frage, bleibt man dann komplett auf Pseudocode oder so was oder kriegen wir am Ende irgendwie, ich weiß nicht, hatten wir letztens so irgendwie im Blogpost die Frage, ob am Ende Agenten überhaupt noch die Codingsprache nutzen, die wir jetzt grade nutzen oder machen Sie irgendwas Eigenes und nehmen Sie dann irgendein Format, wo wirklich nur noch in, keine Ahnung, in 'nem, eigentlich auch nur im Textformat irgendwie irgendwelche Blöcke beschrieben würden.",{"text":27929,"start":24190,"end":24209},"Also wahrscheinlich wird irgendwas in die Richtung gehen.",128,{"sentences":27932,"speaker":368,"num_words":26087,"start":24209,"end":24314},[27933,27935,27937],{"text":27934,"start":24209,"end":24243},"Irgendwie Problemverständnis ja weiterhin das, was wir was man irgendwie rausfinden will.",{"text":27936,"start":24243,"end":24271},"Ich glaub, kann man vorstellen, dass das auch noch sehr lange halten wird.",{"text":27938,"start":24273,"end":24314},"Ich glaub, eher die Frage, wie man ihr Problemverständnis raus, wenn's Codeing am Ende nicht mehr ist.",{"sentences":27940,"speaker":347,"num_words":27501,"start":24316,"end":24416},[27941,27943,27945],{"text":27942,"start":24316,"end":24359},"Ja, und ich finde, wir, also bei all diesen Sachen müssen halt irgendwie, also wir können nicht so langfristig denken.",{"text":27944,"start":24359,"end":24387},"Wir müssen halt gucken, wie der aktuelle Stand ist und so, ne.",{"text":27946,"start":24387,"end":24416},"Also das ist halt einfach, keine Ahnung, wie's in dem Jahr aussieht.",{"sentences":27948,"speaker":123,"num_words":26298,"start":24419,"end":24515},[27949,27951,27953],{"text":27950,"start":24419,"end":24480},"Aber ich aber ich erinner mich noch, weil wir waren ja, wir hatten ja eine größere Diskussion bezüglich auch dieser Aufgabe, dieser Programmieraufgabe, Ja.",{"text":27952,"start":24482,"end":24494},"Ob wir die überhaupt noch stellen.",{"text":27954,"start":24494,"end":24515},"Also wir haben die erst vor 'nem Monat nur",{"sentences":27956,"speaker":147,"num_words":347,"start":24515,"end":24521},[27957],{"text":27958,"start":24515,"end":24521},"so, haben",{"sentences":27960,"speaker":123,"num_words":27971,"start":24521,"end":24779},[27961,27963,27965,27967,27969],{"text":27962,"start":24521,"end":24541},"wir die hier, glaub ich, erneuert für das Interview.",{"text":27964,"start":24541,"end":24603},"Und da haben wir uns ja auch gestellt, boah, oh, ist das eigentlich noch am Zahn der Zeit, so einfach so Coding Aufgaben zu stellen?",{"text":27966,"start":24606,"end":24694},"Und unser Argument war auch an der Stelle, wie der Artikel ja, glaub ich, auch gesagt hat, dass ich das verstanden habe so, das ist für uns irgendwie 'n sehr guter Proxy dafür, zu schauen, wie so generell ist.",{"text":27968,"start":24694,"end":24720},"So wie geht eine Person einfach an das Problem ran?",{"text":27970,"start":24720,"end":24779},"Und wenn wir dafür, glaub ich, eine 1 bessere Form finden, das zu erkennen, ich glaub, dann wird es auch da abgelöst an der Stelle.",108,{"sentences":27973,"speaker":368,"num_words":347,"start":24779,"end":24785},[27974],{"text":27975,"start":24779,"end":24785},"Aber es",{"sentences":27977,"speaker":147,"num_words":347,"start":24785,"end":24791},[27978],{"text":27979,"start":24785,"end":24791},"halt, also",{"sentences":27981,"speaker":123,"num_words":26447,"start":24791,"end":24822},[27982],{"text":27983,"start":24791,"end":24822},"es dient halt trotzdem gut zu sehen, wie wie ist so einfach vorhanden.",{"sentences":27985,"speaker":347,"num_words":27683,"start":24822,"end":25114},[27986,27988,27990,27992],{"text":27987,"start":24822,"end":24830},"Das ist richtig.",{"text":27989,"start":24830,"end":24988},"Und dann muss man aber auch bei uns aktuell noch sagen, aktuell, also jetzt wirklich heute, heute so, August, würden wir halt wirklich nicht jemanden einstellen wollen für den Bereich, der halt diesen Coding Skill nicht kann, weil wir noch nicht in allen Teams irgendwie auf dem Trip sind und sagen, okay, es ist 100 Prozent agentlich und wir gucken gar nicht mehr rein.",{"text":27991,"start":24988,"end":25055},"Wir machen nur außenrum irgendwelche Produktetscheidungen, gucken, dass es, ne, dass dass die Agenten irgendwie da unterwegs sind und wir eben in unserem Team flexibel einsetzbar sein wollen.",{"text":27993,"start":25055,"end":25114},"Das heißt, ne, ja, das da sind wir einfach statt heute nicht so, aber weiß ich nicht, in 6 Monaten kann ich mir das anders vorstellen.",{"sentences":27995,"speaker":147,"num_words":26313,"start":25116,"end":25190},[27996,27997,27999],{"text":757,"start":25116,"end":25117},{"text":27998,"start":25120,"end":25150},"Also ich war einfach nur überrascht, dass Dennis son Array Sorting abfeiert.",{"text":28000,"start":25154,"end":25190},"Ich hätte ich hätte viel skeptischer da einsortiert, aber ist ja auch cool.",{"sentences":28002,"speaker":347,"num_words":26100,"start":25193,"end":25211},[28003,28005],{"text":28004,"start":25193,"end":25207},"Tja, guck, siehste mal.",{"text":3559,"start":25210,"end":25211},{"sentences":28007,"speaker":147,"num_words":26523,"start":25213,"end":25289},[28008,28010],{"text":28009,"start":25213,"end":25250},"Damit sind wir durch für diese Woche, bleiben knapp unter der 15 Minuten Marke hier.",{"text":28011,"start":25252,"end":25289},"Darf mich verabschieden für die nächsten 3 Wochen, da dürft ihr die News ohne mich machen.",{"sentences":28013,"speaker":347,"num_words":347,"start":25291,"end":25295},[28014],{"text":28015,"start":25291,"end":25295},"Aber wir",{"sentences":28017,"speaker":147,"num_words":28025,"start":25295,"end":25410},[28018,28020,28022,28024],{"text":28019,"start":25295,"end":25361},"haben ja schon angekündigt, erster September der Deep Dive den Dave nicht aufgenommen haben und in der Woche danach das Special, was Fabio und ich aufgenommen haben.",{"text":28021,"start":25361,"end":25375},"Ich hatte so einen Spaß dabei.",{"text":28023,"start":25375,"end":25408},"Ich hoffe Fabi auch, auch wenn er zwischendurch son bisschen verloren ausgesehen hat.",{"text":449,"start":25408,"end":25410},47,{"sentences":28027,"speaker":368,"num_words":26506,"start":25410,"end":25461},[28028,28030],{"text":28029,"start":25410,"end":25425},"Spaß hatte ich auf jeden Fall.",{"text":28031,"start":25425,"end":25461},"Wie auch viel Kopfkratzen und viel, ich hab ihm viel gewundert, aber",{"sentences":28033,"speaker":147,"num_words":347,"start":25463,"end":25468},[28034],{"text":28035,"start":25463,"end":25468},"Was ist",{"sentences":28037,"speaker":347,"num_words":368,"start":25468,"end":25475},[28038],{"text":28039,"start":25468,"end":25475},"da das Thema?",{"sentences":28041,"speaker":147,"num_words":26122,"start":25475,"end":25593},[28042,28044,28046,28048],{"text":28043,"start":25475,"end":25540},"Die mal das 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